Utter newbie just doesn't understand. Can you please explain to me why this can't be?

[Malogato]

What type of speakers are you running now???

I've got the yamaha HTIB yht-150 system
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/HTIB/HTIB_150_1.htm
HTR-5730 receiver, + the 5.1 speaker package that comes with it.

I've also got some big, pioneers that have no model # on them anywhere that I can find. I get the "more sound" from them at same "volume" setting on my receiver. I just wanted to augment THEM with the "included" speakers I got from yamaha.

If I completely replace the yamaha included speaker package with these pioneers, I get more "volume" at the same setting on the receiver. i.e. with set a (silver, came with the receiver) at -25dB on the receiver I get.. X amount of sound.. when I switch to the second, "larger" speakers, I get X + 20% amount of sound.
The "unknown model" pioneers have more volume at the same "power" level.



I mean, isn't what I'm trying to do similair to http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/YamahaYSP-1DigitalSoundProjector1.php the yamaha sound "bar" that has all the speakers in the same place, and has like, 40 of them?

and I believe that item is $1500.00

 

[ducker]

Again.. I'm not a pro... but the speakers that came with that system are what I think could be called Economy speakers: All speakers in this system are 6ohms, not 8.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/NS-AP1500.pdf

Center:
Sensitivity of 83db
Satalites:
Sensitivity of 79db

Seems like if you're going to use your own speakers, you could of saved yourself $100 or so and just bought the receiver.

 

[Malogato]

Again.. I'm not a pro... but the speakers that came with that system are what I think could be called Economy speakers: All speakers in this system are 6ohms, not 8.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/customer/manuals/PDFs/NS-AP1500.pdf

Center:
Sensitivity of 83db
Satalites:
Sensitivity of 79db

Seems like if you're going to use your own speakers, you could of saved yourself $100 or so and just bought the receiver.

True, 'cept I didn't have those speakers at the time.. C'est la vie.
I guess I'll just switch over to the new speakers and shut up.

 

[markw]

Jeez... Those sensitivity figures suck, plain and simple.

Center: Sensitivity of 83db
Satalites: Sensitivity of 79db

Those are some Gawd awful inefficient speakers. Looks like that might have something to do witl a lack of satisfying volume or sound.

If I were you, I'd be looking into more efficient speakers. They aren't hard to come by or expensive even. Check out Athena, Klipsch or virtually any other brand out there.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Do you know why those speakers are rated at those low levels? So you don't blow them. Your receiver, although a very economical model, is way more than those speakers need. You would have been better off buying a separate receiver and then a 5.1 surround setup with larger speakers, say, Athena's like mentioned above. Klipsch and Cerwin Vega are very efficient also. Those HTIB systems are fine for people not wanting to dive into A/V and upgrade. You'll find your receiver sounds better with the Pioneers up to a point, then will crap out real quick if turned up much more. Efficiency is everything when it comes to speakers. Look for 8 ohm and 94+ db ratings, and you won't have to worry about receiver output.

 

[zumbo]

I have to do the car thing. I have a different take on it.

One Ford Escort will not outrun the Mercedes, or Porsche!

So, if you tie two Ford Escorts together, are they going to outrun the other cars? NOT! You just have twice the amount of junk.

If you want loud, Cerwin Vega is the answer. If you want quality sound, you know the answer. $$$

 

[Mega2000]

toss everything and get a bose wave radio. the controler is the size of a credit card

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

What good is a McLaren F1 if you can't take advantage of it's power? In other words, for the receiver he has, he wouldn't drop $2500 into top of the line Paradigms. He could spend $800 on Athena's, or sell his HTIB on ebay and start out with some higher end equipment, depending on his budget. I'm guessing he's in his late teens or early 20's, not making a ton of cash, and wanting the best for his dollar. Sometimes I think we recommend things way over and above what people can actually afford. $$$ can afford the best, but we should recommend based on budgets also. Cerwin Vega does play loud, but it also plays great for rock, house, and rap. A solid frat speaker for weekend parties. And being efficient, these young guys don't have to cough up $750 for a receiver when a $350 model will do just fine.

 

[zumbo]

Yep. The Athenas will have a better sound quality for the $. And, the Cerwins will be loud and hammer. Just depends on what you want. In my teenage years, I found Cerwin Vega to be my answer. I still have them today. Thay are stamped 1985. Tough, Tough, Tough.

 

[Malogato]

What good is a McLaren F1 if you can't take advantage of it's power?

Yep...or appreciate it's power. - Since I can't drive anywhere at 250 miles per hour, nor do I need 0 to 60 in 3 seconds, when 0 to 60 in 12 seconds and a top speed of 85 mph (which is all the "escort" can do) suits me just fine.

In other words, for the receiver he has, he wouldn't drop $2500 into top of the line Paradigms.

Exactly. Additionally, the application I am using this for doesn't merit that much expense.

He could spend $800 on Athena's, or sell his HTIB on ebay and start out with some higher end equipment, depending on his budget.

Which is minimal, as you guess below.

Sometimes I think we recommend things way over and above what people can actually afford.

Correct. I tried shopping at klipsch, and based on what prior posters said "sensitivity rating at 94 or higher" and adding in the concept "must be 100 watts or better" I would need to spend $1,000 on the speakers before even picking a subwoofer. [RC-35, RB-35, RB-35, RS-35, RS-35]

$$$ can afford the best, but we should recommend based on budgets also.

Even if I could afford a $4500 receiver like the yamaha RX-Z9, I don't think I'd want to spend that sort of money. I just can't convince myself that I need to spend THAT much money [or even say, $700 for a receiver] - I'm just not as .... "extreme" as some of the people here.. see my thread title.. AudioPhyte : Utter Newbie.. I'm not really an audiophile. I can't tell the difference between 128Kbps MP3 cbr and real CD-audio.
I even have some "good" headphones that should be able to tell me the difference [grado's and sennheiser's] but, I just can't tell. Some of the audiophiles here, I am sure, could CERTAINLY tell the difference between mp3 and "Real" uncompressed audio. - This is just so you realize where I am in the audiophile spectrum.

Cerwin Vega does play loud, but it also plays great for rock, house, and rap. A solid frat speaker for weekend parties. And being efficient, these young guys don't have to cough up $750 for a receiver when a $350 model will do just fine.

I'm basically looking for speakers that are going to 1) let me enjoy my music collection all over the house. 2) Enjoy dvd movies like I was really 'immersed' in them.. - My current rig gives me 'sufficient' volume now... But I don't get the sound pressure to actually .. "feel the sound" - I hear it.. but, I think some of you know what I mean about feeling the sound waves like, bounce off your chest.. you can get so much sound pressure, your body actually feels the vibrations.. That's the level of OOMPH I am looking for... but, mainly, the reason I want more "volume" is for #1

I have to do the car thing. I have a different take on it.

One Ford Escort will not outrun the Mercedes, or Porsche!

Depends on which escort versus which mercedes...

 

[zumbo]

Find Cerwin Vega here.

I think, given all of your responses, this is your best option.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

toss everything and get a bose wave radio. the controler is the size of a credit card

A really thick credit card.


Anyway, I suggest attempting to wire two ot three generic receivers together. If you survive your imminent electrocution, you will apply this life-lesson to your futre needs, and probably start down the long road of becoming a pofessional electrical engineer. Then you can post pictures on the forum to show all of us what an electrical fire looks like (Hint: it'll burn all the hair off your arms upto the elbows).

 

[Tom Andry]

you can get so much sound pressure, your body actually feels the vibrations.. That's the level of OOMPH I am looking for...

That sounds to me like what you need is not more speakers, but a bigger subwoofer. "Feeling" the sound usually is associated with extremely low frequencies. Your "sub" that came with you HTiB is really more of a "woofer". If you want to feel those low frequencies, perhaps you should be looking at adding another sub.

 

[BMXTRIX]

Wow, yeah, you really have clarified things for me and as I read it I was saying to myself: Sounds like he isn't happy with his sub at all.

That puts you in a different league because 10 1" speakers for 50 bucks each will never be equal to 1 10" $500.00 sub. You not only need the size of the sub, you also need the power behind the sub and good enough cross overs that help ensure that you feel the bass. If you feel that the bottom end is what is driving you so nuts, then try turning the bass down so there isn't much, then crank your system. If you feel the speakers are adequate for pure volume, but you aren't getting the kick in the ribs from bass...

Well, you are in trouble because nothing is going to satisfy that for you for a couple hundred bucks. I had a 15" cheap sub - and it didn't come close. I got the 10" Velodyne HGS sub, and it did a lot better, but wasn't quite it.

Now I have the 18" Velodyne HGS... Yeah, now were gettin' serious.

$$$

 

[Malogato]

A really thick credit card.


Anyway, I suggest attempting to wire two ot three generic receivers together. If you survive your imminent electrocution, you will apply this life-lesson to your futre needs, and probably start down the long road of becoming a pofessional electrical engineer. Then you can post pictures on the forum to show all of us what an electrical fire looks like (Hint: it'll burn all the hair off your arms upto the elbows).

I NEVER said I was going to wire the receivers TOGETHER. - Before trying to be CUTE (a.k.a. snobby, elitist ahole), why don't you read?
If I have a receiver in the BEDROOM and a receiver in the LIVING ROOM that aren't connected to each other, any way shape or form, will they catch on fire?

Or does the concept of "side by side" escape you.

Lets try this another way.

Audio output device I have has TWO optical outputs.
Optical Output #1 and
Optical Output #2

Are plugged into
Optical Input on RECEIVER #1
and Optical Input on RECEIVER #2

Receiver #1 has 5 speakers, and a subwoofer. They share no COMMON ELECTRICAL CONTACTS as they are NOT CONNECTED TO EACH OTHER IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM

Receiver #2 has 5 speakers, and a subwoofer. Read #1

I mean, seriously guy, I'm a home audio newbie, but i'm not a complete idiot.
Just in case you don't understand how I *was* thinking, here's a little crappy map.

Now, it is my belief that the pioneer speakers are better than the speakers that came with the yamaha receiver. They are "louder" at the same volume setting on the receiver, so that leads me to believe that they must have a better sensitivity rating..

 

[markw]

Ya know, guy...

"I mean, seriously guy, I'm a home audio newbie, but i'm not a complete idiot."

Be aware that the two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, you DID imply that you were going to hook them together.

You've gotten quite a few responses trying to help you. It's not our fault that you either didn't present the problem clearly in the first place or you are too dense to understand what's being said.

Now, four pages into replys you want to get snotty?

Somehow I think your run of decent answers is about at an end.

 

[Malogato]

"I mean, seriously guy, I'm a home audio newbie, but i'm not a complete idiot."

Be aware that the two terms are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, you DID imply that you were going to hook them together.

You've gotten quite a few responses trying to help you. It's not our fault that you either didn't present the problem clearly in the first place or you are too dense to understand what's being said.

Now, four pages into replys you want to get snotty?

Somehow I think your run of decent answers is about at an end.

If you look at rock&roll's reply.. I do believe he was the *** in this equation.

Now, considering that out of 4 pages I got three decent replies.. I think it's probably ok that my "run of decent answers is about at an end" .. I mean, your replies was completely worthless.

post #3 : Worthless
Post #4 : marginally helpful woohoo! 1..
Post #5 : insightful 2...
Post #6 : repetetive of #5, i.e. worthless
Post #7 : pretty irrelevant
Post #8 : my own
post #9 : pointless.
Post #10 : might have been helpful if I knew what the device was called
11 : my own post
12 : worthless
13 : Not helpful to my question, and filled with unrelated stuff like his tangent about his speakers
14 : He didn't even read what I said, thinking I said 200watts per channel.
15 : My own
16 : points to a post that won't help anyhow. I don't want to spend $$$ on speakers when I ALREADY HAVE MORE SPEAKERS than I need.
17 : pointless. Refers me to klipsch which I'm not going to buy.. $1000 for a $150 receiver? Again, it's also telling me "buy more speakers"
18 : might have been Somewhat helpful, but not really - also makes a point
that is unrelated to the analogies that I didn't start.
19 : unrelated.
20 : Unrelated as well. - I don't care about store return policies, I'M NOT BUYING NEW SPEAKERS. I'm TRYING TO MAKE THE SPEAKERS I HAVE WORK ON MY RECEIVER!
21 : my own post
22 : something I knew already. No ****, sherlock. My speakers suck, which is why I want to ADD MORE SPEAKERS THAT I ALREADY HAVE.
23 : my own post
24 : you recommend athena ($800), klipsch ($1000), for a $150 receiver
25 : pointless. - see #22
26 : I didn't start the car analogies, I just rolled with them. Pointless, and also not really a valid analogy
27 : stupid, stupid, stupid. So, I'm supposed to buy an overpriced, stereo with small speakers, rather than just make my EXISTING SPEAKERS WORK?
28 : another worthless car analogy, but then he actually makes a good point. I'm not like you people. I'm not going to spend $1,000+ on speakers and receivers.
29: But they are still $800 for the ones that "match" the recommended 94dB sensitivity level, and this is still "buy more speakers" rather than "this is how you get the speakers you have to work"
30 : my post
31 : points me to cerwin vega. Which is "Buy more speakers"
32 : ahole in training
33 : Might be onto something. But still sounds like "buy more speakers"
34 : Sounds like buy more speakers : then a self ego stroke "I've got this great thing, I'm better than you"
35 : my post telling rock&roll to stuff it
36 : your dumb post
37 : this reply
38 : Your clever belief that I'm going to get banned. You must be a mod, right?


wow.. it wasn't even two helpful posts.
half of the posts were "buy new speakers"

 

[markw]

Only three decent replies? Well, I guess most of us here are chopped meat then.

Seems to me I counted more than that that tried to help you. I'm sorry you find the quality of service not up to your standards. We sincerely apologize for our not being able to understand what you were trying to say.

Of course, being able to explain what you want to do does help somewhat but don't let that worry you. I don't thinik it will be an issue much longer.

y'all come back now, y'hear. I might suggest a new moniker next time, though.

 

[Die Hard Yammy]

Alright lets try to calm down!

What I think the problem is, is that you are asking a question about something that no-one (and I mean no-one) here at Audioholics would even consider doing or could justify such an unnecessary audio setup.

Most of us here are running AMPS, PRE-PROS, High end AVR's, Mono-blocks, etc. etc. You're aking us questions about stuff most of us would put in our garage or simply throw away.

I fully understand that you are a NEWBIE and don't place much emphasis of quality of sound. You are like 85% of the population, you simply could't be bothered spending big money or countless hours setting up a serious system.

All I'm trying to say without being an A-hole is that, it's hard for AUDIO FREAKS like us to provide advice on something we can't see ourselves even considering as an option in the audio realm. For myself in particular I don't have a problem spending 4000$ of a pair of speakers or an AVR. To me it's an investment that keeps on giving. I AM NOT RICH BY ANY MEANS, I'm only 23 and I've spend nearly $12000 on my system, not all at once, it takes time not only to save that kind of money but to find the best equipment for your application.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, DO IT RIGHT OR DON'T DO IT AT ALL!

 

[Malogato]

I have 10 (.2) speakers.

5 of the speakers are yamaha, 89db, 73 db, whatever.. They produce sound. at any specific setting on the volume knob on my receiver, they produce x amount of sound. Lets call it 100 units.
at the same setting, my pioneer speakers, which I don't know WHAT their sensitivity ratings are, produce 150 units of sound.

If I turn up the YAMAHA'S, I'll get 150 units of sound.
But at that same setting, I'll get 180 units of sound on the pioneers.

As I turn up the YAMAHA's.. at some point, I start to hear "noise".. lets say it's at 180 units of sound.
If I switch over to the pioneers, I don't hear the noise, even though they've gotten to 230 units of sound.


So.. I then turn the yamaha's back down to "150"
I would like to take the 150, add the 180, and get 330.
Maybe it will lose something in the translation, and I'll only get 300.. but, the pioneers, themselves, can't do 300, because THEY start making "noise"

This is NO different than ADDING A SECOND SPEAKER to a STEREO receiver.
75 watts x 1 = 75 watts
75 watts x 2 = 150 watts
75 watts x 5 = 375 watts
75 watts x 10 = 750 watts

why is this so hard to understand?
I know I cannot get the 750 watts out of a 500 watt receiver
but I CAN GET 750 watts out of 2 500 WATT receivers, and still not "blow the speakers"..

That yamaha sound projecter is using 42 SPEAKERS to produce it's sound.
I want to use 10. Why am I getting so much grief?
Why are people suggesting I go electrocute myself.
Why am I then having to tell them to go f()(K themselves.

Since my receiver can't drive 10(.2) speakers, can't two receivers drive 10.2 if those receivers are 5.1 ?

I'm not going to spend $800 on speakers..when I can spend $150 on a receiver and get more sound

/end thread - I'm buying a second HTR-5730 .. possibly a 5830.