Stereo amplifier for DALI Opticon 6

W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
Well, i want to thank you both, and thank a lot for this chart, make's me feel better after I read it:) I mean, i lost a few things without a subwoofer, I thought it was worse for my speakers:) I lose Contrabassoon, Harp, Pipe Organ and the some on the "left side" of piano :) I will take some time to see what to do, because to sell them, i think it's not a good thing, cause I will go to lose a lot of money, and even a month it's passed since i bought them :)
The curios thing is, they "goes up" to 32 kHz, what a silly way have chosen DALI :) They could stop at 28kHz and "goes down" to 40Hz at least :) Take that like a joke :)

Best regards.
 
G

gzubeck

Audioholic
You have right, I bought Marantz for HDAM :)

In other words you are saying my speakers sux. And it's not first time when you shall remember them :) Did you even ou listening this speakers? Or based on what you say that about this speakers? It's was they cost, about $1900, and just to know, many people chose this speakers instead of: Tannoy XTF6/8, or B&W CM8 S2, KEF R500, I already said that. I'm really curios how you arrived to that conclusion, because they cost "just" $1900?:)

Regards.
No your speakers do not suck. I purchased an emotiva a300 amp that is absolutely powerful and dead silent. Puts out 150 watts into 8ohms and 200 watts into 4ohms for $339. Best money Ive ever spent on an amplifier. It doesnt have a preamp so I purchased a schiit sys passive preamp. Your speaker requires a a good amp to be optimal as it needs to drive a 4 ohm load. Some receivers cant do the job.

http://www.dali-speakers.com/us/loudspeakers/opticon/opticon-6/
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
No your speakers do not suck. I purchased an emotiva a300 amp that is absolutely powerful and dead silent. Puts out 150 watts into 8ohms and 200 watts into 4ohms for $339. Best money Ive ever spent on an amplifier. It doesnt have a preamp so I purchased a schiit sys passive preamp. Your speaker requires a a good amp to be optimal as it needs to drive a 4 ohm load. Some receivers cant do the job.

http://www.dali-speakers.com/us/loudspeakers/opticon/opticon-6/

Thank you for your support ;)
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
Well people, today I a did thing suggested by a friend. He gave me a track, in 2 version, 1 the original one where have instrument with goes under 45Hz and the other version mastered and he modify to don't have "sound" under 45Hz frequency.

So after listening several times both version, I can say that:

In the mastered version I felt a bass more "drier", short, "cold", with a lot of bum bum and in the original version stronger bass, longer (like duration in time), harmoniously even I "feel" him much deeper.

Is that a good thing or how is?:)

Regards.
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Hi George. IMO, that is a good thing hearing the extra low end. Many times that will be sub harmonics, and environmental sounds that translate into a more realistic presentation, and even better imaging. My speakers for example play down around 35hz, but I very rarely listen sans sub, because the experience is how you described, only better. Also, iirc you mentioned listening at very low volumes, and I think sometimes speakers don't "open up" until you have a little power going to them. Just a thought.
Oh yeah...you might want to think about a sub

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
Well people, today I a did thing suggested by a friend. He gave me a track, in 2 version, 1 the original one where have instrument with goes under 45Hz and the other version mastered and he modify to don't have "sound" under 45Hz frequency.

So after listening several times both version, I can say that:

In the mastered version I felt a bass more "drier", short, "cold", with a lot of bum bum and in the original version stronger bass, longer (like duration in time), harmoniously even I "feel" him much deeper.

Is that a good thing or how is?:)

Regards.
The speakers I own, they report down to 40, perhaps a little less on a good day in the right room. My room is bass friendly for this, meaning, I get some additional bass usually due to the nature of the room. I could have lived with this on average. The folks here keep suggesting a subwoofer. Curiosity gets the better of me and I add a single, yet powerful, 12" subwoofer. Night and day difference. I can tune the sub for as much, or as little presence I desire. Even at it's most minimal contribution, the dynamic of the sound is enhanced across all the upper ranges. The main speakers moved up into the next league of quality with no doubts or 2nd guessing and without effort. I no longer need the amp to perform any tricks. Even playing in pure direct mode without EQ it starts out much closer to perfect and needing less volume to sound substantial than before.

Before the subwoofer, I would have to turn the speakers up to the volume that they play better at which is fine if you always like pretty loud, but now with the subwoofer, it is good always and for all kinds of music.

Having to choose an amp for it's tonal contribution would have been a difficult and expensive risk. Now with the speakers optimized first, any reasonable amp power will do. This makes my system good for a very long time, regardless of what my personal economy becomes in the future.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Just to add to Mr boat, what a subwoofer does is adds presence and takes over the lower frequencies, thus presenting your amp with an easier load to drive your mains. It could be placebo effect, but I swear my speakers get more detailed when I use them with my subs as opposed to using them full range by themselves.

I was resistant to numerous suggestions to upgrade my old subwoofers. I finally did and it was the biggest improvement to my system overall than almost anything else I did. when I upgraded my avr I went with a better feature set and slightly less power, and I still have enough power to reach painful levels at my seating position.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
I don't say it's a bad suggestion or idea to have a sub, just i don't want a sub :) No worries, but for stereo listening don't want a sub, or 2xsub in stereo listening or none :)

I know this test is in german, but you can see the measurement here if you want:

http://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/dali-opticon-6/seite-5.html

And i think if i will put more further of the wall, the bass will diminish, and with a stereo amplifier will be much more well :) I want to try that and see what happens :)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I don't say it's a bad suggestion or idea to have a sub, just i don't want a sub :) No worries, but for stereo listening don't want a sub, or 2xsub in stereo listening or none :)

I know this test is in german, but you can see the measurement here if you want:

http://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/dali-opticon-6/seite-5.html

And i think if i will put more further of the wall, the bass will diminish, and with a stereo amplifier will be much more well :) I want to try that and see what happens :)
I know English isn't your first language, but I do think you're doing a great job because I can understand you very well. I'm just not sure if I read this post correctly though. Are you saying that you would rather have 2 subs or none at all? 2 subwoofers would be ideal. Any money you have budgeted for an amplifier could go into a pair of decent subs. I promise you it would be a very significant improvement and you'll be very impressed with the way they'll make your whole system sound.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
And i think if i will put more further of the wall, the bass will diminish, and with a stereo amplifier will be much more well :) I want to try that and see what happens :)
I have already encouraged you, more than once, to get a 2 channel power amplifier for the front L/R speakers, but if you are really going to listen at low volume, say with your AVR's volume at -20 or lower now, then you won't hear a difference. At higher volume when you push the AVR beyond it's limit then yes the amp will help, if it is a much more powerful one.

It seems obvious that you really believe those subjective reviews and forum talks, so I do believe you are going to hear the difference that you have been expecting, even at low level.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
@Pogre: In fact i would to say, if one day i will think to add a subwoofer to my sistem, for sure i will buy directly 2, but till than, i will try to put more further of the wall the speakers to diminish the bass of speakers, cause i found to hard and prominent right now. And for sure next step will be the stereo amplifier, sorry but is my wish :)

@PENG: The measurements made with performance device, that I believe.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I don't say it's a bad suggestion or idea to have a sub, just i don't want a sub :) No worries, but for stereo listening don't want a sub, or 2xsub in stereo listening or none :)

I know this test is in german, but you can see the measurement here if you want:

http://www.i-fidelity.net/testberichte/hifi/dali-opticon-6/seite-5.html

And i think if i will put more further of the wall, the bass will diminish, and with a stereo amplifier will be much more well :) I want to try that and see what happens :)
I'm also not quite sure what you're saying with the "sub, or 2xsub in stereo listening or none"?

There is little actual stereo going on in sub frequency range, usually recordings are in mono in the sub's range of frequencies. Also, optimal placement of subs is key in a room, and occupying a stereo arrangement along with the L/R speaker is not likely to be optimal in that frequency range. Your room reacts differently to bass frequencies, roughly under 200hz, it's called the Schroeder Frequency, try this article's explanation.

That speaker test you linked where it shows in-room bass response peaking in the 30s is in a similar room to yours? You really need to measure your own room's response to know what you're getting. Do you have a diagram of your room or pictures showing your speaker placement?

Sometimes you just gotta buy the high powered amp you've read about and hear for yourself....but with enough expectation bias like Peng referred to, you will. At low levels the amp is hardly working (your speakers should be fairly loud even with just a watt or two). Nothing wrong with that, but its more like the emperor's clothes thing....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The measurements made with performance device, that I believe.
Good to know..

If you must have "stereo" subs, it is a smaller investment in two SVS SB1000 than a stereo amp that is good enough to beat the SR6011. The SB1000 will give you tight and musical bass.

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000

Do you realize that the SR6011's Audyssey XT32/Sub EQHT can do a really good job integrating two subwoofers? I read the specs of your Opticon 6, I have no doubt SubEQHT can blend them in very nicely. Again, many subjective reviews may tell you how direct and pure direct being superior for music, but that's just not true if a good REQ systems. I just don't see any scientific reasons for the Opticon 6 to benefit from more expensive gear for low level listening. They should be able to do quite well from 80-20,000 Hz. They just need some real help in the 25-80 Hz range.
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
Good to know..

If you must have "stereo" subs, it is a smaller investment in two SVS SB1000 than a stereo amp that is good enough to beat the SR6011. The SB1000 will give you tight and musical bass.

https://www.svsound.com/products/sb-1000

Do you realize that the SR6011's Audyssey XT32/Sub EQHT can do a really good job integrating two subwoofers? I read the specs of your Opticon 6, I have no doubt SubEQHT can blend them in very nicely. Again, many subjective reviews may tell you how direct and pure direct being superior for music, but that's just not true if a good REQ systems. I just don't see any scientific reasons for the Opticon 6 to benefit from more expensive gear for low level listening. They should be able to quite well from 80-20,000 Hz. They just need some real help in the 25-80 Hz range.
I have a pair of SB1000's and can whole heartedly say Peng nails it with this post. You would be FAR better off with a couple of subwoofers as opposed to buying a pricey amp. I think you're underestimating how much a pair of subs will clean up your system. It will be much, much, much more of an audible upgrade than buying a new amplifier. I wouldn't even think twice about it.
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I have a pair of SB1000's and can whole heartedly say Peng nails it with this post. You would be FAR better off with a couple of subwoofers as opposed to buying a pricey amp. I think you're underestimating how much a pair of subs will clean up your system. It will be much, much, much more of an audible upgrade than buying a new amplifier. I wouldn't even think twice about it.
Well at least he knows now if anything is missing, how to fix it.

I even hooked up the sub with my older, full range JBL speakers that have their own bass capabilities, removed the lowest frequencies from them to the subwoofer and those JBL speakers are midrange/mid-bass monsters in their own right. In this configuration, the 12" woofers of the JBLs barely move and it does indeed clean the sound up there as well.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Spartan
Well at least he knows now if anything is missing, how to fix it.

I even hooked up the sub with my older, full range JBL speakers that have their own bass capabilities, removed the lowest frequencies from them to the subwoofer and those JBL speakers are midrange/mid-bass monsters in their own right. In this configuration, the 12" woofers of the JBLs barely move and it does indeed clean the sound up there as well.
Yep. I have a pair also mr. boat. S312II's actually, not the copper ones like yours(love the copper, especially in beech). As you said, they do play low enough on their but crossing them over to subs makes them very dynamic. I'll upgrade them someday but that's another story...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
Yep. I have a pair also mr. boat. S312II's actually, not the copper ones like yours(love the copper, especially in beech). As you said, they do play low enough on their but crossing them over to subs makes them very dynamic. I'll upgrade them someday but that's another story...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When I was building my current speakers, I tried them before putting the finish on. I was not put out by having to use the JBLs in their place once again when I went to add the finish. It was that rather immediate exchange that showed just how formidable the JBLs actually still are. Just very large!
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
I feel bad cause i don't speak VERY well english to can explain very well. But i will try to do my best this time.

Even before to build/buy my audio system, my wish was to have a stereo system(a pairs of speakers, an integrate amplifier and cd-player). After a few "calculations" I told to myself will be nice to can use the system for movies too. So, I did that(I bought the pairs of speakers+center speaker+AVR+blu-ray player Oppo UDP-203) saying in the future when I will have possibility(money) i will buy the stereo amplifier at which I dream everyday :) bass membrane moves toward the outside

If I did not believe in your experience I would not be here to ask your help. I want that to be clear. Sure I seems a stubborn person, but I repeat, is my WISH(the stereo amplifier) and I'm pretty sure that do not bring me a minus on my system, on the contrary just plus can bring me. On the other hand, maybe this upgrade will not resolve my "issue", the "very present bass" which this speakers that this speakers "give it to me". Like I said, I will even try to change the position of the speakers, because right now they are very near of the wall(about 90 foot, 11 inches), because for sure even their position plays an important role for the bass. And like I said, i didn't enjoy my single experience with the subwoofer, with the others speakers which I had for 2 weeks(DALI Zensor 7) I had DALI E-12F subwoofer and simply didn't like it the experience that he gives me. Maybe I didn't do well the setup, but I can tell you, I "played" with all the setup about the subwoofer, setup in the Marantz menu, Oppo menu(crossover, EQ), even to change in all possible ways the setup on the subwoofer in self, I mean crossover to play between 0-180, i had another option which gaves me the possibility to switch between 0 or 180 degree(here the difference which I noticed was in 0 degree the bass membrane moves toward the outside and in 180 degree the bass membrane moves inwards(inside), and with the volume of the bass either, and tried 2-3 position for him in my room.

So, after I will by the stereo amplifier, I will still be not satisfied, I will think to buy a subwoofer:)
For that i choice the name of the topic "Stereo amplifier for DALI Opticon 6", believing that someone has this speakers or had the possibility to "listening" them, to give me an advice for a very good(best if possible:) match with my speakers, based on my needs (warm sound, HT-bypass, and a very good quality(full of details) of sound at an low level volume).
After my only complaint that I had regarding "the sound" of this speakers, namely the pregnant bass of them, I very much appreciate your advices, regarding to add a subwoofer to my system for resolving my problem with the pregnant bass, but just for no is not an option for me, and that because of that great desire I have for an stereo amplifier :)

And regarding my AVR(SR6011) even on Marantz website, it's not specified the power in watts for speakers with 4ohm, just for 6 and 8ohm, maybe this can't be another "little issue" for my system, even if somewhere in the description they say "he can handle it with 4ohm impedance.

And one more thing, MAYBE it's just marketing(to make they(Marantz) more money), but this is the mail from Marantz(that is back when I had Zensor 7, but I'm pretty sure that don't change much):


Me: If I already have SR6011 and Dali Zensor 7, is that enough for a good audio quality listening?

Marantz: While the SR6011 will give clean enough results with your speakers in terms of general quality, the receiver will not be able to give the same kind of dynamic performance that you would get from the PM amplifiers.

The PM amplifier will provide better performance, however it would not be £1000 of a difference in quality between the two products.

The best advice I can give is to consult with a retailer who will be able to demo the equipment for you so you can listen to it and trust your own ears.

Sincerely,
Marantz Customer Support





Hope so you will not blame me, at least no very greatly for my desire :)
And till now my only option for the stereo amplifier is Lyngdorf TDAI-2170.

Again, I keep very much to thank you all for all yours help&advices!

Hope so, this time i could explain better than till now.

Best regards.
 
Last edited:
M

MrBoat

Audioholic Samurai
I feel bad cause i don't speak VERY well english to can explain very well. But i will try to do my best this time.

Even before to build/buy my audio system, my wish was to have a stereo system(a pairs of speakers, an integrate amplifier and cd-player). After a few "calculations" I told to myself will be nice to can use the system for movies too. So, I did that(I bought the pairs of speakers+center speaker+AVR+blu-ray player Oppo UDP-203) saying in the future when I will have possibility(money) i will buy the stereo amplifier at which I dream everyday :) bass membrane moves toward the outside

If I did not believe in your experience I would not be here to ask your help. I want that to be clear. Sure I seems a stubborn person, but I repeat, is my WISH(the stereo amplifier) and I'm pretty sure that do not bring me a minus on my system, on the contrary just plus can bring me. On the other hand, maybe this upgrade will not resolve my "issue", the "very present bass" which this speakers that this speakers "give it to me". Like I said, I will even try to change the position of the speakers, because right now they are very near of the wall(about 90 foot, 11 inches), because for sure even their position plays an important role for the bass. And like I said, i didn't enjoy my single experience with the subwoofer, with the others speakers which I had for 2 weeks(DALI Zensor 7) I had DALI E-12F subwoofer and simply didn't like it the experience that he gives me. Maybe I didn't do well the setup, but I can tell you, I "played" with all the setup about the subwoofer, setup in the Marantz menu, Oppo menu(crossover, EQ), even to change in all possible ways the setup on the subwoofer in self, I mean crossover to play between 0-180, i had another option which gaves me the possibility to switch between 0 or 180 degree(here the difference which I noticed was in 0 degree the bass membrane moves toward the outside and in 180 degree the bass membrane moves inwards(inside), and with the volume of the bass either, and tried 2-3 position for him in my room.

So, after I will by the stereo amplifier, I will still be not satisfied, I will think to buy a subwoofer:)
For that i choice the name of the topic "Stereo amplifier for DALI Opticon 6", believing that someone has this speakers or had the possibility to "listening" them, to give me an advice for a very good(best if possible:) match with my speakers, based on my needs (warm sound, HT-bypass, and a very good quality(full of details) of sound at an low level volume).
After my only complaint that I had regarding "the sound" of this speakers, namely the pregnant bass of them, I very much appreciate your advices, regarding to add a subwoofer to my system for resolving my problem with the pregnant bass, but just for no is not an option for me, and that because of that great desire I have for an stereo amplifier :)

And regarding my AVR(SR6011) even on Marantz website, it's not specified the power in watts for speakers with 4ohm, just for 6 and 8ohm, maybe this can't be another "little issue" for my system, even if somewhere in the description they say "he can handle it with 4ohm impedance.

And one more thing, MAYBE it's just marketing(to make they(Marantz) more money), but this is the mail from Marantz(that is back when I had Zensor 7, but I'm pretty sure that don't change much):


Me: If I already have SR6011 and Dali Zensor 7, is that enough for a good audio quality listening?

Marantz: While the SR6011 will give clean enough results with your speakers in terms of general quality, the receiver will not be able to give the same kind of dynamic performance that you would get from the PM amplifiers.

The PM amplifier will provide better performance, however it would not be £1000 of a difference in quality between the two products.

The best advice I can give is to consult with a retailer who will be able to demo the equipment for you so you can listen to it and trust your own ears.

Sincerely,
Marantz Customer Support





Hope so you will not blame me, at least no very greatly for my desire :)
And till now my only option for the stereo amplifier is Lyngdorf TDAI-2170.

Again, I keep very much to thank you all for all yours help&advices!

Hope so, this time i could explain better than till now.

Best regards.
No-no. . . .you are fine. You know what you like. We just expand the conversation. No fault of yours. Sometimes in the future, other people read this thread. Maybe they get other questions answered due to this expanded conversation.

When I joined, I had a lot of the same requirements as you and perhaps more antiquated in my approach. My room is small. I did not need another box in here and the subwoofers are pretty big. I am sure I drive these people crazy the whole time.

I think I can speak for others here as well in the evidence of this exchange in your thread that the people enjoyed it. I did. I hope you stick around and report your progress over time.

I too, like the other kinds of amps and I will likely end up with some of those as well in the future. For the moment I am still surprised with the Denon AVR and new speakers. An upgrade for me.

I am sure you will work it out to your satisfaction.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your patience.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
No-no. . . .you are fine. You know what you like. We just expand the conversation. No fault of yours. Sometimes in the future, other people read this thread. Maybe they get other questions answered due to this expanded conversation.

When I joined, I had a lot of the same requirements as you and perhaps more antiquated in my approach. My room is small. I did not need another box in here and the subwoofers are pretty big. I am sure I drive these people crazy the whole time.

I think I can speak for others here as well in the evidence of this exchange in your thread that the people enjoyed it. I did. I hope you stick around and report your progress over time.

I too, like the other kinds of amps and I will likely end up with some of those as well in the future. For the moment I am still surprised with the Denon AVR and new speakers. An upgrade for me.

I am sure you will work it out to your satisfaction.

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your patience.
Thank you very much, you are so kind :) All peoples here are so nice, and I'm glad I joined this forum.

I think all newbies have the same requirements +/-, and want to convince themselves, for sure it's a newbie characteristic :)

And for sure I will stick around and report my progress, but this will be at least in a couples of weeks.

And if you all still have patience and nerves, I want to know your opinion about class D stereo amplifier and if it's possible exactly about this model: Lyngdorf TDAI-2170.(I know it's an european model, but at least to give it a look at he's specs).


Thank you again all very much!
 

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