Stereo amplifier for DALI Opticon 6

TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I have to second what lovinthehd said about recent posters. We have had some real doozies wandering through here lately.

As far as the audio press in concerned, you need to take pretty much everything with a huge grain of salt. The audio press is unfortunately the most unreliable source about everything audio. This is a shame as it causes people to waste on awful lot of money.

We had the worst example recently as a friend posted trying to help a friend with a system that must have cost more than most people's houses, but was in fact junk, if for no other reason for the fact that it had blown up for the fifteenth time! He was certainly fleeced by the most avaricious of audiophools.

The days when the editors of journals devoted to this hobby were seasoned engineers are long gone. I'm thinking of the likes of John Grabbe, Percy Wilson, John Borwick Donald Aldous and many more. Now it is all useless subjective reviews. The guys I mentioned measured.

Now its is left to us to at least try and get some perspective out there based on verifiable and not alternative facts.

By the way if your first language is German, you do a really good job of responding in the English language.

I hope you stay around.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
For those speakers in a medium size room, any major brand (Yamaha, Denon, Marantz) flag ship models AVR can do a good job. It you believe expensive amps making audible differences, then any reputable brands such as the Hegel you mentioned, or Parasound Halo, Bryston SST2/or 3, Classe, Anthem, NAD will have >200WPC models that can do a good job for you.

If you are interested in class D, and is concerned about the low impedance that TLSG mentioned, then go for something like the Bel Canto's. I have no doubt the Bel Canto class D amps have no trouble driving your low impedance speakers.

http://www.belcantodesign.com/home/eone/ref600m-amplifier/
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
Thank you all!

No worries :)

In fact my first language is not German, I'm Romanian and now I live in France. And thank you for the compliment.

Well, where I read? I already put some link's here, whathifi.com, trustedreview.com, and much more.
Yes is true, some can be payed and after they write nice things about the hi-fi stuff. But, I came here, cause already I did a mistake, I mean, first I bought another speakers, DALI Zensor 7(cause we said lets buy some speakers in $1000 budget), that was an impulse before Christmas, we decide, my and my wife, to buy a nice pleasant for us for Christmas. So i did a quick search on the net and find out this speakers, and in a lots of review coming from people who bought them, they have 5 stars. Much of them have choice DALI Opticon over Tannoy XTF6/8, or B&W CM8 S2, KEF R500, so like a newbie after i return the Zensor 7, i take this speakers. Now I can't changed anymore :) I'm sure is not for an audiophile, but, in this range of price i think is not bad, contrary, I think they are among the first in this budget.

Now, like i said, I already have an AVR(Marantz SR6011) but i find this AVR don't give me relief in the music. And I tend to think, to have a good audio quality you need a amplifier stereo.
And why i choice the 2? The Lyngdorf because is "brother" of DALI, who made DALI is Peter Lyngdorf and Lyngdorf is the middle brand, and the high end is Steinway Lyngdorf. And the second one, after a few digging to find out a good match between Opticon and an amplifier, besides others amplifier(like Roksan K3, Yamaha A-S2100, Rega Elicit-R) was the only who had streamer, and i find it's very
comfortable to can play music with TIDAL in high-end definition.

Like i said, i already "lose" a lots of money and really i don't want anymore, so for that reason i came here, for your help.

I already had a subwoofer, but with the others speakers, with Zensor 7 i had DALI E-12F. I will paste the specs of Zensor 7 and E-12F in case they will help for making an idea.

Zensor 7

Power handling: 150 W
Recommended Amplifier: 30 W to 150 W
2-way column speaker
Bass-reflex load
Single terminal block

Measures
Sensitivity: 90 dB / 1w / 1m
Nominal impedance: 6 Ohms
Sound level max. : 110 dB (1w / 1m)
Frequency response: 40 Hz to 26.5 kHz
Recovery frequencies: 2.4 kHz

Loudspeakers
2x HP bass-medium 18 cm
1x 2.5 cm dome tweeter

E-12F

Amplifier power: 170 W RMS (220 W peak)

Frequency response (+/- 3dB): 28 Hz to 190 Hz
Sound level max. : 112 dB
Low pass filter: 40 to 120 Hz
Phase Inverter

Loud speaker
Loudspeaker: 30 cm diaphragm Polymer Aluminum
Charge Bass Reflex
Frequency Bass Reflex: 36 Hz

Connectors
1x mono input LFE
1x RCA stereo line input (with low-pass filtering)

And sincerely, I didn't like it with subwoofer, i returned back the subwoofer was to much boom boom for me :)

I really want to thank you all for your kindness!

Best regards!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I've glanced at whathifi and trustedreview before, they're lightweight subjective reviews which I find useless myself. May as well be asking them what tacos they like.

Not familiar with Dali subs, don't think you'll find that much in the US. I pulled up their site for the sub you had and found this bit of nonsense: "The integrated 170 Watt RMS Class D amplifier is a highly linear construction. The DALI SUB E-12 F will follow and render the required signal with an absolute minimum of bias. Designed not only for continuous power, but also for peak power, this subwoofer is able to deliver 220 Watt Peak Power. This is very relevant when it comes to both movie and music signals" The difference between 170 continuous and 220 peak is not significant, if anything shows peak power is minimal. I'd stick to subwoofer specialists rather than speaker companies more worried about cabinet size and finish....

I'd suspect you may also have not setup the sub well but that's another thread....

Overall rather than chase sound quality thru an amp I'd suggest you look at better speakers/subs and look at any room treatment you can to enhance your audio first.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I already had a subwoofer, but with the others speakers, with Zensor 7 i had DALI E-12F. I will paste the specs of Zensor 7 and E-12F in case they will help for making an idea.

Zensor 7

Power handling: 150 W
Recommended Amplifier: 30 W to 150 W
2-way column speaker
Bass-reflex load
Single terminal block

Measures
Sensitivity: 90 dB / 1w / 1m
Nominal impedance: 6 Ohms
Sound level max. : 110 dB (1w / 1m)
Frequency response: 40 Hz to 26.5 kHz
Recovery frequencies: 2.4 kHz

Loudspeakers
2x HP bass-medium 18 cm
1x 2.5 cm dome tweeter

E-12F

Amplifier power: 170 W RMS (220 W peak)

Frequency response (+/- 3dB): 28 Hz to 190 Hz
Sound level max. : 112 dB
Low pass filter: 40 to 120 Hz
Phase Inverter

Loud speaker
Loudspeaker: 30 cm diaphragm Polymer Aluminum
Charge Bass Reflex
Frequency Bass Reflex: 36 Hz

Connectors
1x mono input LFE
1x RCA stereo line input (with low-pass filtering)

And sincerely, I didn't like it with subwoofer, i returned back the subwoofer was to much boom boom for me :)

I really want to thank you all for your kindness!

Best regards!
I thought you returned the Zonsor 7, no?

The SR-6011 is still adequate for your Dali speakers if you add a 2X200W power amplifier to take care of the main L/R Opticon 6.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
I've glanced at whathifi and trustedreview before, they're lightweight subjective reviews which I find useless myself. May as well be asking them what tacos they like.

Not familiar with Dali subs, don't think you'll find that much in the US. I pulled up their site for the sub you had and found this bit of nonsense: "The integrated 170 Watt RMS Class D amplifier is a highly linear construction. The DALI SUB E-12 F will follow and render the required signal with an absolute minimum of bias. Designed not only for continuous power, but also for peak power, this subwoofer is able to deliver 220 Watt Peak Power. This is very relevant when it comes to both movie and music signals" The difference between 170 continuous and 220 peak is not significant, if anything shows peak power is minimal. I'd stick to subwoofer specialists rather than speaker companies more worried about cabinet size and finish....

I'd suspect you may also have not setup the sub well but that's another thread....

Overall rather than chase sound quality thru an amp I'd suggest you look at better speakers/subs and look at any room treatment you can to enhance your audio first.
It is possible to do not make a good setup for the sub, i tried a few things, like crossover(more i let it at 80), i switched from 0 degree to 180 degree also( i forgot the technical name of that), but all the times I felt like he got hit in the stomach.

And really can't change the speakers, unless i will gonna sell them and lose a lot of many, they have even not 1 month since i bought them.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
I thought you returned the Zonsor 7, no?

The SR-6011 is still adequate for your Dali speakers if you add a 2X200W power amplifier to take care of the main L/R Opticon 6.
Yes, i did, i returned the Zensor 7, now i have Opticon 6.
It's better to take a power amplifier over a stereo integrate one?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
If you already have the pre-amp via your avr, it should be more cost effective to add a power amp, at least it would be here in the US. Your issue could still be more setup related than electronics or power. What volume level (spl) do you listen at and how far away from the speakers do you sit?
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
If you already have the pre-amp via your avr, it should be more cost effective to add a power amp, at least it would be here in the US. Your issue could still be more setup related than electronics or power. What volume level (spl) do you listen at and how far away from the speakers do you sit?

I like to listening at a low level, like in background, for that one of my desire was to know a good stereo amplifier which at low level volume, maintain the same details of quality sound. And I'm 3 meters away.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Your hearing is different at lower levels, usually doesn't prefer a "flat" response. In your Marantz did you try using the Audyssey Dynamic EQ feature?
 
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whiplash

Junior Audioholic
Your hearing is different at lower levels, usually doesn't prefer a "flat" response. In your Marantz did you try using the Audyssey Dynamic EQ feature?
Yup I did, after i put even Dynamic Volume at Light and Odyssey LFC on ON, i find some good improves. But still I don't find the "relief" in music with this AVR.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I never use Dynamic Volume, that's a compression routine that doesn't help anything IMO, nor do I need to use the LFC option, I'm not worried about neighbors; both of these things are basically limitations. For music with DynamicEQ I use a different RLO (reference level offset) settings as the standards are different than for movies.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
I never use Dynamic Volume, that's a compression routine that doesn't help anything IMO, nor do I need to use the LFC option, I'm not worried about neighbors; both of these things are basically limitations. For music with DynamicEQ I use a different RLO (reference level offset) settings as the standards are different than for movies.
Can you please explain me with more details your settings to can try with yours to see the difference?
Now in Audissey i have this:

MultEQ XT32:Reference
Dynamic EQ: On
-Reference Level Offset 0 dB
and the rest Dynamic Volume and LFC i turned off.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I'm gonna second TLS on trusting reviews. You can find a good review on almost any speaker made. They're often colored favorably because the reviewers tend to get advertising dollars from the same companies they review.

That's the thing about this site. There's no bs. It may not always be what you want to hear, but you will always get honest and learned advice here.
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
@whiplash have you read Audyssey's recommendations? Try this https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/212347383-Dynamic-EQ-and-Reference-Level

ps I change my Audyssey settings for a lot of reasons for music depending on what it is. Nice thing about choices in an avr....have you tried the flat/music setting? L/R Bypass?

With L/R Bypass means the AVR let the speakers without calibration? Now I saw Reference is for movies only, and flat for small rooms, but not sure exactly what is L/R Bypass?
And thank you a lot for the link, helped me, i changed Reference Level Offset to 5dB for classical which i'm listening right now.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
L/R Bypass is letting the L/R speakers alone as far as applying equalization, but here's Audyssey's take on it as not all avrs offer such nor did Audyssey, personally I rarely use it but some like it quite a bit:

"Some manufacturers have decided to implement a Bypass L/R (or Front) setting. This uses the MultEQ filters that were calculated for the entire listening area, but it does not apply any filtering to the front left and right loudspeakers. The average measured response from the front left and right loudspeakers is used as the target curve for the remaining loudspeakers in the system. The subwoofer in this case is equalized to flat as is the case for all the settings described above. This is not a setting recommended by Audyssey."
 
W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
L/R Bypass is letting the L/R speakers alone as far as applying equalization, but here's Audyssey's take on it as not all avrs offer such nor did Audyssey, personally I rarely use it but some like it quite a bit:

"Some manufacturers have decided to implement a Bypass L/R (or Front) setting. This uses the MultEQ filters that were calculated for the entire listening area, but it does not apply any filtering to the front left and right loudspeakers. The average measured response from the front left and right loudspeakers is used as the target curve for the remaining loudspeakers in the system. The subwoofer in this case is equalized to flat as is the case for all the settings described above. This is not a setting recommended by Audyssey."

So, for understanding you use to use or reference for movies, or flat than? Or you use Off MultEQ? Sorry but I'm not a native english speaker. If i understand wrong, please than tell me, what kind of setup you use for AVR? Just Reference Level Offset or/and Dynamic EQ?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
The avr I have that is closest to yours is a Denon 4520 on a 9.4 speaker setup, although a bit older than yours, but same Audyssey features I believe. For movies I generally use reference, but perhaps may turn it to flat or off for a particular soundtrack; most of the content I watch is 5.1 lossy or better, not much sources in 2ch.

For music I use a variety of Audyssey settings....Reference, Flat, even try L/R Bypass once in a while, or even off on occasion; probably reference mostly, my room is a bit bright, too. Sometimes multich music, sometimes 2ch music matrixed into multich, sometimes 2ch.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Warlord
I switch back and forth between reference and flat. Those are the 2 main modes I use. I don't think you should put yourself in a box with "X is for theater and Y is for music". Do some critical listening and switch between modes while playing a familiar song or waching a movie. Let your ears tell you what's best.
 

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