Stereo amplifier for DALI Opticon 6

W

whiplash

Junior Audioholic
That's not correct, but at least you said "almost nobody".... I know at least I commented on your Opticon 6, as well as the Hegel and Lyngdorf amps, and someone else definitely commented on Class D as well.

I don't mind repeating, base on specs and reviews (I ignore the subjective parts) your speakers seem fine from 80-20,000 or higher but can use some help in the 25-100 Hz range if you listen mostly classical music, and/or use them for watching movies. I do not believe they are hard to drive at all, relatively speaking.

The H160 has very good review, but not surprisingly, those subjective reviews included borderline on silly comments, something like "..... when compared with my $X0,000 reference XYZ amp, the H160 is not as blablablab...., in other words, it sounds great in its own price range, perhaps twice that, but if you pay more you still get better sound etc... , really bloody typical, and there is no end to to this!! Yet it seems like those reviews, along with advertisements managed to convince so many people to think that while a $5,000 amp sounds great but a $25,000 amp must sound better otherwise why would anyone spend that kind of money etc. etc.....

I do think the H160 and even the H80 are very well made amplifiers and would considering buying one if I do not have several external DAC and amplifiers already. They come with build in DAC but in terms of specs, not that impressive at all, the 6011 can actually do more, unless you plays music on from computers. They both sound good, but just like most other amps that are designed to be accurate and neutral, nothing special about it. Obviously, the dealer I went to had his own opinions.:D

I have not listened to the Lyngdorf amp that you are considering, but base on published specs, I see no evidence of that thing being capable of producing more power than your 6011 in two channel stereo. According to Lyngdorf, they designed the amp to sound accurate/neutral so if they are honest, then they should sound just like your SR6011, in a volume matched blind test of course. I am willing to bet for stereo use, the 6011 will have better bass management. Any power capability (including dynamic power) difference between the two are not significant enough to make a noticeable difference. Again, to be clear I have not heard it, but as an engineer, I am used to making reasonable assumptions and assessments based on specs and test data when the subjects being considered are not rocket science, just basic and mature technology stuff.
I didn't say nobody, I would to mean in 100 replays, I didn't received enough "characterisations"
about Opticon 6, Hegel H80/160 and Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 or even others class D integrate amp. Because in the end that was what I wanted.
Most of replays is about "get a sub" and the "AVR" is good enough for your speakers.
 
G

gzubeck

Audioholic
I didn't say nobody, I would to mean in 100 replays, I didn't received enough "characterisations"
about Opticon 6, Hegel H80/160 and Lyngdorf TDAI-2170 or even others class D integrate amp. Because in the end that was what I wanted.
Most of replays is about "get a sub" and the "AVR" is good enough for your speakers.
I'm not a big fan of class d amps. My class AB amp is very efficient when not pumping music compared to a class A amp. Class D amps are mostly used for subwoofers and only the very best Class D amps can sound very good. If you want the very best you should sell your opticons and upgrade to the epicons which have much better build quality and cleaner base. Add a Mark Levinson amp and your good to go for $12,000 or thereabouts. Those Epicons are rated for 4 Ohm and maybe are not the best match for the marantz amplifier. Out of all the receivers Marantz has the some of the best amplification but they do run hot and that can eventually lead to failure. Some people on these forums like parasound and if your looking for a name brand at reasonable prices I dont think you can go wrong there. All I can say is that after multiple generations My emotiva A-300 is doing a very fine job as I believe they have upgraded many components in the build quality. In a few months Schiit will have Vidar available for $700 and the distortion levels even at 4 ohms will be so low at 200 watts that a lot of people are waiting on this product.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Now, like i said, I already have an AVR(Marantz SR6011) but i find this AVR don't give me relief in the music. And I tend to think, to have a good audio quality you need a amplifier stereo.
I've owned and listened to many expensive electronics and speakers over many years. Well, not as long as TLSGuy :D, but about 30 years. :D

My opinion is that YES, you can get AWESOME sound from your Marantz AVR, unless you are using some kind of EQ, DSP, or something is wrong with your AVR, room ACOUSTICS, or system SETUP.

In DIRECT mode, your Marantz SHOULD sound every bit as good as any separate preamp or amp in the $3K range.

BELIEVE IT. :D
 
Francis Le

Francis Le

Audiophyte
Hi All,
My situation is similar with this thread. I am using Cambridge CXA 80 (80W RMS into 8 Ohms, 120W RMS into 4 Ohms) for a new pair of Dali Opticon6. The sound quality is not bad, but I expected it could be better, richer musicality with orchestral music. And I start thinking to upgrade my 10 year old amplifier.

My favorites are soft vocal and classical with 30 m2 listening room.

My researches found Yamaha S2100 and Accuphase 380. Do you think if they are best candidates within 3000 USD budget? Anything else can be better harmony of Dali Opticon 6?

All advises would be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much
 
mazersteven

mazersteven

Audioholic Warlord
Hi All,
My situation is similar with this thread. I am using Cambridge CXA 80 (80W RMS into 8 Ohms, 120W RMS into 4 Ohms) for a new pair of Dali Opticon6. The sound quality is not bad, but I expected it could be better, richer musicality with orchestral music. And I start thinking to upgrade my 10 year old amplifier.

My favorites are soft vocal and classical with 30 m2 listening room.

My researches found Yamaha S2100 and Accuphase 380. Do you think if they are best candidates within 3000 USD budget? Anything else can be better harmony of Dali Opticon 6?

All advises would be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much
$3000 Holy Moly

 
Francis Le

Francis Le

Audiophyte
$3000 Holy Moly

Woa, what Holy specs!
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi All,
My situation is similar with this thread. I am using Cambridge CXA 80 (80W RMS into 8 Ohms, 120W RMS into 4 Ohms) for a new pair of Dali Opticon6. The sound quality is not bad, but I expected it could be better, richer musicality with orchestral music. And I start thinking to upgrade my 10 year old amplifier.

My favorites are soft vocal and classical with 30 m2 listening room.

My researches found Yamaha S2100 and Accuphase 380. Do you think if they are best candidates within 3000 USD budget? Anything else can be better harmony of Dali Opticon 6?

All advises would be highly appreciated.
Thank you very much
More likely your speakers or room acoustics causing your doubts rather than the amp....
 
Francis Le

Francis Le

Audiophyte
More likely your speakers or room acoustics causing your doubts rather than the amp....
You might right! I am using living room with many furnitures and a grand piano on it.
Do you think Cambridge CXA 80 good enough for Dali Opticon 6?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
You might right! I am using living room with many furnitures and a grand piano on it.
Do you think Cambridge CXA 80 good enough for Dali Opticon 6?
Why wouldn't it be sufficient? The furnishing aren't relevant to a suitable amp....
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
More likely your speakers or room acoustics causing your doubts rather than the amp....
I have reviewed my original posts in this thread. Since that time we have measurements of those speakers. My advice at the time was correct.

On the whole they are really nice speakers, but with one huge problem. They have excellent upper bass, midrange and HF response. However they severely lack bass.

1605846019372.jpeg


Actually these speakers have a very rapid bass roll off. They are 24 db down by 30 Hz, which means by then they are virtually silent. So these speakers are just not going to sound right without a subwoofer. For these speakers a good sub is absolutely mandatory.

How on earth someone manages to produce a speaker that size with such a puny bass response is beyond me. That just defines "waste of space." So you will not improve matters with a different amp.

Either you need different speakers, or you need to extend the response lower with a sub. Without a sub those speakers are going to sound unbalanced especially in a larger space.
 
Francis Le

Francis Le

Audiophyte
I have reviewed my original posts in this thread. Since that time we have measurements of those speakers. My advice at the time was correct.

On the whole they are really nice speakers, but with one huge problem. They have excellent upper bass, midrange and HF response. However they severely lack bass.

View attachment 41836

Actually these speakers have a very rapid bass roll off. They are 24 db down by 30 Hz, which means by then they are virtually silent. So these speakers are just not going to sound right without a subwoofer. For these speakers a good sub is absolutely mandatory.

How on earth someone manages to produce a speaker that size with such a puny bass response is beyond me. That just defines "waste of space." So you will not improve matters with a different amp.

Either you need different speakers, or you need to extend the response lower with a sub. Without a sub those speakers are going to sound unbalanced especially in a larger space.
You're absolute right. I have added a Rel T7i subwoofer on my system.
I will try to adjust listening room, which is not acoustic ideal. BTW, do you think putting some diffusors behind the speakers could improve the sounds?
Thank you thousands times for valuable advises
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
I have reviewed my original posts in this thread. Since that time we have measurements of those speakers. My advice at the time was correct.

On the whole they are really nice speakers, but with one huge problem. They have excellent upper bass, midrange and HF response. However they severely lack bass.

View attachment 41836

Actually these speakers have a very rapid bass roll off. They are 24 db down by 30 Hz, which means by then they are virtually silent. So these speakers are just not going to sound right without a subwoofer. For these speakers a good sub is absolutely mandatory.

How on earth someone manages to produce a speaker that size with such a puny bass response is beyond me. That just defines "waste of space." So you will not improve matters with a different amp.

Either you need different speakers, or you need to extend the response lower with a sub. Without a sub those speakers are going to sound unbalanced especially in a larger space.
With such speakers yes would agree a sub is necessary. A Rel 7i wouldn't be my choice but even that should improve bass a bit. What about his amp otherwise is needing of a different one?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
It’s exactly my question today!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What is lacking in it is a better question? Why do you think a different amp would affect the sound quality particularly?
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
It’s exactly my question today!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hard to say. I have insufficient data on your room. I'm not a big fan of room treatments and don't use them myself. I really can not say if you need more power or not. Generally changing amps does not make any dramatic difference to the sound, unless it is overloaded.

I do not think your sub is adequate and you likely need a couple of decent ones. I know good subs are hard to come by in Europe due to people living in closer proximity and local ordinances. That makes the case for purchasing speakers that do not require subs more important in Europe than here.

Your fundamental problem is speakers with a very poor bass response, especially given their size and the number of drivers. I continue to be astonished at the number of speakers with serious shortcomings brought to market. Bad speakers a two a penny, good ones rare.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
I have reviewed my original posts in this thread. Since that time we have measurements of those speakers. My advice at the time was correct.

On the whole they are really nice speakers, but with one huge problem. They have excellent upper bass, midrange and HF response. However they severely lack bass.

View attachment 41836

Actually these speakers have a very rapid bass roll off. They are 24 db down by 30 Hz, which means by then they are virtually silent. So these speakers are just not going to sound right without a subwoofer. For these speakers a good sub is absolutely mandatory.

How on earth someone manages to produce a speaker that size with such a puny bass response is beyond me. That just defines "waste of space." So you will not improve matters with a different amp.

Either you need different speakers, or you need to extend the response lower with a sub. Without a sub those speakers are going to sound unbalanced especially in a larger space.
They don't do deep bass, but a lot of tower speakers start rolling off just below 40 Hz. Room gain will shore that up a little bit. However, most music doesn't have much content below 40 Hz. 40Hz isn't a bad port tuning frequency for a music-focused system, so long as the music you enjoy doesn't have a lot of deep bass, and that is pretty much 90%+ of recorded music. And, of course, giving the speaker deeper extension will come at the cost of sensitivity.

But if you are after deep bass output, you are going to need something better than an 8" sub with a 10" PR powered by a 200 watt amp. That Rel has a -6dB point of 30 Hz, so it's not hugely better than those speakers. How the hell can Rel charge $1k for that thing?
 
Francis Le

Francis Le

Audiophyte
They don't do deep bass, but a lot of tower speakers start rolling off just below 40 Hz. Room gain will shore that up a little bit. However, most music doesn't have much content below 40 Hz. 40Hz isn't a bad port tuning frequency for a music-focused system, so long as the music you enjoy doesn't have a lot of deep bass, and that is pretty much 90%+ of recorded music. And, of course, giving the speaker deeper extension will come at the cost of sensitivity.

But if you are after deep bass output, you are going to need something better than an 8" sub with a 10" PR powered by a 200 watt amp. That Rel has a -6dB point of 30 Hz, so it's not hugely better than those speakers. How the hell can Rel charge $1k for that thing?
Thank you for technical-rich inputs. In fact, I spent one hour to adjust my Rel T7i (cross-over, volume, phase, position...). And I could hear audible and significant improvements in sound quality, not only of the bass, but also in the mid from front speakers. I hope this result is not snake oil. :)
 

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