Monolith subwoofer sale

[mazersteven]

So lets look at this from a different angle. Is it worth $100 to $200 or 28% for Clarity or Dr HSU to design and build?

 

[VMPS-TIII]

So lets look at this from a different angle. Is it worth $100 to $200 or 28% for Clarity or Dr HSU to design and build?

It's not just the builder. A 12" sub will always be less expensive than a 15".

Monoprice charges $1340 for their 15" sub that is comparable to the VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub. Maybe we should compare 15" to 15"?

Products no longer Available

 

[ryanosaur]

So lets look at this from a different angle. Is it worth $100 to $200 or 28% for Clarity or Dr HSU to design and build?

Beyond budget, I’d call it a toss up. I’ve often replied to those asking that it comes down to aesthetic preference and user interface needs more than anything else.
I’m not belittling budget as a condition, and your question is supremely valid.
All of the usual suspects perform well and are arguably close enough for that criteria to be moot in most circumstances.
So budget, right size for your room, connectivity/UI, and aesthetics. Wherein lies the value?
Perhaps the only thing being overlooked is inclusion of DSP with the plate amp and whether that makes a difference for the end user.

 

[mazersteven]

Beyond budget, I’d call it a toss up. I’ve often replied to those asking that it comes down to aesthetic preference and user interface needs more than anything else.
I’m not belittling budget as a condition, and your question is supremely valid.
All of the usual suspects perform well and are arguably close enough for that criteria to be moot in most circumstances.
So budget, right size for your room, connectivity/UI, and aesthetics. Wherein lies the value?
Perhaps the only thing being overlooked is inclusion of DSP with the plate amp and whether that makes a difference for the end user.

I think the app used should be in consideration

 

[ryanosaur]

I think the app used should be in consideration

Yes, that’s user interface (UI).

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Beyond budget, I’d call it a toss up. I’ve often replied to those asking that it comes down to aesthetic preference and user interface needs more than anything else.
I’m not belittling budget as a condition, and your question is supremely valid.
All of the usual suspects perform well and are arguably close enough for that criteria to be moot in most circumstances.
So budget, right size for your room, connectivity/UI, and aesthetics. Wherein lies the value?
Perhaps the only thing being overlooked is inclusion of DSP with the plate amp and whether that makes a difference for the end user.

Something else to consider is that the mono is THX certified. Many people will scoff at that since they whored the name out for awhile. But @shadyJ has reported that the criteria is very stringent for sub certification. I know the “shoes” are basically bulletproof but iirc the monos were nukeproof. I also have no dog in this so...

 

[ryanosaur]

Something else to consider is that the mono is THX certified. Many people will scoff at that since they whored the name out for awhile. But @shadyJ has reported that the criteria is very stringent for sub certification. I know the “shoes” are basically bulletproof but iirc the monos were nukeproof. I also have no dog in this so...

This.
To be completely hones, I do not have the experience to know to what extent the THX rating on the Mono-Mono 12" Sub signifies in terms of comparing it, perhaps, to a non-THX 15" Sub.
We have seen examples of smaller drivers performing at least on par with larger divers in the past, so is it unreasonable to consider that a very well designed 12" could hang with a well designed 15" SUB? I don't think so, necessarily.
My X-13s earned their THX rating as a Singe Unit. I think it might have been the first Single Sub to garner that mark. I do not know if the Mono-Mono did so as single units or not. Either way, both are Claridy designs.
When I was shopping, Shady mentioned that the Mono 15" would outperform the X-13 in some metrics.

Regardless, definitely a great point, Bill. And likewise, i don't have a dog in this show either.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

The HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub beats the Monolith 12" on power, features, weight and looks. Here is a video testing the mono 12 against a 13" SVS.

 

[ryanosaur]

Videos like that should be banned. It's a nothing burger. (Not picking on you VMPS!)

What I want to add to this, however, is that it has been discussed and well documented that Sub Amp Power ratings are generally meaningless because with most Sub Manufacturers, we don't get Driver Parameters that tell us what the efficiency /sensitivity is. So much goes into the design of the complete system and overall performance that is not covered by Wattage.

If you don't have CEA-2010 Testing to compare and contrast output and distortion, online personalities should stop doing video demonstrations. Besides, those two subs sound awfully similar on my 2.1 Klipsch THX desktop computer speakers!


*steps off soapbox

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Videos like that should be banned. It's a nothing burger. (Not picking on you VMPS!)

What I want to add to this, however, is that it has been discussed and well documented that Sub Amp Power ratings are generally meaningless because with most Sub Manufacturers, we don't get Driver Parameters that tell us what the efficiency /sensitivity is. So much goes into the design of the complete system and overall performance that is not covered by Wattage.

If you don't have CEA-2010 Testing to compare and contrast output and distortion, online personalities should stop doing video demonstrations. Besides, those two subs sound awfully similar on my 2.1 Klipsch THX desktop computer speakers!


*steps off soapbox

:helps ryan off soap box...:
Lol

 

[mazersteven]

 

[shadyJ]

@shadyJ , You got any info on this, please? Does Claridy do manufacturing, also, or just the design work?

FWIW, the Outlaw X-13s are made in China, but designed by Claridy.

Claridy does the design and manufacturing. Their factories are in China. Basically some companies give an outline of the kind of product that they want, and Claridy makes it happen.

 

[shadyJ]

This.
To be completely hones, I do not have the experience to know to what extent the THX rating on the Mono-Mono 12" Sub signifies in terms of comparing it, perhaps, to a non-THX 15" Sub.
We have seen examples of smaller drivers performing at least on par with larger divers in the past, so is it unreasonable to consider that a very well designed 12" could hang with a well designed 15" SUB? I don't think so, necessarily.
My X-13s earned their THX rating as a Singe Unit. I think it might have been the first Single Sub to garner that mark. I do not know if the Mono-Mono did so as single units or not. Either way, both are Claridy designs.
When I was shopping, Shady mentioned that the Mono 15" would outperform the X-13 in some metrics.

Regardless, definitely a great point, Bill. And likewise, i don't have a dog in this show either.

What is widely misunderstood is that THX is not just some kind of performance bar that has to be cleared. It is a behavior that has to be governed so that the THX unit fits in with a whole THX-certified system. The purpose of this is that the sound mix will be very predictable for the user end as the sound engineers create it. If you have a THX-certified studio making content for a THX-certified end system, the sound should be the same from creation to consumption. This kind of solves the 'circle of confusion' that Floyd Toole writes about. The levels of THX, from 'Compact,' 'Select,' 'Ultra,' and 'Dominus' are there to ensure that the experience remains consistent regardless of room size.

So yes, there are minimum performance criteria that must be achieved, but the certification isn't so that you know you have some kick-ass piece of gear but rather if you put it in a properly set up THX system, you will hear exactly what the sound engineers intend for you to hear.

 

[mazersteven]

properly set up THX system, you will hear exactly what the sound engineers intend for you to hear.

But wouldn't any Quality Sound system reproduce what the Sound Engineers intended you to hear?

 

[shadyJ]

The HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP Sub beats the Monolith 12" on power, features, weight and looks. Here is a video testing the mono 12 against a 13" SVS.

I know all these subs well and wouldn't say one is overwhelmingly better than the other. They have different performance targets. The Monolith 12" is a crazy overbuilt sub that will give you pristine bass. It isn't the loudest bass nor will it extend the deepest, but it will give you zero distortion and zero compression under nearly any circumstance. The group delay is crazy low for a ported sub as well. The VTF-3 mk5 doesn't quite have as perfect behavior at the highest drive level but it is still very good, and it has significantly more mid-bass output. It can be tuned to extend a bit deeper too. The PB-3000 can compete with the VTF-3 mk5 and probably is a bit better behaved at the low end. It has a lot more features on the amplifier. But, of course, it is quite a bit more expensive. I would be happy to own any of these subs, they are all really well engineered.

 

[shadyJ]

But wouldn't any Quality Sound system reproduce what the Sound Engineers intended you to hear?

Nope, hence the 'circle of confusion' mess. There is no standard of recording for 'sound quality' aside from THX. There is no standard for room acoustics that recording engineers work in (except for THX). There is no standard of monitor (again, except for THX), although one would hope that the engineers are using a monitor of neutral response. A lot of mixing is done on headphones, and no standard there. There is no standard of hearing ability, even though a lot of recording engineers are old guys whose high-frequency hearing is shot all to hell. Even if you had a perfect sound system, you have no way of knowing if the sound coming from that system that is what the recording engineers and artists intended from any particular recording.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

Here's some of the CEA-2010 data comparing HSU 15" to 12" mono.

 

[lovinthehd]

Here's some of the CEA-2010 data comparing HSU 15" to 12" mono.

View attachment 39384

That isn't the same sub as a Monoprice Monolith sub.....and the 15H isn't quite the same as the VTF-3 mk5 either, altho close.

 

[lovinthehd]

From ShadyJ's review/test of the Monolith 12

 

[ryanosaur]

Also, IIRC, hsu CEA testing (if from them) is measured differently and has to be adjusted... again, @shadyJ could confirm this if he has a chance.
IIRC, from Hsu's measurements, you need to subtract 6dB from the numbers to compare directly to other common measurements?