mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #401 redass said: .... also, santa works in mysterious ways and doesn't want to be detected. ..... Click to expand... But, that can be tested very easily. Leave nothing under the tree and see if there is a stack under it the next day. It never happened in my life, even when I was a good little boy.
redass said: .... also, santa works in mysterious ways and doesn't want to be detected. ..... Click to expand... But, that can be tested very easily. Leave nothing under the tree and see if there is a stack under it the next day. It never happened in my life, even when I was a good little boy.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #402 zhimbo said: Exactly. Let's see the records for ALL the houses that people are trying to sell, having trouble with, and then pray that it gets sold. If someone wants me to believe "a house sells" qualifies as miraculous intervention, I want to see the results for all the prayers that failed, as well. Judging from all the unsold houses out there, I'd bet there's a lot. Click to expand... But, but, these good folks were not related to the homeowner, that is why it worked And, there may have been a small group, more than the two adults in the home who may have been praying every night. Or, they were sinners.
zhimbo said: Exactly. Let's see the records for ALL the houses that people are trying to sell, having trouble with, and then pray that it gets sold. If someone wants me to believe "a house sells" qualifies as miraculous intervention, I want to see the results for all the prayers that failed, as well. Judging from all the unsold houses out there, I'd bet there's a lot. Click to expand... But, but, these good folks were not related to the homeowner, that is why it worked And, there may have been a small group, more than the two adults in the home who may have been praying every night. Or, they were sinners.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #403 CraigV said: OK, I want to take this in a bit of a different direction, but first, a question – For those who are “non-believers” – Do humans have a soul, which is released from their mortal body upon its death? Click to expand... Why do we need a soul in the first place? What is its purpose? That only comes into play when one is a believer of the supernatural creator. The soul has no real physical function to existence. No, we do not have one and it is not provable until the supernatural can be proven or shown to exist.
CraigV said: OK, I want to take this in a bit of a different direction, but first, a question – For those who are “non-believers” – Do humans have a soul, which is released from their mortal body upon its death? Click to expand... Why do we need a soul in the first place? What is its purpose? That only comes into play when one is a believer of the supernatural creator. The soul has no real physical function to existence. No, we do not have one and it is not provable until the supernatural can be proven or shown to exist.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #404 newaudiofile said: And I wonder at which stage humans decided to have laws. Even the smallest lowest organism is guided by instinctive laws. Logic dictates that the complexity of anything has to be created. That is as simple as 1 + 1 = 2. Click to expand... Then, I could turn that around and it must apply to the supernatural as well, or that doesn't fall under such logic? Is instinct really a law? Or, just a reaction so stimulus?
newaudiofile said: And I wonder at which stage humans decided to have laws. Even the smallest lowest organism is guided by instinctive laws. Logic dictates that the complexity of anything has to be created. That is as simple as 1 + 1 = 2. Click to expand... Then, I could turn that around and it must apply to the supernatural as well, or that doesn't fall under such logic? Is instinct really a law? Or, just a reaction so stimulus?
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #405 newaudiofile said: ..The Bible says "He who says there is no God is a fool" .... Click to expand... Where can I find that quote?
newaudiofile said: ..The Bible says "He who says there is no God is a fool" .... Click to expand... Where can I find that quote?
adwilk Audioholic Ninja Jan 23, 2006 4,815 0 113 43 Doug's Basement Sep 25, 2009 #406 On an entirely unrelated note, I just realized how you have so many posts, mtrycrafts. You should try the Multi-quote. It really does exist and its results are quantifiable, and in your case, make a huge numerical difference...
On an entirely unrelated note, I just realized how you have so many posts, mtrycrafts. You should try the Multi-quote. It really does exist and its results are quantifiable, and in your case, make a huge numerical difference...
N NicolasKL Full Audioholic Aug 1, 2008 397 0 28 Sep 25, 2009 #407 adwilk said: Coincidence, sure, it could be. But it at least makes you think. Click to expand... No, it really doesn't. 5 million homes a year are sold in the US, and there is a LARGE amount of praying going on in this country. Statistics would probably indicate that given nothing more than random chance, hundreds or thousands of homes in the US will be sold each year very shortly after someone prays for them to sell. Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
adwilk said: Coincidence, sure, it could be. But it at least makes you think. Click to expand... No, it really doesn't. 5 million homes a year are sold in the US, and there is a LARGE amount of praying going on in this country. Statistics would probably indicate that given nothing more than random chance, hundreds or thousands of homes in the US will be sold each year very shortly after someone prays for them to sell.
N NicolasKL Full Audioholic Aug 1, 2008 397 0 28 Sep 25, 2009 #408 lsiberian said: It seems the most logical conclusion to state that prayer caused the difference. Any other explanation is less logical and more speculative. Click to expand... What's the average length of time a home is on the market? 60 days? So on any given day the average home is probably going to have around a 1 in 60 chance of selling. A house that's been on the market for 2 years will, obviously, have a much lesser chance of selling on any given day. What do you think it is? 1 in 1000? One in 2000? One in 10,000? One in a million? Again, 5 million homes are sold in the US every year. Even if the odds of it selling THAT DAY were 1 in 10 million, that's still not really very improbable considering 5 million homes sold every year. What are the odds of hitting the powerball? One in 120 million? Yet people do it all the time, not only is there no need to bring in the supernatural to explain it happening, the statistics say that it HAS to happen. Just like with your house situation. So, no, I'm sorry, but your conclusion is not logical. It completely ignores rational thought and any consideration of probability whatsoever.
lsiberian said: It seems the most logical conclusion to state that prayer caused the difference. Any other explanation is less logical and more speculative. Click to expand... What's the average length of time a home is on the market? 60 days? So on any given day the average home is probably going to have around a 1 in 60 chance of selling. A house that's been on the market for 2 years will, obviously, have a much lesser chance of selling on any given day. What do you think it is? 1 in 1000? One in 2000? One in 10,000? One in a million? Again, 5 million homes are sold in the US every year. Even if the odds of it selling THAT DAY were 1 in 10 million, that's still not really very improbable considering 5 million homes sold every year. What are the odds of hitting the powerball? One in 120 million? Yet people do it all the time, not only is there no need to bring in the supernatural to explain it happening, the statistics say that it HAS to happen. Just like with your house situation. So, no, I'm sorry, but your conclusion is not logical. It completely ignores rational thought and any consideration of probability whatsoever.
adwilk Audioholic Ninja Jan 23, 2006 4,815 0 113 43 Doug's Basement Sep 25, 2009 #409 django1 said: real estate facilitator. Click to expand... Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. There are millions of examples. And, things like that are not the reason we believe. Those things can sure strengthen our faith, but its not the foundation.
django1 said: real estate facilitator. Click to expand... Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. There are millions of examples. And, things like that are not the reason we believe. Those things can sure strengthen our faith, but its not the foundation.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #410 adwilk said: Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. There are millions of examples. .... Click to expand... Yes, but they are most likely of the same quality, not very good, not very thought provoking.
adwilk said: Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. There are millions of examples. .... Click to expand... Yes, but they are most likely of the same quality, not very good, not very thought provoking.
Davemcc Audioholic Spartan Jan 10, 2007 6,561 0 0 The Satellite of Love Sep 25, 2009 #411 CraigV said: Dave, If I may ask – Does a belief in one negate the other? In other words, could it be that “God” (or whichever name you prefer) simply put forth a “spark” that evolved and transformed into what we now call the universe, and consequently everything in it (including human kind), but had no further interaction to change/control/create the out come? Click to expand... I guess that would be a valid hypothesis. All you need now is some evidence that such a being exists. Without the existence of such a being, the hypothesis cannot be supported.
CraigV said: Dave, If I may ask – Does a belief in one negate the other? In other words, could it be that “God” (or whichever name you prefer) simply put forth a “spark” that evolved and transformed into what we now call the universe, and consequently everything in it (including human kind), but had no further interaction to change/control/create the out come? Click to expand... I guess that would be a valid hypothesis. All you need now is some evidence that such a being exists. Without the existence of such a being, the hypothesis cannot be supported.
Davemcc Audioholic Spartan Jan 10, 2007 6,561 0 0 The Satellite of Love Sep 25, 2009 #412 JerryLove said: There might be underpants gnomes, though the evidence fails to bear that out and it would be unjustified to believe there were. Click to expand... The Human Gnome Project is one the largest scientific research projects in modern history and has had considerable success in mapping DNA and applying that research to health care. If that project fails to find credible evidence that Gnomes exist, then I'm sure no evidence will ever be found. Reactions: JerryLove
JerryLove said: There might be underpants gnomes, though the evidence fails to bear that out and it would be unjustified to believe there were. Click to expand... The Human Gnome Project is one the largest scientific research projects in modern history and has had considerable success in mapping DNA and applying that research to health care. If that project fails to find credible evidence that Gnomes exist, then I'm sure no evidence will ever be found.
Alex2507 Audioholic Slumlord Dec 29, 2006 18,125 0 113 Nunya Bidness Sep 25, 2009 #413 adwilk said: There are millions of examples. Click to expand... mtrycrafts said: Yes, but they are most likely of the same quality, not very good, not very thought provoking. Click to expand... Yes, but that's why they work for me. I'm a tad dim and will believe just about f^%&ing anything. Reactions: adwilk
adwilk said: There are millions of examples. Click to expand... mtrycrafts said: Yes, but they are most likely of the same quality, not very good, not very thought provoking. Click to expand... Yes, but that's why they work for me. I'm a tad dim and will believe just about f^%&ing anything.
N NicolasKL Full Audioholic Aug 1, 2008 397 0 28 Sep 25, 2009 #414 adwilk said: Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. Click to expand... It was one example of something that isn't very improbable happening. Things that aren't very improbable happen CONSTANTLY. There are millions of examples. Click to expand... I hope they're a LOT better than this one example. And, things like that are not the reason we believe. Those things can sure strengthen our faith, but its not the foundation. Click to expand... They shouldn't strengthen your faith one iota. There are six billion people on this planet. Something that has a 1 in 10,000 chance of happening, happening to one of them, shouldn't influence your faith at all. Something that on any given day has a 1/10,000 chance of happening, is going to happen to (on average) SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A DAY. 219 million people a year. Yet you want to trot it out as evidence for God? I'm sorry, but that is completely ridiculous, and illustrates a complete lack of logic or critical thinking. Something that has a one in a TRILLION chance of happening per day to a person is still going to happen to someone (again, on average), every 2 years (if I didn't botch a zero). I mean if 1 in 10,000 is "evidence" for God then one in a trillion would have to be incontrovertible proof for you, it would seem. Yet statistics say there's a 50/50 chance it's going to happen to SOMEONE every single year. Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
adwilk said: Eh, then you missed the point.. it was one example. Click to expand... It was one example of something that isn't very improbable happening. Things that aren't very improbable happen CONSTANTLY. There are millions of examples. Click to expand... I hope they're a LOT better than this one example. And, things like that are not the reason we believe. Those things can sure strengthen our faith, but its not the foundation. Click to expand... They shouldn't strengthen your faith one iota. There are six billion people on this planet. Something that has a 1 in 10,000 chance of happening, happening to one of them, shouldn't influence your faith at all. Something that on any given day has a 1/10,000 chance of happening, is going to happen to (on average) SIX HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE A DAY. 219 million people a year. Yet you want to trot it out as evidence for God? I'm sorry, but that is completely ridiculous, and illustrates a complete lack of logic or critical thinking. Something that has a one in a TRILLION chance of happening per day to a person is still going to happen to someone (again, on average), every 2 years (if I didn't botch a zero). I mean if 1 in 10,000 is "evidence" for God then one in a trillion would have to be incontrovertible proof for you, it would seem. Yet statistics say there's a 50/50 chance it's going to happen to SOMEONE every single year.
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #415 Alex2507 said: ... I'm a tad dim and will believe just about f^%&ing anything. Click to expand... I may have some great wire that is amazing, to sell you It might work when the system is off Let's talk turkey here, how much can you afford? Or, is that dimness caused by a fading light sourse?
Alex2507 said: ... I'm a tad dim and will believe just about f^%&ing anything. Click to expand... I may have some great wire that is amazing, to sell you It might work when the system is off Let's talk turkey here, how much can you afford? Or, is that dimness caused by a fading light sourse?
mtrycrafts Seriously, I have no life. Aug 19, 2004 23,548 0 113 Sep 25, 2009 #416 adwilk said: On an entirely unrelated note, I just realized how you have so many posts, mtrycrafts. You should try the Multi-quote. It really does exist and its results are quantifiable, and in your case, make a huge numerical difference... Click to expand... Thank. I tried it once but I don't have the hang of it yet. Give me the secret. By the way, take a look at Adam's count he might need it more Why not PM me your response may get lost in all these posts, seriously.
adwilk said: On an entirely unrelated note, I just realized how you have so many posts, mtrycrafts. You should try the Multi-quote. It really does exist and its results are quantifiable, and in your case, make a huge numerical difference... Click to expand... Thank. I tried it once but I don't have the hang of it yet. Give me the secret. By the way, take a look at Adam's count he might need it more Why not PM me your response may get lost in all these posts, seriously.
Alex2507 Audioholic Slumlord Dec 29, 2006 18,125 0 113 Nunya Bidness Sep 26, 2009 #417 mtrycrafts said: I may have some great wire that is amazing, to sell you Click to expand... I already bought some. Believe it or not, that was something that I gave away. We use to refer to it as circus wire because of it's multi colored, larger than life cross section. 12/4 with 272 strands / conductor of tinned OFC with a clear jacket so that you could see the twisted pairs. The + conductors had a blue dielectric. The trick to multi quote is that you have to hit quote at the end to get to the reply page. NicolasKL said: Things that aren't very probable happen CONSTANTLY. Click to expand... First of all 'FIXED'. Second of all, that's because God is everywhere.
mtrycrafts said: I may have some great wire that is amazing, to sell you Click to expand... I already bought some. Believe it or not, that was something that I gave away. We use to refer to it as circus wire because of it's multi colored, larger than life cross section. 12/4 with 272 strands / conductor of tinned OFC with a clear jacket so that you could see the twisted pairs. The + conductors had a blue dielectric. The trick to multi quote is that you have to hit quote at the end to get to the reply page. NicolasKL said: Things that aren't very probable happen CONSTANTLY. Click to expand... First of all 'FIXED'. Second of all, that's because God is everywhere.
N NicolasKL Full Audioholic Aug 1, 2008 397 0 28 Sep 26, 2009 #418 Alex2507 said: First of all 'FIXED'. Click to expand... No. Second of all, that's because God is everywhere. Click to expand... Or it's simple statistics, which some people don't seem to have a very firm grasp on. Which is the more logical explanation?
Alex2507 said: First of all 'FIXED'. Click to expand... No. Second of all, that's because God is everywhere. Click to expand... Or it's simple statistics, which some people don't seem to have a very firm grasp on. Which is the more logical explanation?
Davemcc Audioholic Spartan Jan 10, 2007 6,561 0 0 The Satellite of Love Sep 26, 2009 #419 NicolasKL said: Or it's simple statistics, which some people don't seem to have a very firm grasp on. Which is the more logical explanation? Click to expand... Alex only has a firm grasp on one thing. It's not theology or astronomy.
NicolasKL said: Or it's simple statistics, which some people don't seem to have a very firm grasp on. Which is the more logical explanation? Click to expand... Alex only has a firm grasp on one thing. It's not theology or astronomy.
zhimbo Audioholic General Mar 2, 2007 1,120 0 83 Ann Arbor, MI Sep 26, 2009 #420 Alex2507 said: First of all 'FIXED'. Click to expand... It is fixed, whether or not it's what NicolasKL meant (and it wasn't apparently). Let's suppose something has only a 1 in a million chance of happening to you today. That's pretty darn unlikely, right? Well, if it's true for everyone else, as well, that means about it will happen to about 300 people in the United States today, and about 6,500 people in the world. So, yeah, highly improbable things happen all the time.
Alex2507 said: First of all 'FIXED'. Click to expand... It is fixed, whether or not it's what NicolasKL meant (and it wasn't apparently). Let's suppose something has only a 1 in a million chance of happening to you today. That's pretty darn unlikely, right? Well, if it's true for everyone else, as well, that means about it will happen to about 300 people in the United States today, and about 6,500 people in the world. So, yeah, highly improbable things happen all the time.
