HSU VTF-TN1 vs Rythmik F18 for living room

[BoarMarket]

PSA EV1813, I had one and it was one of the best subs I ever had. Power Sound Audio

PSA was my third choice, although I didn't have one specific model in mind. Between their three 18" options, I like the EV1813M the best. Specs aside, how does the sound of the EV1813 compare to the VTF-TN1?

Edit: I realize this is just conjecture since you likely haven't owned both subs, but that's fine. You all (in this forum) have a lot more experience with subs than I do and can likely give a sense of how two subs might sound different from one another. Even if you're just guessing, your guess is likely much better than mine.

 

[isolar8001]

PSA was my third choice, although I didn't have one specific model in mind. Between their three 18" options, I like the EV1813M the best. Specs aside, how does the sound of the EV1813 compare to the VTF-TN1?

Edit: I realize this is just conjecture since you likely haven't owned both subs, but that's fine. You all (in this forum) have a lot more experience with subs than I do and can likely give a sense of how two subs might sound different from one another. Even if you're just guessing, your guess is likely much better than mine.

Shady J says it best...no one knows what a particular sub will do until you put it in your room, with your equipment and your ears.

 

[BoarMarket]

Shady J says it best...no one knows what a particular sub will do until you put it in your room, with your equipment and your ears.

Right. Well, if going out on the market and buying 2, 3, or 4 subs to bring them home and compare them was an option, I would have done that. Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury.

 

[TLS Guy]

PSA was my third choice, although I didn't have one specific model in mind. Between their three 18" options, I like the EV1813M the best. Specs aside, how does the sound of the EV1813 compare to the VTF-TN1?

Edit: I realize this is just conjecture since you likely haven't owned both subs, but that's fine. You all (in this forum) have a lot more experience with subs than I do and can likely give a sense of how two subs might sound different from one another. Even if you're just guessing, your guess is likely much better than mine.

Not sure you have to guess. I think you can predict what a sub will do pretty much, from the design and measurements like Shady provides. A sub is actually the easiest speaker to predict.

That HSU sub is excellent value for money for what it delivers and a couple of those, both ports open, would I think make almost anyone happy. You are starting to make a ten course meal out of this.

I will not, except under exceptional circumstances design a speaker I can not measure and hear. However, with subs I am prepared to do that and have for a number of members over the years. I don't think any were disappointed. I think a subs performance is relatively predictable.

 

[Matt34]

PSA was my third choice, although I didn't have one specific model in mind. Between their three 18" options, I like the EV1813M the best. Specs aside, how does the sound of the EV1813 compare to the VTF-TN1?

Edit: I realize this is just conjecture since you likely haven't owned both subs, but that's fine. You all (in this forum) have a lot more experience with subs than I do and can likely give a sense of how two subs might sound different from one another. Even if you're just guessing, your guess is likely much better than mine.

I had the 1st Gen VTF-15 years ago and the VTF 3 mk 5 more recently. I think the PSA will have substantially more output above 25-30hz, while the TN-1 will have a little more output below 20hz.
I enjoyed the PSA for music more than any other sub I had. Those B&C woofers are pretty awesome IMO.

 

[isolar8001]

Right. Well, if going out on the market and buying 2, 3, or 4 subs to bring them home and compare them was an option, I would have done that. Unfortunately, I don't have that luxury.

No one has that luxury.
Im pretty active on AVS...except for the speaker threads, even though I've been dealing with speakers personally and professionally for 55 years.
The reason for that is that all those "what should I buy" threads come down to objective opinions, and then ramble on forever.
I used to tell my customers to buy whatever strikes their fancy, wouldn't even get into endless hours of comparing specs and features.
Whatever they bought from the shops I was at was quality equipment.

Like TLS Guy just said, you are making a ten course meal out of this.
Just buy a sub.All that were suggested are good designs and are good quality. Your room will determine the sound.

If I were you, I would dump your whole system and start over...your AVR is old and a weak one at that, and your speakers are bargain level entry models.
If you are unhappy with whatever sub you buy, you have to look at the system as a whole.

 

[TLS Guy]

No one has that luxury.
Im pretty active on AVS...except for the speaker threads, even though I've been dealing with speakers personally and professionally for 55 years.
The reason for that is that all those "what should I buy" threads come down to objective opinions, and then ramble on forever.
I used to tell my customers to buy whatever strikes their fancy, wouldn't even get into endless hours of comparing specs and features.
Whatever they bought from the shops I was at was quality equipment.

Like TLS Guy just said, you are making a ten course meal out of this.
Just buy a sub.All that were suggested are good designs and are good quality. Your room will determine the sound.

If I were you, I would dump your whole system and start over...your AVR is old and a weak one at that, and your speakers are bargain level entry models.
If you are unhappy with whatever sub you buy, you have to look at the system as a whole.

I couldn't agree more. This system needs a revamp from top to bottom, as far as I can tell, and the sub is the least of his worries and concerns.

 

[BoarMarket]

I purchased a VTF-TN1. I'm surprised--it doesn't have as much output as I was expecting. It has more output than my previous sub but not by a huge amount. The Infinity at 100% volume is comparable to the HSU at 60% volume. Although the increase in depth (lower frequencies) is substantial. I'm hearing new tonality to my media for the first time.

With a single sub, the sound fills my room pretty well. On top of that, I'm pleased that the sound doesn't reach my neighbors. I've asked them specifically to report anything they hear, but they haven't reported anything yet, which is good. And that's with 90 decibels at my listening position. So, two sets of walls separated by 6 feet (distance between houses) does a lot to dampen sound.

In terms of what the HSU might be lacking for my taste, I could go for more depth. Perhaps I'll look for more test content with low frequency audio bytes. It's kinda hard to know what I might be missing without being able to hear it first (because I don't know that it's there).

 

[shadyJ]

I purchased a VTF-TN1. I'm surprised--it doesn't have as much output as I was expecting. It has more output than my previous sub but not by a huge amount. The Infinity at 100% volume is comparable to the HSU at 60% volume. Although the increase in depth (lower frequencies) is substantial. I'm hearing new tonality to my media for the first time.

With a single sub, the sound fills my room pretty well. On top of that, I'm pleased that the sound doesn't reach my neighbors. I've asked them specifically to report anything they hear, but they haven't reported anything yet, which is good. And that's with 90 decibels at my listening position. So, two sets of walls separated by 6 feet (distance between houses) does a lot to dampen sound.

In terms of what the HSU might be lacking for my taste, I could go for more depth. Perhaps I'll look for more test content with low frequency audio bytes. It's kinda hard to know what I might be missing without being able to hear it first (because I don't know that it's there).

The Hsu should have way more output. If it doesn't, you just aren't puashing it that hard. But of you weren't maxing out your Infinity, there is no way you are maxing out the Hsu.

 

[Matt34]

I purchased a VTF-TN1. I'm surprised--it doesn't have as much output as I was expecting. It has more output than my previous sub but not by a huge amount. The Infinity at 100% volume is comparable to the HSU at 60% volume. Although the increase in depth (lower frequencies) is substantial. I'm hearing new tonality to my media for the first time.

With a single sub, the sound fills my room pretty well. On top of that, I'm pleased that the sound doesn't reach my neighbors. I've asked them specifically to report anything they hear, but they haven't reported anything yet, which is good. And that's with 90 decibels at my listening position. So, two sets of walls separated by 6 feet (distance between houses) does a lot to dampen sound.

In terms of what the HSU might be lacking for my taste, I could go for more depth. Perhaps I'll look for more test content with low frequency audio bytes. It's kinda hard to know what I might be missing without being able to hear it first (because I don't know that it's there).

The placement of the sub in your room is probably probably having a negative effect in the room response. If you can, try it in different locations with music you're familiar with if you don't have access to a mic and measurement software. Even a free SPL meter on your phone to level match it to your mains would be a good start.

 

[isolar8001]

The reason for that is that all those "what should I buy" threads come down to objective opinions, and then ramble on forever.

I meant to say subjective here....at least I dont mix up "there" with "their".

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I meant to say subjective here....at least I dont mix up "there" with "their".

Or they’re

 

[BoarMarket]

I'm fine with the output volume, I just wish it dug a little deeper. I'm more satisfied tonight after further testing. I plugged one port which helps a bit.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm fine with the output volume, I just wish it dug a little deeper. I'm more satisfied tonight after further testing. I plugged one port which helps a bit.

Your problem is that your main speakers are not very powerful. Most of what is perceived as bass is actually above sub range. It is a common fault with audio systems that the subs are more powerful than the rest of the system.

The other issue is that only large pipe organs with 32' pipes have a large bass output below 30 Hz. That is actually around the lower limit of the double bass and the large bass drum. Movie special effects go to 20 Hz and below.

So a lot depends on your source and the power of your mains above 80 Hz or so. 100 to 200 Hz is NOT midrange, but bass and actually sounds pretty deep. Mid range really starts above 400 Hz. The major bass power band of most musical sources is actually 80 to 400 Hz. I would say these days speakers with slim cabinets and small drivers are significantly lacking in power in this band and actually right up to 1500 Hz or so and often a bit beyond that. Audiologists know that, as if you start to loose hearing below 1500 Hz, you start to become profoundly deaf and can't follow speech well without aids. 1500 Hz is the crucial turnover frequency when hearing loss starts to become a significant problem.

I am absolutely convinced that most speaker designers have no clue as to where the power frequency relationships are. No clue at all.

 

[BoarMarket]

Your problem is that your main speakers are not very powerful.

That's very astute. Yes, I agree that the bass on my mains is lacking. In fact, if I had to pick between which I wanted more, improved bass output on my mains or deeper bass in my subs, I would pick the former (improved bass output on my mains). However, my current upgrade is subs only so I'm focused on that. If I think that, in five years, I'll have wished I had gotten subs with deeper extension, then I should, right now, get subs with deeper extension. I'm not sure that my opinion on my sub would change much if I had improved mains. Other than that one concern, I'm really taking a liking to the HSU. If I keep it, I'll get a second one.

I should add, that in listening to music, I notice that the sub has a really strong listening field to about a 6 foot radius. That field weakens between 6 and 10 feet. At 10 feet, the bass frequencies seem to have mostly dropped off (I can't feel them anymore). That's my subjective experience and it could be heavily dependent on the content that I'm playing, of course. In my case I'm listening to fast-paced dance music.

I'm thinking that my next upgrade (after 2 subs) will be either my center channel or my AVR/receiver. Those seem to be the next weak points. So far, upgrading the sub has improved my listening experience dramatically so I think I chose well (to upgrade my sub and not a different component). And before that it was my TV. My previous TV was manufactured in 2007. Just replaced it this year. Another noticeable upgrade!

 

[lovinthehd]

Entirely normal for sound to drop off the further you get away from a speaker. Drop of 6dB per doubling of distance is the formula. Multiple subs can smooth the response and spl somewhat vs a single sub, too. Upgrading one thing at a time isn't a bad thing, and your priorities are your own. I'd concentrate on speakers before electronics generally.

 

[BoarMarket]

Just wanted to give an update.

I purchased another TN1 for the living room, so have a set of 2. I also purchased a Rythmik L12 for my office. I gotta say, I'm super impressed with how musical the Rythmik sub is. Of course it doesn't have as much output as a single TN1 but it sounds beautiful. The TN1's are fantastic for home theater, but I feel that they're lacking on the music front. I don't know what's different between them and the Rythmik, but they don't sound the same. In hindsight, I wonder if I would have been a little happier with F18's in my living room. I like the vertical footprint of the TN1 better than the F18, but if the F18's sounded as beautiful as the L12's yet with more output...that would have been a chef's kiss. Although it's too late to return the HSU's now, I do enjoy them and plan to keep them. I just wanted to share my experience.

 

[Danzilla31]

Just wanted to give an update.

I purchased another TN1 for the living room, so have a set of 2. I also purchased a Rythmik L12 for my office. I gotta say, I'm super impressed with how musical the Rythmik sub is. Of course it doesn't have as much output as a single TN1 but it sounds beautiful. The TN1's are fantastic for home theater, but I feel that they're lacking on the music front. I don't know what's different between them and the Rythmik, but they don't sound the same. In hindsight, I wonder if I would have been a little happier with F18's in my living room. I like the vertical footprint of the TN1 better than the F18, but if the F18's sounded as beautiful as the L12's yet with more output...that would have been a chef's kiss. Although it's too late to return the HSU's now, I do enjoy them and plan to keep them. I just wanted to share my experience.

I think in that big of a living room especially since you don't mind buying once only and spending money to achieve it you need to go with 2 Rythmik FV18'S in that room space. You will not regret it. And yes their is something addictive about the sound signature of a Rythmik. Many owners have told me about this I was skeptical until I experienced it for myself

I bought 2 Rythmik FV 18's for my theater and loved them so much I bought 3 more so I have a total of 4 in that room

I've never had an issue with any of my Rythmiks don't let the comments about servo subs are known to have problems etc etc get to you. Myself and most owners don't have issues with these subs.

But Rythmik customer service is so good that even if you did you won't be dissatisfied or disappointed.

This summer Rythmiks supplier delivered them a bad capacitor nothing they could do about that. Instead of making buyers send the subs in. Bryan the owner set up appointments to every owner that had purchased that serial batch of subs affected across the entire US. And flew and drove to every owner and replaced the capacitor himself on their dime and their time

Not very many companies that will treat you like that

I've owned RBH SVS RSL and other good sub brands and Ive listened to Harbottles JTR Funk Sunroof and and just about any other high end subs you can think of

And Rythmik is right up their with the best of them I love my Rythmiks

But if you go for it with the Rythmiks go with the FV 18's in that room size not the F 18

I'm telling you you won't regret it

 

[Danzilla31]