Immigration, or illegal entry?

[Johnd]

One thing that got my goat were the pictures of Mexican protesters near the Los Angeles veterans cemetery, burning the American flag. Where were the cops to arrest these guys? Where were the legal Americans to beat the crap out of these guys. I'm Canadian and still this really upset me.

Your passion is colorful, but your solutions are not well received. It is not a crime to burn the flag in our country (though most Americans consider it...distasteful). Nor is it permissible, or desirable, for veterans to cheeerfully beat to a pulp those that choose to burn the flag. We are a country of tolerance.

Nonetheless, I see your point, and agree. Isn't it ironic to have immigrants, let alone illegal immigrants, burning our flag? I shudder the thought of them doing that in their home country.

 

[toquemon]

Please name one person these people have killed. They have killed no one and harmed no one. They are just their to enforce the laws currently in place. They simply turn illegals over to the border patrol to have them deported. They are actually hospitable in most cases, giving them water and sometimes food. Do not believe everything a government media complex spews forth.

Annunaki, please, stop watching CNN, Fox News or whatever, you know...
At least 3 mexicans were killed by the nazi group named "the minutemen" in the last year... like dogs...

 

[Johnd]

Toquemon: I've heard nothing of the sort. I read the Times, Tribune, Post, AP and watch BBC and ARD. If the minutemen executed three people, please post. That is not only newsworthy, but criminal (and would need to be investigated, if true).

 

[toquemon]

It is impermissible for immigants to own land in Mexico. Period. Toquemon...living in Mexico City, I thought you'd be aware of this. What is permissible is leasing the land.

Another impermissible in Mexico is that no immigrant can ever hold public office. Ever. Even if one immigrated at age two. Gov. Schwarzenegger, who emigrated at age 17, is able to hold any public office in America, just not the presidency.

1. About first paragraph, you're wrong, the Constitution of the Mexican Republic says what you're stating, but in the practice, the Hiltons own their lands in Cancun... I don't know with Constitution is most violated, yours or mine...

2. About the second paragraph, you're wrong again, if your parents were born in Mexico, you can hold every public office, except the Presidency.

 

[Audioholics]

I call BS on the three Mexicans killed bit... back that up or retract it.

 

[toquemon]

I call BS on the three Mexicans killed bit... back that up or retract it.

Ok, let me back it up with the mexican press...

 

[toquemon]

These were the firt news:

http://www.radioformula.com.mx/rf2001.asp?ID2=39175

Later, I will show you that the people inside the van were members of the nazi group called "the minutemen".

 

[ForMiseri]

Serious Charges!

Who are the assasins? Names? How do you know these people who were killed were involved in OTHER ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES such as the DRUG TRADE? Further, what were the names of the people purportedly killed? Do you believe everything you read? The bottom line is that no matter how unfortunate the loss of human life the fact remains that if you involve yourself in ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY you can be seriously injured or killed. I don't hear you complaining about the Mexican coyotes who lead ILLEGAL ALIENS into the desert to die and take their pesos or the people who pack so many people in the back of a truck that they suffocate. Those ARE THE FACTS!

 

[markw]

Well, looky here. The "official" guide to immigrating to Mexico.

1. About first paragraph, you're wrong, the Constitution of the Mexican Republic says what you're stating, but in the practice, the Hiltons own their lands in Cancun... I don't know with Constitution is most violated, yours or mine...

http://www.mexperience.com/liveandwork/immigration.htm#Citizen

It appears that only the following are allowed to immigrate to Mexico: Retirees, Investors, Professionals, Scientists, Technicians, Artists and Sportspeople.

None of these look like unskilled labor to me.

As for working in Mexico, here'sa snippet from that publication:

"Is it legal for a foreigner to work in Mexico?

Yes, provided that you have the right permit. You are not permitted to travel to Mexico, enter as a tourist and seek gainful employment there. You must have the correct migratory permits to do so before you go.

Permits are gained from the Mexican Government and are issued to people who are sponsored by companies in Mexico (or foreign companies with Mexican operations / subsidiaries), or by people with specific skills required in Mexico. You can enter Mexico to work for a foreign company provided that you do not receive any remuneration directly from a Mexican company or subsidiary. Permits can also be arranged for investors (i.e. setting up your own company), but you'll need to invest 40,000 times the daily minimum salary in order to qualify. Casual investors (for example, buying stocks on the Mexican Stock Exchange) can also get resident permits, although as with direct investment, you will need to invest the same amount as above.

These mechanisms are in place to ensure that you will not be: a) taking jobs that Mexican nationals could otherwise have and/or; b) ensure that if you don't have an immediate income, you have the means to support yourself without relying on the Mexican State in any way."

2. About the second paragraph, you're wrong again, if your parents were born in Mexico, you can hold every public office, except the Presidency.

If your parents were born in Mexico, you're not an immigrant, are you?

...or does that stigma follow your family for generation upon generation?

 

[Johnd]

Who are the assasins? Names?

The validity of the accusation has been challenged by Clint. It seems if it goes unsupported, that post will be removed.

Such a serious accusation against a known group of people ought to always be corroborated with some credible evidence.

 

[markw]

These were the firt news:

http://www.radioformula.com.mx/rf2001.asp?ID2=39175

Later, I will show you that the people inside the van were members of the nazi group called "the minutemen".

Minutemen are not necessarially nazis. To say that is like saying that every mexican crossing the border is a drug smuggler.

 

[Johnd]

It appears that only the following are allowed to immigrate to Mexico:

Obviously, immigration policies of Mexico and the US cannot be compared. Non-citizens have very few, if any rights in Mexico. The US has given non-citizens and illegals many rights for decades. One needs to be armed with much information before travelling or spending extended stays in Mexico, or you run a serious risk of being treated "unfairly" (to put it mildly). The same cannot be said for travelling in the US.

Any other ideas on:
1. Immigration Policy (other than enforcing our current laws, which would go a long way in correcting the current debacle);
2. Border Protection (other than the current supply of border police, minutemen, and soon-to-be 6,000 National Guardsmen); and,
3. What to do with 12,000,000+ illegals?

 

[markw]

True

Obviously, immigration policies of Mexico and the US cannot be compared.

But yet, here he is trying to do so and, in the process, demonizing the US with innuendo and outright lies. Demanding that illegals from his country be given services that Ameican citizens have to work and pay for.

A few facts thrown in his face just might wake him up but, somehow, I doubt it. Perhaps that's the problem with the whole country? Expecting others to pay for them?

 

[Johnd]

Minutemen are not necessarially nazis.

markw: I would venture to say that "Minutemen are not Nazis." Such a comparison trivializes the role that group of fascists had on world peace and order in the 1930's and 1940's.

I have not personally met any Minutemen, but I have heard their Director speak on a number of occasions, as well as some brief interviews of assorted Minutemen. They strike me as a patriotic group that is intent on protecting our borders and seeking enforcement of our immigration laws.

There is no ethnic cleansing about their purpose (that I have heard). Nor have I read any credible reports that the Miutemen have killed anyone, nor even injured anyone. To respond to such inane comments seems to validate the incredulous premise, imho.

 

[Johnd]

I just find it galling that this guy is saying how great Mexico is while demonizing the US. Demanding that illegals from his country be given services that Ameican citizens have to work and pay for.

A few facts thrown in his face just might wake him up but, somehow, I doubt it. Perhaps that's the problem with the whole country?

I say let him. He's allowed to in this country. He is in Mexico, so it is far less offensive than those statements coming from an illegal immigrant.

No matter how much I discuss this topic, or post here, I cannot get out of my mind the image of Mexican immigrants protesting US immigration policy by burning the American flag. They seemed to have ceased this practice, but that image will burn in my mind for a long time.

The next curious practice is waving the Mexican flag in protest. I don't know who organizes these protests, but they're five cans short of a six pack in my book. We want immigrants to assimilate, but not ever lose their ethnicity or individuality. That seems to be a challenge of late. Cheers.

 

[markw]

...No matter how much I discuss this topic, or post here, I cannot get out of my mind the image of Mexican immigrants protesting US immigration policy by burning the American flag. They seemed to have ceased this practice, but that image will burn in my mind for a long time.

Yours and many others. I think that protest served to polarize people, and not necessarially in their favor. It's one thing to rob someones house but to take a dump on the living room floor whild doing it is something else entirely.

The next curious practice is waving the Mexican flag in protest. .... We want immigrants to assimilate, but not ever lose their ethnicity or individuality.

Yep, immigrate and assimilate but there's no problem with maintaing one's traditions, as long as refusing to learn English isn't one of them. In fact, it's encouraged. I love having Brasilian in-laws, particularly around World Cup time. Of course, having a Brasilian wife is pretty nifty, too.

Did you know that the Christmas tree is a German tradition imported to America ?

 

[ForMiseri]

Exactly

These people are ridiculous. These images are burned into my mind as well. I find their behavior repugnant. We are indeed being invaded from our southern border and have been for a long time now. Frankly, I see nothing wrong with laying land mines along the border and posting a strong militia force supplemented by the border states National Guard units. I at times get so fed-up with the oh-so politically correct and those who fail to find tough solutions to tough problems such as this.

 

[Audioholics]

These were the firt news:

http://www.radioformula.com.mx/rf2001.asp?ID2=39175

Later, I will show you that the people inside the van were members of the nazi group called "the minutemen".

That article says 3 Mexicans were killed. That's like blaming the most recent murder cases in New York City on Al Qa'ida. You have not proven anything other than you are set to prove your agenda.

I would strongly recommend everyone in this thread put you on "ignore".

 

[Resident Loser]

A typical ploy...

...of the liberal, PC crowd is to demonize those who are for some semblance of law and order is to refer to them as Nazis or racists...

If we really, really wanted to stanch the flow of illegals, we should go after those who knowingly employ them...you know those who ask no questions and pay 'em in cash...the greenbacks flow in the underground economy...No taxes or Social Security withheld...Off-the-books tranasactions aren't taxed either, if those employers have enough questionable income to pay out $$$ to the "day laborers", how much else might there be that is unreported on their 1040s...

And a big P.S.: It is said illegals only take jobs that Amercans don't want...next time you see new construction, take a guess who's nailin' things together...all them folks getting picked up at the Home Depot and Lowes, etc. in the wee small hours, that's who. Like it or not that facet of the economy hurts everyone...Do you think those who rely on labor-on-the-cheap are using first quality materials or follow safe work practices or follow proper construction methods? Might a corner or two have been cut?

Wanna' start the 11mill+ round up? Go to those places I mentioned and haul 'em off...arrest the people who employ them and check their books and their tax returns and their bank accounts...

jimHJJ(...non-PC and proud of it...)

 

[BMXTRIX]

You know, I don't care whether or not it was minutemen or otherwise. It has nothing to do with anything really, and anyone calling names and pointing fingers with unsubstantiated news should be ashamed of themselves. It is like getting all upset because a drug dealer was killed while dealing drugs so the public gets outraged - it's silly.

Should there be a wall? Absolutely! It doesn't need to be a physical wall, but it is quite clear that there is no respect for the borders to our South and that we can continue to be walked on, or we can lock the door.

We tried the 'trust' thing... hmmm... doesn't seem to be working so well.

So, close the border, enforce documenation, etc. for people who cross from the South into the USA. This is especially important considering the dealings we have with terrorism right now and the increased national security we are trying to put in place.

What to do with those in our country? Well, first of all, it must be a global answer - it can't pertain to JUST Mexicans, but to all illegal immigrants. This is only fair to all current illegal immigrants who are working just as hard as Mexicans within our borders. Then we have to set some policy that makes sense. This is not something I have a clear answer on - and there is NO perfect answer as far as I can tell.

As for companies employing illegals - it is not appropriate for law enforcement to suddenly come along and start punishing companies NOW after years of completely failing to enforce or act upon laws. Moving forward though, law enforcement MUST act. They must not just go after future illegals (of all nationalities), but deal appropriately with their employers. Illegals who are willing to work far below minimum wage ARE taking jobs from Americans. This should not be the case - the wages are supposed to be higher. That's the law. The people employed are supposed to pay taxes. That is the law. The employer is supposed to pay certain taxes as well. That, once again, is the law.

If some of the lower skilled jobs and manual labor jobs were offerred at minimum wage, there would be more Americans willing to take those jobs, but employers - going after cash - are willing to ignore the law to enhance their bottom line.

As far as I can tell it is the police of this country, the border patrol, and our national government who may FINALLY be actually trying to enforce a law they have ignored for far to many years. Seems to make a lot of sense to me.

Oh - and the LAST thing any Mexican should be doing is telling us how it should be done. This should be done in the best interest of the USA, not in Mexicos best interest, or the illegal immigrants best interest - it should be done to protect and enhance our nation. This may irritate some, but most countries tend to be self-serving - which is the only statements that I have heard from illegals up to this point - self-serving.