Immigration, or illegal entry?

[mustang_steve]

I've been reading all of your posts to have a general idea of what do americans think about us, the mexicans, invading your country.

This is a really difficult issue, because both countries are responsible. Mexico can't generate all the jobs needed and those that ordinary people can get, are bad paid. Imagine a person earning 1 dollar a day. I know, you americans, aren't guilty of that situation... But,

American economy was, for at least 100 years, sustained by slavery. The way I see it, illegal inmigrants are the modern slaves and THEY DO SUSTAIN YOUR ECONOMY. Because of the salary that is being paid to the illegals, WalMart (and other big companies) can offer lower prices.

Illegal inmigrants are important to your economy.

On the other hand, I think its divine justice that mexicans are invading all the south of the USA. That territory was from Mexico like 150 years ago...

This comment isn't intended to offend anyone, you can see it as a joke if you like.

The american ecomonomy was not completely sustained by slavery...it was primarily in the south, where a minority of the citizens lived.

As for sustaining the economy...I don't see it that way either. What I do see are a bunch of sunshine capitalists, who in the name of capitalism, are willing to create jobs that americans won't fill, due to how low the pay is, working conditions, etc...so they don't have to deal with paying a fair wage by the national standard. Stopping illegal immigration will kill off some businesses, but only the dishonest ones who used illegal labor.

Downside to this is it will raise the price of some goods, but oh well. Nothing worth having in this world is cheap. Something I learned a long time ago.

I don't see it as any kind of justice. Justice would be getting things fixed in Mexico. However, it seems the entire world would rather immigrate than fix the problems in their own lands. The lack of patriotism is just sad. Feel some pride in your nation, and try to make it a better place.

As for the jobs in Mexico that don't pay well....why are they not paying well? Who is pocketing the cash that should be going to the worker? Or are they just not asking enough from the customer? There is something amiss there, and it needs fixed.

 

[Johnd]

You've made some good points Steve. And isn't curious that the illegal (Mexican) immigrants, as well as some patriots who choose to reside in their indigenous country, eloquently state all of their problems with the US, but lack that eloquence when speaking of their problems with Mexico?

I guess it's understood that they're coming to the US in search for a better life, (because that is very difficult to achieve in Mexico). Isn't that the very meaning of "looking a gift horse in the mouth?"

I understand that if they fail to complain, the US will pass laws, and the illegals will be deported. Why are they not arguing for change in Mexico?

 

[Johnd]

So we should treat illegal mexican immigration different from say, asian or middle eastern illegal immigration? That's just inacceptable, and ultimately racist, as it is basically separating people by the color of their skin.

It's not that simple. We only border with two other countries. Our largest illegal immigration population is Mexican. Our biggest ongoing immigration problem (now, and in the foreseeable future) is with Mexico.

I think we need to tighten up border patrol, deport some of the illegals, and work with the others via the 7-11 citizenship path. We cannot simply deport them all...the US doesn't do that. Nor, do I think, can we give amnesty to all illegals...as that would be unfair to others. (emphasis added due to my prior posting of this position).

 

[mustang_steve]

I agree, we just cannot deport millions of people....it's a logistical nightmare.

One idea that might work is if they can prove they were already here long enough to earn their citizenship, but just need to take the tests, etc....give them that opportunity. That way, it's a reasonable compromise.

 

[Johnd]

My only problem with that proposal is that it fails to track the illegal's activity. One reason for a 7-11 year citizenship process is to first ascertain that the applicant can follow US rules, and not break any laws during the process; if they break rules or laws while being scrutinized, imagine what they will do when not being watched.

The simple taking of a test, or amnesty, I think should be allowed only for a small number of Illegal Mexicans (perhaps, 250,000, 500,000 or 1,000,000). The remainder ought to be deported or made to follow the 7-11 year path to citizenship that our laws mandate.

 

[toquemon]

Annunaki,

I respectfully disagree with you. That territory was from Mexico. I don't know if you remember your history lessons, but in 1847 the American Army invaded Mexico City. As a result of that invasion, we lost those territories.

The USA is a country of inmigrants. It's culture is a mixture of cultures. Why, if your great-great parents emigrated from their birth-countries to achieve a better life, you don't wanna give that same opportunity to other people?.

Why salaries are low here in Mexico?, well, I don't know... What I do know is that if I were working in the USA doing exactly the same thing that I'm doing here in Mexico, I would be earning twice.

 

[markw]

I'm not Annuki, but here's my take on your observations.

The USA is a country of immigrants. It's culture is a mixture of cultures.

True that. ...and it was made great by those cultures blending in, not segregating and demanding the country change for them. If the old country was so great that they want to make this country into that, then they should simply go home.

Why, if your great-great parents emigrated from their birth-countries to achieve a better life, you don't wanna give that same opportunity to other people?

Again, the point you continually seem to miss is that our great-great grandparents asked to come here. When they did arrive here, with permission I might add, they didn't ask anything from anyone except a job.

But, the key element here is that they did NOT sneak in here and demand rights. They asked permission to enter and then worked for their rights and respect. They also learned English and tried to fit in rather than demanding the country bend to accommodate them. the Germans did it.. The Italians did it. Africans are doing it. Asians are doing it today as are the Eastern Indians, Pakistanis, and everyone else except for the Latinos from South of the Border.

Why salaries are low here in Mexico?, well, I don't know... What I do know is that if I were working in the USA doing exactly the same thing that I'm doing here in Mexico, I would be earning twice.

I suggest you take that up with your President Fox. It seems that he's quite content sending his citizens (not ours. mind you) up here and having them protest against the US not taking care of them, as if we are the cause of his problems. I'v even heard reports of him whipping up the anti-US frenzy there in his speeches.

OH, FWIW, my wife is from Brasil and speaks perfect English, as do the rest of her brothers. Neither they nor their parents expected classes to be taught in their native language. They learned well enough English before coming here that they fit right into mainstream classes. They all blend in perfectly with American society. They maintain their own traditions but respect their new country for what it is.

 

[Johnd]

Neither they nor their parents expected classes to be taught in their native language. They learned well enough English before coming here that they fit right into mainstream classes.

There's another idea. Perhaps some illegal Mexican immigrants could earn their resident status, and eventually citizenship, by teaching Mexican immigrants (awaiting citizenship) the English language. And perhaps, even some Americans the Spanish language.

I'm all for individuality and cultural diversity. I think America needs to have one national language: English. And our schools ought to teach in English, unless it's a language course. It would also be good to mandate trilingualism in high schools, rather than bilingualism.

 

[toquemon]

I suggest you take that up with your President Fox.

Well, I preffer to sneak into your country.... (it's a joke)

I don't know who's more of an idiot, your president or mine...

I can't rely on politicians to solve my problems. I rely only in myself.

 

[Johnd]

Well, I preffer to sneak into your country.... (it's a joke)

I don't know who's more of an idiot, your president or mine...

I can't rely on politicians to solve my problems. I rely only in myself.

I don't know that either one is an "idiot".

They were both elected by their own people. (I know, I know, I've already been scolded about the electoral college). And they will both continue to do as they wish, (under the mandate, or, the guise of the people's will, depending on which camp you're from) until enough of the populace urges/persuades them otherwise.

Such as
1) 100,000 union workers in Mexico City (last week) may not be quite enough to persuade President Fox to enforce better labor laws and higher wages, and
2) 3 or 4 outspoken protesters (this past Sunday) may not be quite enough to persuade President Bush to "get out of Iraq", or, in their words, that he misled and lied to us about the justifications for warring with Iraq.

 

[annunaki]

My ancestors immigrated to this country LEGALLY, by the book, in the late 1700's and early to mid 1800's. No where have I said immigration should be done away with. Illegal immigration needs to stop. If all of those that came here illegally had done it legally, I would have no issue. My problem is with illegal aliens wanting and receiving the same treatment as legal residents.

Those territories originally belonged to Native American Indians. I memory serves me correctly, they controlled the area quite fiercely in some cases. Mexico saying it was theirs originally is more politics than anything else.

Annunaki,

I respectfully disagree with you. That territory was from Mexico. I don't know if you remember your history lessons, but in 1847 the American Army invaded Mexico City. As a result of that invasion, we lost those territories.

The USA is a country of inmigrants. It's culture is a mixture of cultures. Why, if your great-great parents emigrated from their birth-countries to achieve a better life, you don't wanna give that same opportunity to other people?.

Why salaries are low here in Mexico?, well, I don't know... What I do know is that if I were working in the USA doing exactly the same thing that I'm doing here in Mexico, I would be earning twice.

 

[markw]

Spain stole Mexiclo from the indiginous peoples,...

My ancestors immigrated to this country LEGALLY, by the book, in the late 1700's and early to mid 1800's. No where have I said immigration should be done away with. Illegal immigration needs to stop. If all of those that came here illegally had done it legally, I would have no issue. My problem is with illegal aliens wanting and receiving the same treatment as legal residents.

Those territories originally belonged to Native American Indians. I memory serves me correctly, they controlled the area quite fiercely in some cases. Mexico saying it was theirs originally is more politics than anything else.

Mexico then stole the land from the American Indians and then sold that land to the US of A when money was tight.

So, we bought that land, fair and square. from the people who stole it from the original owners.

 

[ForMiseri]

Jobs we won't do? You have got to be kidding! That is down right insulting. period. I have shoveled horse manure for .50 cents an hour, cleaned toilets for minimum wage, washed dishes and currently employed by Wal-Mart at $6.80 an hour. I do what I have to do. No health care for me!

 

[Johnd]

Thank you Formiseri. Just because there are some Americans that refuse to do "distasteful" of "unenviable" work, does not mean all Americans refuse to do them. We don't all sit in Ivory Towers eating bon-bons laughing at the minions doing our work for us. There is no shortage of hard-working Americans (that just do their job and don't complain about it).

 

[markw]

this just in

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/5/13/93547.shtml?s=icp

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

But I enjoy laughing at my minions as they toil themselves to death in my salt mines!

 

[ForMiseri]

Thank You as well! I do believe I have been compared to a slinky as well as a snivelling minion John! What is your take?

 

[markw]

my take?

Don't take the sig personally. It's the same on every post. Openly worrying about it only draws attention to your own personal insecurities, which is not wise. I do believe that most of here have worked schlitty jobs for less pay than we want to think about.

 

[Johnd]

This just in...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/15/washington/15bush.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

And don't forget President Bush's speech tonight on this very same topic.

 

[ForMiseri]

Didn't take it personally, really! Just found it amusing is all. Actually all debate is good for the soul. No offense taken!