i need some advice on my next sub!

[Pogre]

only because music is all that i am really interested in.

I swear I thought someone mentioned something about this myth in this thread somewhere....

You're giving up better performance for a smaller box. Sealed subs are not, NOT better for music. If anything worse, if you happen to like music with truly deep bass. They are a compromise with the ONLY advantage being small form factor. That's it. You gain no more musicality.

My apologies if that comes across as snippy. It's just that folks so often come here and ask for advice, we give it, and it seems like people don't even read the replies. If I have the room, I will ALWAYS go with ported, and I'm a music first guy. 85-90% of my listening is strictly 2 channel music. I bought all of my gear based around that principle. It needed to be awesome for music, first and foremost.

I've had both sealed and ported in my room. I started with sealed because, just like you, I thought they'd be better for music. I was advised of the myth, gave ported a shot, and I will never again own a sealed sub. The difference in performance was eye opening and my music never sounded better.

 

[jsf0656]

I was just teasing due your remark about you don't care about shipping costs.

Speaking of which, with the SVS they offer basically a free in-home trial (with them paying shipping both ways). The others don't offer that. All are good subs but I tend to like a larger driver myself (mine are 18"), as they say there's no replacement for displacement

i dont really mind paying shipping charges as long as i am confident i made the right decision.

 

[Pogre]

i stated that because i keep hearing that the sealed subs is your best option but then i keep hearing that a good ported one will be just as good....confused!

See my post #41.

That may have been the case 40 or 50 years ago, but modern tech and computer modeling have eliminated those issues of old. Well designed, modern ported subs are just as musical as a sealed sub, with deeper bass capability. There are just a bunch of audiots out there who won't accept it and keep thumping the sealed is better for music drum.

 

[jsf0656]

I swear I thought someone mentioned something about this myth in this thread somewhere....

You're giving up better performance for a smaller box. Sealed subs are not, NOT better for music. If anything worse, if you happen to like music with truly deep bass. They are a compromise with the ONLY advantage being small form factor. That's it. You gain no more musicality.

My apologies if that comes across as snippy. It's just that folks so often come here and ask for advice, we give it, and it seems like people don't even read the replies. If I have the room, I will ALWAYS go with ported, and I'm a music first guy. 85-90% of my listening is strictly 2 channel music. I bought all of my gear based around that principle. It needed to be awesome for music, first and foremost.

I've had both sealed and ported in my room. I started with sealed because, just like you, I thought they'd be better for music. I was advised of the myth, gave ported a shot, and I will never again own a sealed sub. The difference in performance was eye opening and my music never sounded better.

as i said when i started this thread that all of my previous subs were on the entry level side of quality and were all ported so i have never had any experience with sealed. so all the people i talked to from the companies i listed never mentioned a ported sub only sealed when i told them that music was my only priority.

 

[lovinthehd]

as i said when i started this thread that all of my previous subs were on the entry level side of quality and were all ported so i have never had any experience with sealed. so all the people i talked to from the companies i listed never mentioned a ported sub only sealed when i told them that music was my only priority.

They're salesmen telling you what you expected to hear perhaps? If you said you were looking for a sealed sub, they sold you a sealed sub....

 

[Pogre]

as i said when i started this thread that all of my previous subs were on the entry level side of quality and were all ported so i have never had any experience with sealed.

I may have confused this thread with another... sorry.

so all the people i talked to from the companies i listed never mentioned a ported sub only sealed when i told them that music was my only priority.

Still tho, I stand by all that being untrue. Just perpetuation of a common myth. I speaketh from experience as a music first guy. Just tryna help you make a good choice, either way. I'd go ported without hesitation.

 

[jsf0656]

then why do these sub companies all suggest sealed and never mention ported. do they make more money on sealed vs ported because that can really confuse a person who doesnt really have knowledge about the types of sub enclosures.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

They're salesmen telling you what you expected to hear perhaps? If you said you were looking for a sealed sub, they sold you a sealed sub....

I think it’s in the same vein as dual binding posts. Speaker builders keep including them to cater to a certain market. And AFAIK, in almost all cases, they go through the same passive XO anyway, so wtf...
Most of the time the two markets(believers and non believers) don’t overlap, except when they come to a forum. Like you said, it’s about sales and nobody wants to alienate part of their potential customer base.
Like sealed for example. They’re playing into the myth a little bit. They might even feel that way themselves, or simply be going on the idea that most music doesn’t have much content below 35hz. So is it A) sealed is “better”, or B) the user doesn’t need the extension? Idk.....
Ime, the majority of music is done by 30hz. However, I’ve always felt a different “weight” with large quality ported subs. Even if the content isn’t directly there.(subharmonics perhaps). Sealed subs can definitely be fantastic. But imo, ported wins the day. Especially when talking about comparable models.

 

[lovinthehd]

i dont really mind paying shipping charges as long as i am confident i made the right decision.

Shipping sealed subs would be cheaper, tho!

 

[Pogre]

then why do these sub companies all suggest sealed and never mention ported. do they make more money on sealed vs ported because that can really confuse a person who doesnt really have knowledge about the types of sub enclosures.

Just perpetuation of a common myth.

I will say in my personal experience working in retail management when a customer comes in with preconceived notions it's much easier to just agree and tell them what they want to hear to secure the sale.

 

[jsf0656]

They're salesmen telling you what you expected to hear perhaps? If you said you were looking for a sealed sub, they sold you a sealed sub....

when i talked to these companies i never mentioned a sealed sub. i said i was looking for a good sub that was good for music. thats it! and all three stated sealed ones were the best. so now i am back to square one!

 

[Pogre]

when i talked to these companies i never mentioned a sealed sub. i said i was looking for a good sub that was good for music. thats it! and all three stated sealed ones were the best. so now i am back to square one!

And it's this perpetual insistence that drives us crazy here. You're not at square one. You came to a well known, objective based, scientifically inclined audio site with a strong focus on bass, looking for subwoofer advice, and got some. Laying these myths to rest is at the core of what Audioholics do. "Truth in audio"!

There's lots of experience in this thread with folks who take music listening and great sounding audio to heart. The overwhelming majority of us here do not believe the sealed sub myth and speak from experience. Design and implementation are what counts.

 

[lovinthehd]

when i talked to these companies i never mentioned a sealed sub. i said i was looking for a good sub that was good for music. thats it! and all three stated sealed ones were the best. so now i am back to square one!

I thought you meant you said you only mentioned sealed the way I read the post I quoted, you've clarified that now.....

Some random thoughts for you: Consider that the differences in performance in general use between sealed/ported are very minor in a well designed sub in any case (and all of these qualify I think). Sealed can be smaller in size, so easier to position/move around/hide from the wife. With enough of them (i.e. sealed subs) you might dig a little deeper at meaningful spl but depends on your room to an extent as well as the particular sub. Some sealed subs shine in mid-bass over some ported designs. Ported are more efficient and need less/no dsp to shape response in lower bass.

 

[jsf0656]

i believe that it was the SVS guy that told me that since the music i listen to needed to have good mid bass response because this music does not dig as deep in the bass notes as other music like techno, jazz, etc. remember i like 70-80s rock.

 

[Pogre]

I thought you meant you said you only mentioned sealed the way I read the post I quoted, you've clarified that now.....

Some random thoughts for you: Consider that the differences in performance in general use between sealed/ported are very minor in a well designed sub in any case (and all of these qualify I think). Sealed can be smaller in size, so easier to position/move around/hide from the wife. With enough of them (i.e. sealed subs) you might dig a little deeper at meaningful spl but depends on your room to an extent as well as the particular sub. Some sealed subs shine in mid-bass over some ported designs. Ported are more efficient and need less dsp to shape response in lower bass.

And don't most all use dsp to some extent, including sealed? Which adds group delay, one of things that sealed proponents like to point to in ported designs. Both fall outside the realm of audibility in most cases and neither are meaningfully "better" for music than the other.

 

[Pogre]

i believe that it was the SVS guy that told me that since the music i listen to needed to have good mid bass response because this music does not dig as deep in the bass notes as other music like techno, jazz, etc. remember i like 70-80s rock.

I've half a mind to start a chat with SVS and give them a piece of my mind!

 

[jsf0656]

How loud do you like to listen?

The thing is, the music you listen to doesn't have much in the way of deep bass. In fact, I think you are looking at the wrong class of subwoofer here. From that bunch, I would go with the Hsu VTF-2 or SVS Pro series. They will have the most mid-bass output. But I don't think you need to spend that much. The music you listen to rarely digs below 50Hz. I think this subwoofer would be a viable alternative and save you a bunch of money. If you really like to jam, I would be looking at the Hsu ULS-15 mk2, which has a lot of mid-bass punch. A couple of these should have quite a bit of punch for the money as well.

 

[Pogre]

How loud do you like to listen?

The thing is, the music you listen to doesn't have much in the way of deep bass. In fact, I think you are looking at the wrong class of subwoofer here. From that bunch, I would go with the Hsu VTF-2 or SVS Pro series. They will have the most mid-bass output. But I don't think you need to spend that much. The music you listen to rarely digs below 50Hz. I think this subwoofer would be a viable alternative and save you a bunch of money. If you really like to jam, I would be looking at the Hsu ULS-15 mk2, which has a lot of mid-bass punch. A couple of these should have quite a bit of punch for the money as well.

The first sub Shady recommended to you is a ported sub, and I'll bet you that's what he's thinking with the SVS pro series too.

 

[jsf0656]

And it's this perpetual insistence that drives us crazy here. You're not at square one. You came to a well known, objective based, scientifically inclined audio site with a strong focus on bass, looking for subwoofer advice, and got some. Laying these myths to rest is at the core of what Audioholics do. "Truth in audio"!

There's lots of experience in this thread with folks who take music listening and great sounding audio to heart. The overwhelming majority of us here do not believe the sealed sub myth and speak from experience. Design and implementation are what counts.

this is why i came back to my original post. i did not want to jump into anything until i ran it by the guys on here because the suggestions i got from these companies were really confusing me that led me to believe that i had it all wrong!

 

[jsf0656]

The first sub Shady recommended to you is a ported sub...

i went back and read that.