Hot off the presses, Sound United is acquiring Onkyo/Pioneer

[gene]

You how Gene disappears sometimes we don't see him on the forum for a while, I bet he sneaks off on that boat with some of his Department of Defense buddy's to Cancun kicked back on the Beach drinking cold ones watching hot women in skimpy bikinis walking by.

Sounds like a cool guy. I'd like to meet him

 

[Phase 2]

Sounds like a cool guy. I'd like to meet him

Gene, I got way to much time on my hands. lol, You on the other hand most probably ain't got enough hours in the day. I don't believe it gets said enough, what You and your staff at Audioholics do for us in here. A very Big Thank You Sir for all the work that's put in on here!! And yes He is a very Cool guy in my book!!

Mike

 

[Phase 2]

How the mighty have fallen. I had some Polk model 7Bs back in the early 80s and they might be the best sounding speakers I ever owned behind the DCM Time Windows that replaced them.

I'm just messing around a bit, lol I had the whole line of LSi's a few years ago really liked them. Polk's customer service has always been outstanding from my experience using them. I may pick up a pair of RTi-7's in a few months at 600 a pair is a good price.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AVM60 is $3K.

So the Anthem AVM60 and Monolith HTP-1 are both $3K.

 

[ryanosaur]

So the Anthem AVM60 and Monolith HTP-1 are both $3K.

Well, $4K...
But it is not lost on me... Dirac, capable of managing up to 5 subs (2 more than I envision for myself), supports DV and is presumably UHD, and will hopefully be fully compatible with all hi-res audio...

Definitely on the radar. Can they produce and shake it all out in the next year?

 

[gene]

Gene, I got way to much time on my hands. lol, You on the other hand most probably ain't got enough hours in the day. I don't believe it gets said enough, what You and your staff at Audioholics do for us in here. A very Big Thank You Sir for all the work that's put in on here!! And yes He is a very Cool guy in my book!!

Mike

Thanks Mike. Wish I had more local help to get stuff done. I hate always being behind.

 

[slipperybidness]

It sounds to me the amp modules are being built in China too. They just get stuffed in a box in Tennessee. This is much different than what Dan Laufman originally said 2 years ago in our interviews. To me that's NOT manufacturing in the USA. JS.

Emo has a note on their site published in Feb that has this comment:

You will soon see “Assembled in the USA with Globally Sourced Components” on all products designed and assembled in Franklin, Tennessee.

I'm sure you are aware of the strict FTC rules for this type of marketing. And, what I see on that comment says that they are following the rules.

 

[PENG]

Not ruling anybody out: Anthem just seems to check a few more boxes than anybody else right now. (For my wants and needs.)
Would love to see Emotiva evolve into something a little more. Would love to see Monolith establish itself outside of the Monoprice moniker, too. Love my Outlaw products right now, but not interested in their processors. Intrigued by ATI, but again... they aren't hitting for me right now. Anthem in the closest to what I want at a price I might be willing to spend.

This is a crazy hobby that in many cases, defy logic! There are many people (me included) would go from avr to >$3K prepro and then back to <1K AVR yet many more would have to try the other direction.. I guess I know why, as I have done exactly that, but am still curious to know other's reasons to start such a move (and the specific model you are looking at), especially someone so well informed as you are..

My best guess is that you want to try Anthem ARC? You apparently tried Audyssey, and don't like the results, yet with the App you could change the target curve and save multiples of them to try, and if you are a follower of the recommendations to limit the range to below the room transition frequency that you are really only dealing with the effects for the 15 - 300 Hz range at the most. Regarding the target curves, we both know that does not mean the results will follow too closely, in fact most likely not, not for the whole range anyway, but no RC systems can. If it was sold as a standalone system, I would like to try it too regardless, but only because I enjoy playing with those things, not for better SQ at all.

The AVM60 is relatively cheap now for a boutique AV product, but it is almost 4 years old, and like the popular brands, it is still virtually an AVR with the power amps ripped out, add more balance connections, and that's it. It has the same mid range DAC that your SR6012 (iirc) has, and that's really disappointing. Overall I see no indications that it would offer sound quality advantage (not even theoretically, never mind audible) over the SR6012. To me, for 3K, there are much better choices, except if you really want to have AARC. Again, not trying to discourage anyone to go the prepro route, just wondering about the reasons for the move, and to the specific "upgrade path" choice.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is a crazy hobby that in many cases, defy logic! There are many people (me included) would go from avr to >$3K prepro and then back to <1K AVR yet many more would have to try the other direction.. I guess I know why...

I think everyone wants to experience that "high-end" feeling at least once.

I bought the $5,500 Denon AVR-5308CI and $7,500 Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

Would I do that again if I could go back in time? Hells no!

But it felt pretty good at the time.

Now I just got a $6,000 JVC NX5 4K Projector. That "high-end feeling" is something else.

These days, I still love owning separates, but I just don't see myself spending more than $2K on a pre-pro or an amp.

Why? Because I know in my heart that my Yamaha CX-A5100 sounds as good as anything out there regardless of price. And it still gives me that "high-end" feeling, which is also important to me.

Somehow it always seems to go back to that Separates vs AVR, doesn't it?

 

[PENG]

Why? Because I know in my heart that my Yamaha CX-A5100 sounds as good as anything out there regardless of price. And it still gives me that "high-end" feeling, which is also important to me.

Somehow it always seems to go back to that Separates vs AVR, doesn't it?

That's the thing, if Ryan won't be using RC in the end, the CX-A5100/5200 offers much more for less than the Anthem. Actually maybe YPAO is good enough too if the freq limit for correction is user selectable too, is it though?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's the thing, if Ryan won't be using RC in the end, the CX-A5100/5200 offers much more for less than the Anthem. Actually maybe YPAO is good enough too if the freq limit for correction is user selectable too, is it though?

I think you would have to apply YPAO first, then go back and use the manual Parametric EQ (15Hz-20kHz) to override the frequencies you don't want to mess with.

For example, go back and set all the treble frequencies to flat (bypass)

I think Gene did this. Used YPAO. Then used PEQ to adjust.

You could set all speakers' PEQ to flat (bypass) and let YPAO adjust only the Subwoofer's FR.

 

[PENG]

I think you would have to apply YPAO first, then go back and use the manual Parametric EQ (15Hz-20kHz) to override the frequencies you don't want to mess with.

For example, go back and set all the treble frequencies to flat (bypass)

I think Gene did this. Used YPAO. Then used PEQ to adjust.

You could also set all speakers' PEQ to flat (bypass) and use only the Subwoofer's PEQ.

That sounds like a viable workaround, you can't do that with D&M because as soon as you touch any manual EQ, Audyssey would be "off".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That sounds like a viable workaround, you can't do that with D&M because as soon as you touch any manual EQ, Audyssey would be "off".

I thought DM allows you to copy the Audyssey Curve to the manual EQ. Then you could manually override the frequencies you don't want to mess with like Yamaha.

I vaguely recall Denon AVP-A1HDCI asking me about this when I was playing around with the settings.

 

[lovinthehd]

I thought DM allows you to copy the Audyssey Curve to the manual EQ. Then you could manually override the frequencies you don't want to mess with like Yamaha.

I vaguely recall Denon AVP-A1HDCI asking me about this when I was playing around with the settings.

Copying over a vague eq profile with different kind of eq (manual is graphic eq on d&m stuff) may or may not do it....and that is a nice feature of the parametric eq to work with YPAO rather than have to turn it off...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Copying over a vague eq profile with different kind of eq (manual is graphic eq on d&m stuff) may or may not do it....and that is a nice feature of the parametric eq to work with YPAO rather than have to turn it off...

I never tried the Denon manual graphic EQ.

But I do love the Yamaha Parametric EQ (PEQ) - which allows me to only EQ the bass and not mess with anything else.

Maybe one reason Gene went from the Denon AVP-A1HDCI to the Yamaha CX-A5100 was because of Yamaha's Parametric EQ.

When Gene did the review of the CX-A5100, the PEQ only allowed EQ down to 31Hz unless you went into the web-interface. But with firmware updates, now PEQ allows EQ down to 15Hz.

 

[lovinthehd]

I never tried the Denon manual graphic EQ.

But I do love the Yamaha Parametric EQ (PEQ) - which allows me to only EQ the bass and not mess with anything else.

Maybe one reason Gene went from the Denon AVP-A1HDCI to the Yamaha CX-A5100 was because of Yamaha's Parametric EQ.

When Gene did the review of the CX-A5100, the PEQ only allowed EQ down to 31Hz unless you went into the web-interface. But with firmware updates, now PEQ allows EQ down to 15Hz.

Have no idea what Gene did but I have played with the graphic eq and copying a profile over....it's not as good as simply using Audyssey IMO.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Have no idea what Gene did but I have played with the graphic eq and copying a profile over....it's not as good as simply using Audyssey IMO.

So it doesn't seem to copy the exact EQ from Audyssey to manual EQ?

IOW, the sound is different from Audyssey vs the copy of the Audyssey to manual EQ?

I was assuming they could just copy exactly the Audyssey EQ to manual EQ and it would sound the same. But that's what I get for assuming.

For Yamaha, they seem to copy the exact YPAO EQ to Parametric EQ. Then you can adjust the PEQ.

 

[lovinthehd]

So it doesn't seem to copy the exact EQ from Audyssey to manual EQ?

IOW, the sound is different from Audyssey vs the copy of the Audyssey to manual EQ?

I was assuming they could just copy exactly the Audyssey EQ to manual EQ and it would sound the same. But that's what I get for assuming.

For Yamaha, they seem to copy the exact YPAO EQ to Parametric EQ. Then you can adjust the PEQ.

Audyssey is a more complex set of filters than the graphic eq....and those aren't copied over for use in the graphic equalizer. Here's a description of how Audyssey filters work:



Audyssey Labs July 15, 2010 13:53
There are two fundamental differences from every other method available in AV receivers today. The first is that MultEQ is not based on parametric equalization. Parametric equalization relies on a few bands that are centered at certain frequencies. These bands do not provide sufficient resolution to address many room acoustical problems. Also, parametric bands tend to interact so that changes at one frequency have undesirable results at nearby frequencies. Moreover, parametric equalization methods use a particular type of digital filter called Infinite Impulse Response (IIR) that only attempts to correct the magnitude response in the frequency domain. These filters can cause unwanted effects, such as ringing or smearing, in the time domain particularly as the bands get narrower. MultEQ uses Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters for equalization that use several hundred coefficients to achieve much higher resolution in the frequency domain than parametric bands. Furthermore, by their nature, FIR filters simultaneously provide correction in the frequency and time domains. FIR filters had been considered to require too many computational resources. But Audyssey solved this problem by using a special frequency scale that allocates more power to the lower frequencies where it is needed the most.

The second major difference is that MultEQ combines multiple measurements to create equalization filters that better represent the acoustical problems in the room. Most other methods only perform a single point measurement and this can result in making other locations in the room sound worse than before equalization. There are some methods that use spatial averaging to combine multiple room measurements. Although this is a step above single-point correction, it does not provide optimum correction when discussing spatial averaging. For example, it is common to find a peak at a certain frequency in one location and a dip at the same frequency at another nearby location. The averaging methods will add the peak and the dip and this will result in an apparent flat response at that frequency, thus causing the equalization filter to take no action. MultEQ uses a clustering method to combine measurements so that acoustical problems are better represented, thus allowing the equalization filter to perform the appropriate correction at each location.

 

[VonMagnum]

I think everyone wants to experience that "high-end" feeling at least once.

Ah that high end feeling....There's nothing quite as refreshing in the morning as feeling you got ripped off the night before! And that "new ripped" feeling just lasts and lasts and lasts!

By all means, we should all feel what it feels like to spend 2-4x as much as we should have for something that works just as well. So go buy that Mercedes or BMW that's insane to maintain and no more reliable than a Volkswagen (trust me, that's BAD) when you could have had a WRX! Ok, they're noisy, plasticky and tend to blow rings if you floor the turbos too often, but hey, you saved a trunk full of cash! I kept right up with the high-end BMW that thought he'd show me in my boring red Forester (XT) by flooring it on the on-ramp with his X-Drive right in front of me. I hope he enjoyed that "God, I spent WAY TOO MUCH for this car when a flipping 4-cylinder SUV was right on my tail!" LOL.

 

[mopa67000]

Ah that high end feeling....There's nothing quite as refreshing in the morning as feeling you got ripped off the night before! And that "new ripped" feeling just lasts and lasts and lasts!

By all means, we should all feel what it feels like to spend 2-4x as much as we should have for something that works just as well. So go buy that Mercedes or BMW that's insane to maintain and no more reliable than a Volkswagen (trust me, that's BAD) when you could have had a WRX! Ok, they're noisy, plasticky and tend to blow rings if you floor the turbos too often, but hey, you saved a trunk full of cash! I kept right up with the high-end BMW that thought he'd show me in my boring red Forester (XT) by flooring it on the on-ramp with his X-Drive right in front of me. I hope he enjoyed that "God, I spent WAY TOO MUCH for this car when a flipping 4-cylinder SUV was right on my tail!" LOL.

Dang, took a quick look and didn't see anything. Nor any chatter in the forum....was this posted to the forum and I just missed it, Gene?