Have you ever just "lost it"?

[shokhead]

It seems odd that you do everything god wants you to do but belive in him andyou are doomed. Something that bothers me. I just go about my business doing the best i can,making mistakes and learning from them.

 

[ironlung]

I can only speak for Catholocism, since thats what i was trained in. But every religion claims to be the right one, so maybe they're right and you're wrong? But the 'Big Three' (Christian, Jewish, Islam) all follow the same monotheistic God. And JudaoChristiLam is the most popular religion in China. Wicca isn't terribly popular I hear. India has the largest non-monotheistic populace BTW, not China.

Semantics my friend. I'm betting seince the beginning of modern man (i.e. homo sapiens) more have not accepted Jebus as their saviour than have.

Express ticket to H E double hockey sticks right?

Lets talk about ideas rather than stats.

 

[ironlung]

I just go about my business doing the best i can,making mistakes and learning from them.

I wish more people did the same. You know what the say about wishing though.

 

[MDS]

I think the bible used as a fictional peice of literature is valuable. It can teach how to treat the world in a generally good way. It should be no more special than any other fictional work for illuminating the human condition.

BTW great debate!!!

A person of faith believes that the bible is a history book that details god's teachings. It as if the bible is the written transcription of god's plan for mankind that was simply written down by monks.

But what if the bible is really just the first great novel? What if it is just a text of all the 'best practices' if you will that we should all live by to make the world a better place? Even if some of the chapters were based on actual historical events, is it not possible that some of the true meaning was lost in translation from one language to another and is it also not possible that some of the facts are just plain incorrect or embellished? To believe it is an exact account, with no factual errors and untainted by the opions of those who wrote it, is to believe that reporters never get their facts wrong or add their own opinions to an otherwise factual news report and we all know that that is not the case.

As for the history told by the bible, much of that is under debate by religious scholars. For example, the story of Noahs Ark has characteristics of other similar stories that were told generations BEFORE the bible.

 

[annunaki]

This is contrary to what I have read. I read that it was 'murder', but that people commonly state it as 'kill'. This seemingly minor error seemingly () annoys Jews.

Killing is a necessary action in order to survive. God gave us dominion over the beasts didn't He? We have to eat don't we? Murder is a different animal altogether.

Besides, venison tastes yummy!

Regards

By kill, it means/implies humans. All the commandments refer to the treatment other humans and God. That is why it is stated we have dominion over beasts. No where does it state dominion over other humans.

 

[shokhead]

Anybody ever been at a party where you have a bunch of people sit in a circle. The first person tells the next person a story in there ear and then that person does the same to the next and so on until it gets to the end and then they tell the story and its so changed. Pretty funny. Thats kinda how i feel the bible could be. Its so old and has been handed down so many times and rewritten. Just a thought.

 

[Buckle-meister]

By kill, it means/implies humans. All the commandments refer to the treatment other humans and God. That is why it is stated we have dominion over beasts. No where does it state dominion over other humans.

This is not what I meant at all, but the fault is entirely my own. Please read my final paragraph of post #81 for a better description of what I meant.

Regards

 

[annunaki]

How do you know I'm Christian?



Not at all.



Yeah, I knew my post didn't come across right. What I was meaning was that even with humans, there is a distinction between killing and murder. Example; I throw an American football to my friend. He runs, he catches and...Bam! runs straight into the End-zone goal-post, instantly breaks his neck and dies. Will I go to Hell for this inadvertant killing of another human? No.

However, if I walk up to my friend and shoot him dead on the spot, then because his killing was pre-meditated, i.e. murder, then I will indeed go to Hell.

This is why I am under the impression that the sixth Commandment says "Thou shalt not murder" rather than "Thou shalt not kill"; to differentiate between the two.

Regards

You did not kill your friend by throwing the football. It was his lack of "presence" on the field that allowed him to run into the goal post. According to some religious logic it was God's choice to take him home.

The same goes for accidents. Things happen sometimes and people are killed. According to that logic (you killing your friend by throwing the football), people who were killed by hurricanes committed suicide by living too close to the coast.

 

[annunaki]

Dukester said in a previous post

"Also, I would not agree that living a good life "just in case" is good choice. For one, living a good life will only get you a nice funeral where the people eulogize and maybe a good citizen award to put in your casket; not into Heaven. For twozies, if I believed this life was all you get, the heck with everthing and everyone else, I'm going to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die!"


I find this very interesting. My motivation for not killing or not behaving in general is not because god is going to send me to hell. It's because it's the right thing to do to make the world I live in a tolerable place to be.

I wear my seatbelt when I drive because I am concerned with my safety. Not beacuse the police are going to write me a ticket.

I don't treat people with respect and help my family, friends, and others when I can to get on gods good side. In fact I think that is about as hallow of a reason I can think of to do anything.

I help my family, friends, and others if I can because life is hard and a little cooperation can make the world better for the next generations. Not for a good citizen award in my casket.

That's the way its done in nature. The bears take care of and protect their baby's. They sort out their territory with little violence that's never fatal. Because instinct wants more bears in the future. Why are humans so special?

Dukesters joke about Santa is funny. But why don't you address the point I was trying to make?

I'll ask the question again. If you believe in god, do you also believe in Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth fairy? Why not?!?!?!?!?

If a lie is 2000+ years old and billions have believed in it, does it make any more true?

As far as the Jericoh(sp) reference I think its especially dangerous to treat the bible as a history book. Do you think that really happened?

I think the bible used as a fictional peice of literature is valuable. It can teach how to treat the world in a generally good way. It should be no more special than any other fictional work for illuminating the human condition.

How bout the religion of the Tourtise and the Hare?

BTW great debate!!!

Actually,

Quite a bit of the bible (old testament) has proven to be true. I.E. locations of cities, people that actually exsisted, ect. They have been correlated by other works from the periods in question. As far as some of the events go?

 

[Buckle-meister]

You did not kill your friend by throwing the football.

Actually, I didn't kill my friend at all. But thanks for the moral support.

It was his lack of "presence" on the field that allowed him to run into the goal post.

I know! What a plonker! Should've been a line-backer.

Quite a bit of the bible (old testament) has proven to be true. I.E. locations of cities, people that actually existed, etc. They have been correlated by other works from the periods in question. As far as some of the events go?

If some of it's right, why not all of it?

Regards

 

[annunaki]

If some of it's right, why not all of it?

Regards

Well, I am not saying that it didn't. However, much of the old testament is correlated in Sumerian texts. I feel that the events in the bible are a condensed version of an even older collection of events. The original Hebrew bible was taken from Akkadian and Babylonian sources, which in turn were taken from Sumerian. The bible refrences Sumer as Shumer, as well as some cities, Ur and Kish being some.

 

[Buckle-meister]

My motivation for not killing or not behaving in general is not because god is going to send me to hell. It's because it's the right thing to do to make the world I live in a tolerable place to be.

I wear my seatbelt when I drive because I am concerned with my safety. Not beacuse the police are going to write me a ticket.

I don't treat people with respect and help my family, friends, and others when I can to get on gods good side. In fact I think that is about as hallow of a reason I can think of to do anything. I help my family, friends, and others if I can because life is hard and a little cooperation can make the world better for the next generations. Not for a good citizen award in my casket.

Ironlung, are you sure you're not a closet Christian?!

If a lie is 2000+ years old and billions have believed in it, does [that] make [it] any more true?

No it does not. A lie is a lie and is independant of time. But then, so is truth.

You know what they say about wishing...

Yes, it's good for the soul.

But what is the soul? Maybe it is having a soul that differentiates humans from the rest of the species. If true, one has to ask; where did the soul come from? Hmm, I wonder...

...what if the bible is really just the first great novel? What if it is just a text of all the 'best practices' if you will that we should all live by to make the world a better place?

So the Bible is a parable of parables?

Regards

 

[ironlung]

Wish a little wish!!!!

I'm sure you guys have heard the old saying.....

You can wish in one hand and poop in the other and see witch one fills up first. (cleaned for the family forum)

 

[ironlung]

Actually,

Quite a bit of the bible (old testament) has proven to be true. I.E. locations of cities, people that actually exsisted, ect. They have been correlated by other works from the periods in question. As far as some of the events go?

The awful movie Taxi with queen Latifa(SP) and Jimmy Fallon takes place in New York in 2004-2005 or so. It is still fiction.

Did the horns really bring the walls of Jericho down?

I guess I'm trying to be devils advocate as it were.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

1. I stand by the "purgatory for heathens" statement.

2. Leaving the old testament on the Bible is the cause of 99.9% of anyones problems with Christianity. If you ignore it, as it applies to Judaism, you'll find the Bible becomes a much simpler philosophy.

3. Jesus never once mentions homosexuality. Shut the hell up about it already. (This is for the 'Jesus Hates Homosexuals' sign waving crowd). :f

4. If you follow the Bible, I also suggest you read/study the "Gnostic Gospels", a series of gospels written by very early Christians and squirreled away, recently rediscovered in the 1940's. Whether they are the true word of God and covered-up by the Chruch, or the rantings of crazies, or genius forgeries, I'll have to leave upto you.

5. Yes, Chrsitianity, along with every other religion practiced today DOES take many myths and practicies from earlier pagan religions/rituals. Anybody who argues with this is argueing against first-hand recorded history, and may as well wear a paper sack on his/her head all the time.

6. The DaVinci Code is fiction.

7. And finally (for today) if you are of the sect that believes the Bible is the de facto, unwavering, incorruptable word of God, you should be made aware that it has been rewritten and (mis)translated hundreds of times over the last two millenia. Jesus & pals didn't speak english, and most every Bible in the bookstore is very different from a 16th century Guttenberg Bible. You could try learning ancient Greek & Latin, tracking down original manuscripts and decyphering it yourself, only to find any survivng originals are long gone, and some early ones actually contradict "official" modern interpretations (a good example are the Gospels according to Timothy, included among the Gnostic Gospels which teaches against paying or tithing for religion).

 

[Buckle-meister]

...it is stated we have dominion over beasts. No where does it state dominion over other humans.

What? Not even moderators?!

Regards

 

[majorloser]

stated we have dominion over beasts.

DAMN IT!
You almost had this heathen reading again.
I thought you said BREASTS.

 

[shokhead]

DAMN IT!
You almost had this heathen reading again.
I thought you said BREASTS.

Breasts always reminds me of a saying. Two bebe's on a breadboard would look like mountains to her.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

And how many devils can dance on the head of a matchstick!?

 

[shokhead]

Dukester,

What exactly is "Heaven?" Is it actually a "land" (a geographical location if you will)? Will only our souls go to Heaven? What about our brain? Can a soul think without a brain?

What is a "soul?" Can a soul reason?

Will we see our family and friends in Heaven? Will we see them as we last remembered them, or will they age? IE, a child we may have lost at birth. If that child is unbaptized, will we be able to see them if we're in Heaven and they're in Purgatory? How can one that young repent to make her way to Heaven? Does God forgive unbaptized babies?

I sometimes find a lot of Christians very well versed in the Bible seem to know quite a bit - but only from the Bible. I'm anxious to see the answers to the above questions (if there are truely answers).

I'm not doubting anyones faith. I just want to know others opinions here.

What about X girlfriends and wifes? Could make heven a hotter then hell place.