Harley's vs. Japanese bikes & Bose systems.

[flyv65]

I haven't got the time right now to rebut the entire post, so I'll just go with the most glaring error among them:

Knowing how to lay down a bike is a nessacary skill that every rider should know how to do & yes my children wear helmets,full body leather,breast plates,boots,shin & wrist guards & all other appropriate saftey gear,knowing how to ride hard on dirt also means knowing how to take a fall.

There is no reason EVER to lay a bike down on the road, including the old chestnut "I put the bike down and let it slide into the car in front of me first; my sliding on the road will slow me down enough to come out of this unhurt". Let's start with physics: which substance do you suppose has the highest co-efficient of friction; chrome and paint (or plastic), or rubber? Now if you're confronted with an emergency stop situation, do you think the bike will stop quicker using both front and rear brakes applied to their utmost, or will the bike stop sooner sliding along on its crash guard and exhaust? Do you wear leathers or some sort of protective clothing? good: now do you think leather has a higher or lower C.of F. than rubber? Bearing in mind that many knee sliders are made of leather, you probably guessed the correct answer.

As soon as you put the bike down, you've surrendered control of the bike to momentum; any hope of stopping, turning, or accelerating in a different direction are gone and you're just along for the ride (or you're tumbling along the street like a rag doll behind the bike, because you forgot to lay as flat as possible when you came off). Now you may be comfortable letting luck decide what happens to you, and that's fine: I guess I've just got reason to trust my riding skills more than you trust yours.

Bryan...take a class before you die, or buy more life insurance...

 

[JAD2]

flyv65


You ever heard the term stereotype??

Stereotypical usage of Jap stuff until the late 80's was, buy, use, throw away.
While you can call it generalization, which it really boils down to being, thats the truth and has been wildy accepted by the majority of US citizens for years. I was taught this through everyone I ever met and was reinforced even in advertising at one point. If you want to BELIEVE I made it up, so be it, but its not something I pulled out to debate this topic.
There are sides drawn here like in a Bose style thread and others, I merely as a way of posting,draw the middle line based on stereotypical ideals that are shared outside in the real world.

Harley's arent advertised anything near a Bose level and again I say its rare. Maybe where you live it maybe, but not here, I'll give that much!! Harley could stop all advertising all together and would still sell just by the Name it always has carried and always has.Bose, could you say that??

Construction zones, traffic tie ups , OH COME you got to be kidding me, you must really live in the woods!!! Motorcycles at a very large margin, leave the lane and pass everyone whether its between cars or on the shoulder to the furthest point they can make it. My truck could easily go onto the shoulder and do the same thing, maybe not as far, but typically the same thing.That is against the law, its against every curiosity for road usage when other are sitting inline, waiting their turn, likes suppose to be done. People do that in other vehicles also which gets the same response from me the bikes get, GOOD LUCK DUDE, YOUR LANES GONNA BE BLOCKED BY ME, hope your brakes work. I dont want to sit here either, but I will and so will you!!

I'm neutral on both and Audiophile and Biker, playing referee and making the sides even.
And I also know how forums go when ones backed up against the wall and cries out PROOF IT. I list sources and links, you still then refute it for god knows how many different reason!!!! Thats the forums!!

 

[JAD2]

I haven't got the time right now to rebut the entire post, so I'll just go with the most glaring error among them:



There is no reason EVER to lay a bike down on the road, including the old chestnut "I put the bike down and let it slide into the car in front of me first; my sliding on the road will slow me down enough to come out of this unhurt". Let's start with physics: which substance do you suppose has the highest co-efficient of friction; chrome and paint (or plastic), or rubber? Now if you're confronted with an emergency stop situation, do you think the bike will stop quicker using both front and rear brakes applied to their utmost, or will the bike stop sooner sliding along on its crash guard and exhaust? Do you wear leathers or some sort of protective clothing? good: now do you think leather has a higher or lower C.of F. than rubber? Bearing in mind that many knee sliders are made of leather, you probably guessed the correct answer.

As soon as you put the bike down, you've surrendered control of the bike to momentum; any hope of stopping, turning, or accelerating in a different direction are gone and you're just along for the ride (or you're tumbling along the street like a rag doll behind the bike, because you forgot to lay as flat as possible when you came off). Now you may be comfortable letting luck decide what happens to you, and that's fine: I guess I've just got reason to trust my riding skills more than you trust yours.

Bryan...take a class before you die, or buy more life insurance...

What and ***!!!

Your going 65 on your bike and someone pulls out in front of you, very close. If you think your better off hitting the brakes all full well knowing you ARE GONNA HIT that brick wall object, head first, then lay it down to take better chances of survival by hoping the room underneath the vehicle, that gives you better odds, your nuts!!!!!! End of Story!!!

 

[caupina]

Knowing how to ride well means being in control all the time, planning ahead, and always have an alternative plan. I've been riding for quite some time and something I always do is practice emergency stops. If I ride at 90 all the time, I better become used to braking at 90 and find out how my bike handles and it does pretty good, you wouldn't believe how much braking power you have at your hands.

 

[mulester7]

My sons are being taught how to ride hard on dirt & the falls they take prepare them much more than any street riders course ever could,both my sons know how to lay their bikes down in an emergency & can demonstrate it,show me one person who learned to ride by taking a course that knows how to get off their machine at 40mph.

I suspect that might be the point at which we diverge on training: we don't teach people how to fall off their bikes at 40 mph-we teach them how to stay on them. Anyone who says they had to "lay their bike down" so they wouldn't crash into another vehicle/lightpole/fence/whatever has just proven they don't really know how to ride, and should stop getting their technique from the Terminator movies. i urge both you and your son(s) to take a class and learn how to ride properly

.....well, I'm a little torn on this one....a good measure of dirt riding gives a kid instant reactions to braking, gearing down, and is probably more demanding to being in the right gear than street riding for being "up on the pipe"....another good thing about dirt riding for training as opposed to the street is, everyone is generally going the same direction....when a 40 year-old with NO bike experience whatsoever decides to take up street riding and a situation arises that demands stopping absolutely asap, he could very well freak out and have to try to think where the brakes are, you know what I mean....the right foot "instantly" stomping on the back brake WILL be crutial at some point as we all know....I've seen people in cars freak out the same way from my seat in the head locomotive of trains....this happens generally at crossings way out in the country that have no crossing arms or lights, only white poles and signs, you've seen them....they usually have the windows up and can't hear the horn and start across the tracks....something makes them look down the tracks once they're on the tracks, and they see our train approaching close....almost every time they will stomp on the brakes in shock and sit right on the tracks with eyes as big as dinner plates....a very high percentage of the time they have enough time to compose themselves enough to find the gas pedal, but every now and then one doesn't....I watched a woman one day in broad daylight who freaked right in front of us and stopped across the tracks compose herself enough to find the gas pedal and floor it....right into the rear of another car sitting at a stop sign to a US highway paralleling the tracks....we saw some humor in the happening later, but at the time we were just glad she got off the tracks and were quite somber....the public just doesn't realize how heavy a freight train is....just the head locomotive alone weighs over 200 TONS....and, fines for going around downed crossing arms, or even going through flashing lights with no arms, start at $400 in Arkansas....anyhow, back to motorcycles.....

.....I learned a long time ago to let my riding be governed by two simple rules....one....go ahead and assume ANY vehicle you see ahead, be it a Greyhound bus, a dump truck, a car, another motorcycle, someone on a bicycle, or even a kid pulling a little red wagon, is going to do the STUPIDEST thing possible, and you've got to be traveling at a rate of speed to be able to get your motorcycle STOPPED, before you hit them, or they hit you....two....when in Rome, do as the Romans....this applies mainly to freeways and interstates....if you can't muster enough intestinal fortitude to get on a freeway at about the same speed as the trucks and cars already on and moving at 60-75, stay away from freeways and interstates....this can get you killed quicker than anything....I used to ride with a guy who for some reason would try to get on a freeway doing no more than about 40....then he would speed up and be ok, but I kept telling him his days were probably numbered....one day here in NLR, he pulled his usual practice getting on I-40 at rush-hour, and almost got smacked in the rear by an 18-wheeler that SLID up to him....he pulled off immediately on the shoulder and proceeded to begin removing bricks from his bluejeans, and from that day forward was a changed man....motorcycles are wonderful, just use your head....it does you no good to be in a hospital in traction wrapped in white to be able to say, "BUT I HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY!!".....

 

[JAD2]

Knowing how to ride well means being in control all the time, planning ahead, and always have an alternative plan. I've been riding for quite some time and something I always do is practice emergency stops. If I ride at 90 all the time, I better become used to braking at 90 and find out how my bike handles and it does pretty good, you wouldn't believe how much braking power you have at your hands.

No doubt, BUT, isnt learning how to lay it down something controlled??

There are gonna be times just like I mentioned that could arise and laying down the bike is really the only thing left, its just too close for any braking to do anything reasonable as far as slowing. I think the odds are better if your laying on your side, seperating yourself from the bike, bracing for impact than taking the risk of going head first. Your gonna fly forward and its gonna be head first and it wont be pretty. Someone had mentioned that I try falling down, no bracing see see what kind of head injury I get. Well I'd rather have my head away from the brunt of the impact and risk losing my legs!!

 

[flyv65]

flyv65


You ever heard the term stereotype??

As a matter of fact, I have. For those who haven't, however:

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/stereotype

you'll notice that nowhere in the definition does it say that stereotypes are factual; in fact (pun intended), you'll most often see stereotypes used in reference to racism and bigotry because they unjustly assign an entire group of people into one usually inaccurate image.

Stereotypical usage of Jap stuff until the late 80's was, buy, use, throw away.

Once again, that's what the marketing wanted you to do-it doesn't mean thst's what was done.

While you can call it generalization, which it really boils down to being, thats the truth and has been wildy accepted by the majority of US citizens for years. I was taught this through everyone I ever met and was reinforced even in advertising at one point.

You're only reinforcing my point when you say this is what you were taught by your friends, family, and advertising: it's a stereotype, and in some cases it has some truth, but seldom represents a majority of the group. If this were true, then everyone who owned a Harley would be a meth-cooking petty criminal working his way up to a murder charge in between beer runs and beating up other bikers. Sounds kinda stupid, huh?

If you want to BELIEVE I made it up, so be it, but its not something I pulled out to debate this topic.
There are sides drawn here like in a Bose style thread and others, I merely as a way of posting,draw the middle line based on stereotypical ideals that are shared outside in the real world.

I don't believe you made it up, I just don't believe your statement is true, and you can't seem to provide a preponderance of evidence to support your claim. you really shouldn't rely on stereotypes to back up your arguements-they have a nasty habit of being wrong more often than not.

Harley's arent advertised anything near a Bose level and again I say its rare. Maybe where you live it maybe, but not here, I'll give that much!! Harley could stop all advertising all together and would still sell just by the Name it always has carried and always has.Bose, could you say that??

Now here you've jumped from "marketing" to "advertising", two different but related things. HD's advertising might actually not be much more than Bose's when you factor in billboards, print and cable ads...but their marketing is legion. Every time you see a kid wearing a HD t-shirt or a shield and bar leather jacket (when they don't own a bike), or HD Shotglasses, coasters, playing cards, etc., you're seeing Harley's marketing department at their wiliest. They are some branding mofos, alright. Have you ever seen a kid with a "Bose" tattoo? Me either, but you'll see HD tattoos, and it's not the product but the marketing that drove them.

Construction zones, traffic tie ups , OH COME you got to be kidding me, you must really live in the woods!!!

Just outside Denver, but it *is* referred to as a Cow Town.

Motorcycles at a very large margin, leave the lane and pass everyone whether its between cars or on the shoulder to the furthest point they can make it. My truck could easily go onto the shoulder and do the same thing, maybe not as far, but typically the same thing.That is against the law, its against every curiosity for road usage when other are sitting inline, waiting their turn, likes suppose to be done. People do that in other vehicles also which gets the same response from me the bikes get, GOOD LUCK DUDE, YOUR LANES GONNA BE BLOCKED BY ME, hope your brakes work. I dont want to sit here either, but I will and so will you!!

So what, you're some kind of Construction Zone vigilante who runs people of the road into the weeds if he sees them doing something illegal? TWell that's illegal out here: they call it "road rage" and it pulls down a minimum 6 point ticket, IIRC. By the way, if you cut off a bike splitting lanes in CA you're getting the ticket, because lane splitting is legal there. I'm not positive, but I believe there is a statute in Texas that allows a trooper to permit lane splitting at his or her discretion, so it might be legal there, too.

I'm neutral on both and Audiophile and Biker, playing referee and making the sides even.
And I also know how forums go when ones backed up against the wall and cries out PROOF IT. I list sources and links, you still then refute it for god knows how many different reason!!!! Thats the forums!!

So list the sources and links: I'm still waiting.

Bryan

 

[flyv65]

What and ***!!!

Your going 65 on your bike and someone pulls out in front of you, very close.
If you think your better off hitting the brakes all full well knowing you ARE GONNA HIT that brick wall object, head first, then lay it down to take better chances of survival by hoping the room underneath the vehicle, that gives you better odds, your nuts!!!!!! End of Story!!!

I don't think you really understand what friction is, JAD2, but suffice it to say that if you're 50 feet away from a stationary object and you're going to hit it, do you want to hit at 15 mph after slowing in a controlled fashion using both brakes, or do you want to slide into it at 30 after laying the bike down? Me, I'd take the 15 mph, myself, but I'm not a big fan of pain and un-necessary surgery.

And about the 65 mph when somebody pulls out right in front of you? If you have the time to decide "I better lay it down", then you've got the time to apply your brakes. One more time, people: a motorcycle will slow much faster if it remains on its tires rather than its side. End of story. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Bryan...if bikes stop faster on their sides, then why aren't car tires made from steel? Lord knows they'd last longer...

 

[flyv65]

.....well, I'm a little torn on this one....a good measure of dirt riding gives a kid instant reactions to braking, gearing down, and is probably more demanding to being in the right gear than street riding for being "up on the pipe".

Dirt riding is wonderful training for riding on the street: the rider already understands the concepts of how to use the clutch, brakes, and throttle, although often the the throttle control needs to be polished abit, and the rider fequently uses too much back brake and locks it up. I'll also point out that being "on the pipe" on the street has been illegal since the late '70's, and is starting to go away in the dirt as well; 4-strokers, ya know, Mulie

...another good thing about dirt riding for training as opposed to the street is, everyone is generally going the same direction....when a 40 year-old with NO bike experience whatsoever decides to take up street riding and a situation arises that demands stopping absolutely asap, he could very well freak out and have to try to think where the brakes are, you know what I mean....the right foot "instantly" stomping on the back brake WILL be crutial at some point as we all know

Well, the right foot stomping on that back brake will no doubt lock it up when he needs it's stopping power the most, meaning the rider's stopping distance has just increased. Hopefully the rider will keep the back locked untill he/she stops, 'cuz if they release the back brake and the tire starts spinning again the rider could be "spit off" the bike in a high side. I'd rather see them lay it down than high side...

SNIP

.....I learned a long time ago to let my riding be governed by two simple rules....one....go ahead and assume ANY vehicle you see ahead, be it a Greyhound bus, a dump truck, a car, another motorcycle, someone on a bicycle, or even a kid pulling a little red wagon, is going to do the STUPIDEST thing possible, and you've got to be traveling at a rate of speed to be able to get your motorcycle STOPPED, before you hit them, or they hit you....

Sound advice Mulester; that's often called the "Vanishing Point" riding technique, and it's quite common amongst experienced riders.

two....when in Rome, do as the Romans....this applies mainly to freeways and interstates....if you can't muster enough intestinal fortitude to get on a freeway at about the same speed as the trucks and cars already on and moving at 60-75, stay away from freeways and interstates....this can get you killed quicker than anything....I used to ride with a guy who for some reason would try to get on a freeway doing no more than about 40....then he would speed up and be ok, but I kept telling him his days were probably numbered....one day here in NLR, he pulled his usual practice getting on I-40 at rush-hour, and almost got smacked in the rear by an 18-wheeler that SLID up to him....he pulled off immediately on the shoulder and proceeded to begin removing bricks from his bluejeans, and from that day forward was a changed man....motorcycles are wonderful, just use your head....it does you no good to be in a hospital in traction wrapped in white to be able to say, "BUT I HAD THE RIGHT-OF-WAY!!".....

More good advice. Maybe I'll just bow out of this thread and let Mulester field the phones .

Bryan...ther's hope for some, anyways...

 

[caupina]

No doubt, BUT, isnt learning how to lay it down something controlled??

There are gonna be times just like I mentioned that could arise and laying down the bike is really the only thing left, its just too close for any braking to do anything reasonable as far as slowing. I think the odds are better if your laying on your side, seperating yourself from the bike, bracing for impact than taking the risk of going head first. Your gonna fly forward and its gonna be head first and it wont be pretty. Someone had mentioned that I try falling down, no bracing see see what kind of head injury I get. Well I'd rather have my head away from the brunt of the impact and risk losing my legs!!

Just like flyv65 said: if you have time to decide to lay down the bike, means you have time to apply the brakes, i'll always do the latter that the former . Flyv65 is right, you won't slown down any quicker unless you keep it on two wheels

 

[Sheep]

As for leading by example im a firm believer in it,i ride safely & so do they,helmets should be a thing of choice much like seatbelts & not forced on people by polititicians who answer to the insurance industry or by do gooders who feel the need to force their own values on others.So you know my stance on helmets, every riding situation is different with some requiring helmets & others not,depending on traffic,road conditions, speed & rider ability.

Much like seatblets? Seatbelts are (fortunately) NOT a choice. Tests have proven that they reduce the risk of death. The only reason NOT to ware a seatbelt is because you want to commit suicide. If you are in an accident(crash) and are not wearing a seatbelt, good luck getting any payments.

While every riding situation may be different, they have 1 thing in common: They can all turn deadly. And most of the time, it is out of your control whether or not they do. Might as well be prepared.

SheepStar

 

[JAD2]

I don't think you really understand what friction is, JAD2, but suffice it to say that if you're 50 feet away from a stationary object and you're going to hit it, do you want to hit at 15 mph after slowing in a controlled fashion using both brakes, or do you want to slide into it at 30 after laying the bike down? Me, I'd take the 15 mph, myself, but I'm not a big fan of pain and un-necessary surgery.

And about the 65 mph when somebody pulls out right in front of you? If you have the time to decide "I better lay it down", then you've got the time to apply your brakes. One more time, people: a motorcycle will slow much faster if it remains on its tires rather than its side. End of story. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Bryan...if bikes stop faster on their sides, then why aren't car tires made from steel? Lord knows they'd last longer...

I make sure I tell this to 2 people I know very well.
One whom did lay his bike down and survives today because of that with some limitations and another when I get the chance whom isnt here anymore and road it out!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JAD2
Stereotypical usage of Jap stuff until the late 80's was, buy, use, throw away.

Once again, that's what the marketing wanted you to do-it doesn't mean thst's what was done.


OK, then were is it if your side can be deemed true????

 

[flyv65]

I make sure I tell this to 2 people I know very well.
One whom did lay his bike down and survives today because of that with some limitations and another when I get the chance whom isnt here anymore and road it out!!!

I'm sorry for your loss, but with what you've told us I don't see anything that would prove your point of laying down the bike being the correct choice. Just because one of your buddy's lived doing the wrong thing doesn't make it right-just very lucky. If he hadn't laid it down he might not be impaired at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAD2
Stereotypical usage of Jap stuff until the late 80's was, buy, use, throw away.

Once again, that's what the marketing wanted you to do-it doesn't mean thst's what was done.


OK, then were is it if your side can be deemed true????

I'm not sure what you're trying to say with this: could you rephrase it, perhaps?

Bryan

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

I grew up in a family that relied heavily on motorcycles for transportation & recreation & my family is the same,we all ride dirt very hard & wear the proper protection for whatever riding situation were in,my sons are being taught how to ride hard on dirt & the falls they take prepare them much more than any street riders course ever could,both my sons know how to lay their bikes down in an emergency & can demonstrate it,show me one person who learned to ride by taking a course that knows how to get off their machine at 40mph.

There is no reason EVER to lay a bike down on the road, including the old chestnut "I put the bike down and let it slide into the car in front of me first; my sliding on the road will slow me down enough to come out of this unhurt". Let's start with physics: which substance do you suppose has the highest co-efficient of friction; chrome and paint (or plastic), or rubber? Now if you're confronted with an emergency stop situation, do you think the bike will stop quicker using both front and rear brakes applied to their utmost, or will the bike stop sooner sliding along on its crash guard and exhaust? Do you wear leathers or some sort of protective clothing? good: now do you think leather has a higher or lower C.of F. than rubber? Bearing in mind that many knee sliders are made of leather, you probably guessed the correct answer.

Normally I try to stay out of Helmet debates and "Laying it down" discussions with people who actually have been in bike accidents and know 1st hand what they're talking about. It makes as much sense as telling somebody their religion is wrong. After all if you did 'X' and survived, who is somebody else to tell you you should have done 'Z'? (I've ridden many bikes, been in serious accidents and "know" what my opinion of helmets & "laying it down" are.)

But these two radically different schools of thought can have a basis for a thourough Audiolics testing......
The Double-Blind Motorcycle Crash test
*We'll put Highfihoney and Flyv65 on 2 similar bikes (lets try Royal Enfield Bullets, since they are neither American nor Japanese we can say they have the least amount of bias).
*They will wear the exact same safety gear for this test
*The bikes will be ridden upto 55mph
*2 Ford explorers (the official SUV of the negligent driver) will stop driectly in the path of the bikes (1 for each bike of course).
*Highfihoney will lay his bullet down and Flyv65 will keep the rubber side down.

Then we can simply compare total injuries and have a very good starting point for any future discussions on "proper" motorcycle accident survival.

PS: In NY state, if you "lay it down" before you come into contact with the offending car (or truck, house, fence, whatever you were gonna hit), you have legally caused the accident to yourself and what you or your bike strikes becomes the secondary party in the accident scene. (My lawyer explained this to me).

In other words: If blue hair & Q-tips turns left in front of you and you "lay it down", The accident is legally your fault even if the bike, or you, ends up under the offending car. No class action lawsuit, no medical bills paid, do not pass go, do not collect $200. They could even sue you for damaging their property! (and they probably will... people suck like that).

So please, keep the rubber side down in NY. That way you can take legal action if you survive.

 

[flyv65]

SNIP
But these two radically different schools of thought can have a basis for a thourough Audiolics testing......
The Double-Blind Motorcycle Crash test
*We'll put Highfihoney and Flyv65 on 2 similar bikes (lets try Royal Enfield Bullets, since they are neither American nor Japanese we can say they have the least amount of bias).
*They will wear the exact same safety gear for this test
*The bikes will be ridden upto 55mph
*2 Ford explorers (the official SUV of the negligent driver) will stop driectly in the path of the bikes (1 for each bike of course).
*Highfihoney will lay his bullet down and Flyv65 will keep the rubber side down.

I'm not sure the Bullet will *do* 55 mph, and they're kind pricey: but if it's in the name of science, who am I to argue?

Bryan...I suppose the Hyosung bikes are pretty affordable...

 

[Nick250]

Helmets is a debate like Bose is to speakers.

Bose does have its use all though most here say they dont.
They do produce sound
But they sound like ****

Helmets protect from head injuries
Not against a brick wall at 100 will it save death.

Subjective!!!!

Subjective??????????? Are your serious??????? The statistics for head injuries and fatalities on helmeted verses non helmeted riders is not subjective.

Nick

 

[mulester7]

Helmets is a debate like Bose is to speakers

The statistics for head injuries and fatalities on helmeted verses non-helmeted is not subjective.

Nick

.....well, Nick, that would depend on how loud you get the Bose system without a helmet.....

 

[highfihoney]

I haven't got the time right now to rebut the entire post, so I'll just go with the most glaring error among them:



There is no reason EVER to lay a bike down on the road, including the old chestnut "I put the bike down and let it slide into the car in front of me first; my sliding on the road will slow me down enough to come out of this unhurt". Let's start with physics: which substance do you suppose has the highest co-efficient of friction; chrome and paint (or plastic), or rubber? Now if you're confronted with an emergency stop situation, do you think the bike will stop quicker using both front and rear brakes applied to their utmost, or will the bike stop sooner sliding along on its crash guard and exhaust? Do you wear leathers or some sort of protective clothing? good: now do you think leather has a higher or lower C.of F. than rubber? Bearing in mind that many knee sliders are made of leather, you probably guessed the correct answer.

As soon as you put the bike down, you've surrendered control of the bike to momentum; any hope of stopping, turning, or accelerating in a different direction are gone and you're just along for the ride (or you're tumbling along the street like a rag doll behind the bike, because you forgot to lay as flat as possible when you came off). Now you may be comfortable letting luck decide what happens to you, and that's fine: I guess I've just got reason to trust my riding skills more than you trust yours.

Bryan...take a class before you die, or buy more life insurance...

Much like your other posts ending in a silly comment this one is total nonense.

The whole idea of laying your bike down is to surrender control of the bike when all hope of breaking is lost,i'd much rather lay it down rather than taking a 60 mph flying lesson over the hood of a mustang.

If you wish to debate this then leave your stupid & self serving comments at the door & dont hand me that horse crap that you meant no offense because anybody with a brain can read & i took your comments just as you intended them to be taken.

 

[flyv65]

Much like your other posts ending in a silly comment this one is total nonense.

The whole idea of laying your bike down is to surrender control of the bike when all hope of breaking is lost,i'd much rather lay it down rather than taking a 60 mph flying lesson over the hood of a mustang.

You've once again missed the point: You can always brake right up to the moment of impact. Every mph you scrub off is one less than you have to suffer through. If you're seriously contemplating a 60 mph flying lesson by braking, then you're looking at at least a 70 mph uncontrolled slide into the same mustang-only now you've got worry about not impaling yourself on the handlebars, footpegs, etc. of your own bike.

I understand what you're trying to say, it's just mis-informed and in terms of riding safety, incorrect. But that's your personal preference, right?

If you wish to debate this then leave your stupid & self serving comments at the door & dont hand me that horse crap that you meant no offense because anybody with a brain can read & i took your comments just as you intended them to be taken.

At this point I don't care if you take offence or not-this isn't a debate. The NHSTA, MSF, ABATE, Keith Code, Reg Pridmore, Freddie Spencer, Nick Ianatch, Lee Parks, et. al. have all stated that the incorrect response to an emergency braking situation on the street is to lay it down. If, however, you feel that you know better than the laws of physics and the cumulative experience of all these people who've made their livings riding and studying motorcycles than by all means, carry on. The level of hubris and riding ignorance you're displaying is typically self correcting in this hobby.

Bryan...The sad thing is you seem to have passed it on to your kids...

 

[highfihoney]

You've once again missed the point: You can always brake right up to the moment of impact. Every mph you scrub off is one less than you have to suffer through. If you're seriously contemplating a 60 mph flying lesson by braking, then you're looking at at least a 70 mph uncontrolled slide into the same mustang-only now you've got worry about not impaling yourself on the handlebars, footpegs, etc. of your own bike.

I understand what you're trying to say, it's just mis-informed and in terms of riding safety, incorrect. But that's your personal preference, right?




At this point I don't care if you take offence or not-this isn't a debate. The NHSTA, MSF, ABATE, Keith Code, Reg Pridmore, Freddie Spencer, Nick Ianatch, Lee Parks, et. al. have all stated that the incorrect response to an emergency braking situation on the street is to lay it down. If, however, you feel that you know better than the laws of physics and the cumulative experience of all these people who've made their livings riding and studying motorcycles than by all means, carry on. The level of hubris and riding ignorance you're displaying is typically self correcting in this hobby.

Bryan...The sad thing is you seem to have passed it on to your kids...

YUP, im quite positive that you dont care,right from the start of this thread you've thrown in little digs to all who oppose your line of thought,your a doo gooder who wants everybody else to conform to your thinking & since you teach a riders saftey course (big deal) your now the expert who is droping names & quoting studies that dont mean squat in real life,just because a guy makes his living doing something does not mean its a worthy cause & in your case teaching 40 year old newbiees how to ride just because the state made it mandatory for such classes has gone to your head.

i dont like you or people like you who dance around & mince words or hide behind smily faces instead of comming right out & saying what they mean,the internet has done wonders for the arrogance of people like you.

You want to tell me about any of your real life riding experiences where you had to make a choice?

Leave my children out of your snide remarks.