Harley's vs. Japanese bikes & Bose systems.

[flyv65]

Rider saftey should be taught from a very young age & not some stupid riders saftey course,i wouldnt give a hill of beans for the knowladge gained from a riders saftey course.

If you're convinced that you won't get anything from a rider's ed class, you probably won't. On the other hand, if you're willing to keep an open mind to what's being said and demonstrated, I bet you'll learn at least one new thing, or be reminded of something you've forgotten and stopped doing. Typical with cruiser riders is the (mistaken) belief that the front brake is either useless or dangerous. In the last ERC class I taught there were two experienced HD riders that had very good bike-handling skills, but were convinced that "if you use the front brake it'll flip you over the handlebars!" One of these guys refused to believe otherwise, untill he saw his buddy out-braking him during practice by using the front brake.

By the way, since children look to their parents as their first role-models, are you comfortable letting your son see you on a bike without a helmet?

Bryan...or do you subscribe to the "do as I say, not as I do" theory?

 

[highfihoney]

If you're convinced that you won't get anything from a rider's ed class, you probably won't. On the other hand, if you're willing to keep an open mind to what's being said and demonstrated, I bet you'll learn at least one new thing, or be reminded of something you've forgotten and stopped doing. Typical with cruiser riders is the (mistaken) belief that the front brake is either useless or dangerous. In the last ERC class I taught there were two experienced HD riders that had very good bike-handling skills, but were convinced that "if you use the front brake it'll flip you over the handlebars!" One of these guys refused to believe otherwise, untill he saw his buddy out-braking him during practice by using the front brake.

By the way, since children look to their parents as their first role-models, are you comfortable letting your son see you on a bike without a helmet?

Bryan...or do you subscribe to the "do as I say, not as I do" theory?

Fools are fools no matter what they ride & good breaking skills are something that every rider should learn,the same breaking knowladge can be obtained from reading the manual that comes with the machine when you buy it but real knowladge & the ability to use it only comes from experience.

Im extremely comfortable letting my children see me without a helmet.

I grew up in a family that relied heavily on motorcycles for transportation & recreation & my family is the same,we all ride dirt very hard & wear the proper protection for whatever riding situation were in,my sons are being taught how to ride hard on dirt & the falls they take prepare them much more than any street riders course ever could,both my sons know how to lay their bikes down in an emergency & can demonstrate it,show me one person who learned to ride by taking a course that knows how to get off their machine at 40mph.

As for leading by example im a firm believer in it,i ride safely & so do they,helmets should be a thing of choice much like seatbelts & not forced on people by polititicians who answer to the insurance industry or by do gooders who feel the need to force their own values on others.So you know my stance on helmets, every riding situation is different with some requiring helmets & others not,depending on traffic,road conditions, speed & rider ability.

Right now im comfortable enough in my oldest son's riding ability to let him ride his hard tail HD to school but until he is 18 he must wear a helmet at all times,after that i have taught him well enough & he has learned enough to make his own choice.

 

[JAD2]

There were no Jap bikes in 1897... thats why we don't see any on the roads today.



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You took that TOOOO literally. There were alot of 60's and 70's Jap bikes sold in the US. Owners took no pride in them and treated them as disposable, which is still somewhat alot of the treatment as such. Anything that Asian made is still treated as a disposable item from cars on and its not because of the way we look at them. Their whole lifestyle and company philosophy dictates this and only because we are how we are, there now offering at least some parts, only new replacements however, to satisfy our concepts.

And made is USA, doesnt mean again literally, 100% so. There is no company really can say they truely offer that for all kinds of reasons. Why I wont get into because that would start literally a war. Lets just leave it as the base foundation of the company and profits are US!!

Now I dont if other got lost in my comparison of Bose to Japs bikes. But thats the way it should go. Japs bikes like Bose, do just what they were intended to do and gimmicky crap, like Crotch rockets are no different than the super Bose all one one wedge systems. Gimmicky!!!!! Harleys are specialized, tweaked, not overly advertised, sell themselves without advertising, kinda like other than Bose makes in electronics.

Now if you wanted to join the masses together and say Bike owners period, are like Bose, I'd buy that one!! Lets just say and overall stupidity in beliefs. Their weaving in and out of traffic, going outside of lane boundaries in construction sites, no helmets and the list goes on all well thinking that there right, invincible and the laws of the road only apply to cars and trucks. Now thats Bose like!!!

 

[jaxvon]

You took that TOOOO literally. There were alot of 60's and 70's Jap bikes sold in the US. Owners took no pride in them and treated them as disposable, which is still somewhat alot of the treatment as such. Anything that Asian made is still treated as a disposable item from cars on and its not because of the way we look at them. Their whole lifestyle and company philosophy dictates this and only because we are how we are, there now offering at least some parts, only new replacements however, to satisfy our concepts.

And made is USA, doesnt mean again literally, 100% so. There is no company really can say they truely offer that for all kinds of reasons. Why I wont get into because that would start literally a war. Lets just leave it as the base foundation of the company and profits are US!!

Now I dont if other got lost in my comparison of Bose to Japs bikes. But thats the way it should go. Japs bikes like Bose, do just what they were intended to do and gimmicky crap, like Crotch rockets are no different than the super Bose all one one wedge systems. Gimmicky!!!!! Harleys are specialized, tweaked, not overly advertised, sell themselves without advertising, kinda like other than Bose makes in electronics.

Now if you wanted to join the masses together and say Bike owners period, are like Bose, I'd buy that one!! Lets just say and overall stupidity in beliefs. Their weaving in and out of traffic, going outside of lane boundaries in construction sites, no helmets and the list goes on all well thinking that there right, invincible and the laws of the road only apply to cars and trucks. Now thats Bose like!!!

Uhhh....what? Logical fallacy alert!

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Well, Now I can say I've known someone who needlessly practiced crashing their bike.

Harleys are specialized, tweaked, not overly advertised, sell themselves without advertising,

Um... In this country Harley-Davidson® is one of the most heavily advertised companies. And that format does very well for their stockholders.

PS: Go ahead and buy a single share of Harley-Davidson, its an amazing thing to read their quarterly shareholder report. They know full well that they are first and formost a "lifestyle provider" and secondly a manufacturer of motorcycles. They make more money annually from the sale of licenced T-shirts, mugs, keychains, coasters, teddybears, pictures, pocket-knives, etc etc etc, none of which they manufacture themselves.

That is a company that has capitalism by the balls.

 

[JAD2]

Well, Now I can say I've known someone who needlessly practiced crashing their bike.



Um... In this country Harley-Davidson® is one of the most heavily advertised companies. And that format does very well for their stockholders.

PS: Go ahead and buy a single share of Harley-Davidson, its an amazing thing to read their quarterly shareholder report. They know full well that they are first and formost a "lifestyle provider" and secondly a manufacturer of motorcycles. They make more money annually from the sale of licenced T-shirts, mugs, keychains, coasters, teddybears, pictures, pocket-knives, etc etc etc, none of which they manufacture themselves.

That is a company that has capitalism by the balls.

Well now, I dont see Harley commercials on TV anywhere near the jap bikes. Its rare, very rare and the same thing anywhere else.
The only comparison that can be Bose like, is the idiot wanna bes, like Bose is for idiot wanna bes Audiophiles. But it ends there and Bose isnt Audiophile in any way shape nor form, but Harleys do have wanna bes trying to become what conceived to be a true Biker. See true Audiophiles do have a meaning to what they are,true Bikers also and a Jap bike will not merit a True Biker meaning. Enthusiast OK, Biker no, just as these forums say Bose is never Audiophile!

We cant help it that Bikers show pride and have everything that says Harley on it and Bose you may say is COPYING that direction and wanna bes are also in it so you think is Bose like. Nope it isnt!!!

 

[caupina]

but Harleys do have wanna bes trying to become what conceived to be a true Biker. See true Audiophiles do have a meaning to what they are,true Bikers also and a Jap bike will not merit a True Biker meaning. Enthusiast OK, Biker no, just as these forums say Bose is never Audiophile!

You have HD written all over your face . So to be a true biker you have to own a HD????. Then I guess I rather not be
You should admit that there is a lot of HD riders just buy into the "lifestyle" thing (don't you see the analogy there????), and not because of the hobby itself.

 

[JAD2]

Go out and ask the average red blooded American on the street 2 questions.

One what is True Audiophile

Second True Biker

You probably would have to lay down some information to a lot to goad them into a response on a Audiophile after some information was given to the premise if they didnt outright now.
But it would go something like this- Someone that spends way too much time and money on electronic equipment and has a obsession with it when there are better things to do in life and spend on.

Ask them what a True Biker was and there would be no hesitation other than you may have to explain you dont mean BICYCLES, MOTORCYCLES!!

It would go something like this- Rebel rousing trouble maker riding a god awful loud Harley, drunk half the time with tattoos, fighting, creating havoc where ever they go.

The Audiophile to the average person would include Bose people.
The Biker, would not for the most part, include Japs bikes. And if it did it would be someone that rides something else and is open minded or or has moved here to the US.

You as Audiophiles will not accept in any way shape nor form a Bose owner as a Audiophile, thats known, look at the threads.
Bikers as in Bikers treat Jap owners with just a little more respect, well at least they ride, even though its a rice burning pile of crap.

So what it boils down to, is Audiophiles within the Audiophile arena is just as like a Biker within a Biker arena. Within these realms, your rules that started this thread, following on the same trend/s, Bose cannot be linked to Harley, but could be for Jap bikes!!!

Even society as a whole would agree with this!!!

 

[caupina]

As for leading by example im a firm believer in it,i ride safely & so do they,helmets should be a thing of choice much like seatbelts & not forced on people by polititicians who answer to the insurance industry or by do gooders who feel the need to force their own values on others.So you know my stance on helmets, every riding situation is different with some requiring helmets & others not,depending on traffic,road conditions, speed & rider ability.

It's funny that at the beginning of your reply you mention that "fools are fools no matter what they ride", and then you go on saying that wearing a helmet depends on the riding conditions I can't think of a riding condition in which you would not need a helmet, or how anybody would want to ride without a helmet without being labeled as a fool.

 

[JAD2]

You have HD written all over your face . So to be a true biker you have to own a HD????. Then I guess I rather not be
You should admit that there is a lot of HD riders just buy into the "lifestyle" thing (don't you see the analogy there????), and not because of the hobby itself.

NO I DO NOT OWN A HARLEY.
I'll run over a Harley owner just as fast and a Jap owner when they cut out in lane construction!!

Yes, a true Biker under the definition played upon by the Audiophile to Bose linking, would state a Harley or custom V twin, with ape hangers or open pipes, chopped etc.

Harley owners, Jap copys of etc, into the "Lifestyle" would be Bose like people, that I could agree with!!!

 

[caupina]

\
It would go something like this- Rebel rousing trouble maker riding a god awful loud Harley, drunk half the time with tattoos, fighting, creating havoc where ever they go.

That reinforces my point: I don't want to be a true biker, but a good rider instead.
You could also spend a lot of money on your bike when it comes to aftermarket parts. I've done some upgrades on my Honda 954, and let tell you it has not been cheap, but I haven't gone "all the way" but somehow it could be similar to the way audiophiles spend money searching for the "ultimate sound" as for bikers is for the "ultimate performance".

 

[JAD2]

It's funny that at the beginning of your reply you mention that "fools are fools no matter what they ride", and then you go on saying that wearing a helmet depends on the riding conditions I can't think of a riding condition in which you would not need a helmet, or how anybody would want to ride without a helmet without being labeled as a fool.

Helmets is a debate like Bose is to speakers.

Bose does have its use all though most here say they dont.
They do produce sound
But they sound like ****

Helmets protect from head injuries
Not against a brick wall at 100 will it save death.

Subjective!!!!

 

[JAD2]

It's funny that at the beginning of your reply you mention that "fools are fools no matter what they ride", and then you go on saying that wearing a helmet depends on the riding conditions I can't think of a riding condition in which you would not need a helmet, or how anybody would want to ride without a helmet without being labeled as a fool.

Helmets is a debate like Bose is to speakers.

Bose does have its use all though most here say they dont.
They do produce sound
But they sound like ****

Helmets protect from head injuries
Not against a brick wall at 100mph will it save death.

Subjective!!!!

 

[JAD2]

That reinforces my point: I don't want to be a true biker, but a good rider instead.
You could also spend a lot of money on your bike when it comes to aftermarket parts. I've done some upgrades on my Honda 954, and let tell you it has not been cheap, but I haven't gone "all the way" but somehow it could be similar to the way audiophiles spend money searching for the "ultimate sound" as for bikers is for the "ultimate performance".

No it doesnt!!!! You can twist it anyway you want.
If I went on the premise you just layed down, you then wouldnt want to be a true audiohile, but a music listener and accept Bose as such as part of the search for the ultimate sound.

 

[caupina]

Helmets protect from head injuries
Not against a brick wall at 100 will it save death.

Subjective!!!!

You have to be kidding!!!!. Why don't you do a little test. Stand up on the pavement, and let yourself go forward or backward, doesn't matter, holding your arms and hands against your body so you don't cushion your fall, let your head take the hit, try it with a helmet first and then without one. Make you sure you have somebody as a witness so he/she could email us the results of this little test.

You don't to be riding at 100mph to sustain major or even lethal head injuries.

 

[JAD2]

You have to be kidding!!!!. Why don't you do a little test. Stand up on the pavement, and let yourself go forward or backward, doesn't matter, holding your arms and hands against your body so you don't cushion your fall, let your head take the hit, try it with a helmet first and then without one. Make you sure you have somebody as a witness so he/she could email us the results of this little test.

You don't to be riding at 100mph to sustain major or even lethal head injuries.

Oh, I didnt myself recommend wearing nor not wearing a helmet.
It something that can be subjective like Bose.
Audiophiles will not allow Bose
You'll get Biker people that will argue the same way, I just threw in a stupid example, just as others do in Bose threads. Each has merits, just what side you'll pick!!

 

[highfihoney]

It's funny that at the beginning of your reply you mention that "fools are fools no matter what they ride", and then you go on saying that wearing a helmet depends on the riding conditions I can't think of a riding condition in which you would not need a helmet, or how anybody would want to ride without a helmet without being labeled as a fool.

The key to your statement is that (YOU CANT THINK OF A SINGLE RIDING CONDITION) so that must mean that others cant either.

I can think of several riding conditions where i refuse to wear a helmet such as the side streets i was riding on when that pic was taken or when i ride in a large group or a funeral with police escort.

 

[flyv65]

Fools are fools no matter what they ride & good breaking skills are something that every rider should learn,the same breaking knowladge can be obtained from reading the manual that comes with the machine when you buy it but real knowladge & the ability to use it only comes from experience.

True: and without constant practice those same skills we work so hard to aquire will atrophy. But it's also true that very few people are fortunate enough to have someone who is both a skilled rider and capable of passing that knowledge on in a retainable fashion. It's possible your children have such a person in yourself, and if so they're quite lucky.

Im extremely comfortable letting my children see me without a helmet.

Your children are your own concern, and it's none of my business: I only thought to provide information you might not have.

I grew up in a family that relied heavily on motorcycles for transportation & recreation & my family is the same,we all ride dirt very hard & wear the proper protection for whatever riding situation were in.

I also grew up in a riding household: got my first dirt bike at 10, as a matter of fact.

My sons are being taught how to ride hard on dirt & the falls they take prepare them much more than any street riders course ever could,both my sons know how to lay their bikes down in an emergency & can demonstrate it,show me one person who learned to ride by taking a course that knows how to get off their machine at 40mph.

I suspect that might be the point at which we diverge on training: we don't teach people how to fall off their bikes at 40 mph-we teach them how to stay on them. Anyone who says they had to "lay their bike down" so they wouldn't crash into another vehicle/lightpole/fence/whatever has just proven they don't really know how to ride, and should stop getting their technique from the Terminator movies. i urge both you and your son(s) to take a class and learn how to ride properly.

As for leading by example im a firm believer in it,i ride safely & so do they,helmets should be a thing of choice much like seatbelts & not forced on people by polititicians who answer to the insurance industry or by do gooders who feel the need to force their own values on others.So you know my stance on helmets, every riding situation is different with some requiring helmets & others not,depending on traffic,road conditions, speed & rider ability.

I sincerely hope that if you're teaching your children it's a good idea to lay down a bike, they've chosen to wear a helmet that day as well...

Right now im comfortable enough in my oldest son's riding ability to let him ride his hard tail HD to school but until he is 18 he must wear a helmet at all times,after that i have taught him well enough & he has learned enough to make his own choice.

Indeed: personal choice, based on an awareness of risk and how to manage it are up to us in the end.

Bryan

 

[highfihoney]

True: and without constant practice those same skills we work so hard to aquire will atrophy. But it's also true that very few people are fortunate enough to have someone who is both a skilled rider and capable of passing that knowledge on in a retainable fashion. It's possible your children have such a person in yourself, and if so they're quite lucky.

I suspect that might be the point at which we diverge on training: we don't teach people how to fall off their bikes at 40 mph-we teach them how to stay on them. Anyone who says they had to "lay their bike down" so they wouldn't crash into another vehicle/lightpole/fence/whatever has just proven they don't really know how to ride, and should stop getting their technique from the Terminator movies. i urge both you and your son(s) to take a class and learn how to ride properly.

I sincerely hope that if you're teaching your children it's a good idea to lay down a bike, they've chosen to wear a helmet that day as well...

Bryan

The reference to the terminator movie is pretty cool & so is the one where you dont teach people how to fall off their bikes but it dont reflect real world driving conditions where women put on their make up while driving through an intersection & run a red light(yeah try & plan for that one)or guys reading the paper while driving,or how about getting hit in the face with a slurpee thrown from a passing car,ive had all of them & no matter how well you ride & how defensive you ride you cant plan ahead for everything.

What does this class teach riders about going through an intersection where oposing traffic is at a complete stop then as soon as the biker is half way through the intersection a driver decides to make a wild right hand turn across all lanes directly in front of them? That rider better damm well know how to lay his bike down or its t bone time.

You can take classes till the cows come home but no class will prepare any rider against the stupidity of people who are multi tasking while driving or the same stupid & dangerous people who simply dont see a biker.

Knowing how to lay down a bike is a nessacary skill that every rider should know how to do & yes my children wear helmets,full body leather,breast plates,boots,shin & wrist guards & all other appropriate saftey gear,knowing how to ride hard on dirt also means knowing how to take a fall.

 

[flyv65]

You took that TOOOO literally. There were alot of 60's and 70's Jap bikes sold in the US. Owners took no pride in them and treated them as disposable, which is still somewhat alot of the treatment as such. Anything that Asian made is still treated as a disposable item from cars on and its not because of the way we look at them. Their whole lifestyle and company philosophy dictates this and only because we are how we are, there now offering at least some parts, only new replacements however, to satisfy our concepts.

Are you in the habit of making sweeping generalizations like this all the time and not being challenged for it? References, Sir, please! Now, if you were going to say something to the effect of "In my circle of family and friends, the few times we purchased Japanese products we took no pride in them and treated them as disposable; simply something to be consumed and tossed aside-no doubt their low prices led us to these actions." Well, if you said something like that then you would technically be right. however when you say that "Japanese bike owners took no pride in ownership" then you've got to be able to prove it.

And made is USA, doesnt mean again literally, 100% so. There is no company really can say they truely offer that for all kinds of reasons. Why I wont get into because that would start literally a war. Lets just leave it as the base foundation of the company and profits are US!!

The "made in the USA" tag is a way to avoid tariffs on various imported goods, and is defined by Congress and the President when they pass the tariffs. Just one reason Honda has had the Marysville, Ohio plant in operation since 1983.

Now I dont if other got lost in my comparison of Bose to Japs bikes. But thats the way it should go. Japs bikes like Bose, do just what they were intended to do and gimmicky crap, like Crotch rockets are no different than the super Bose all one one wedge systems. Gimmicky!!!!!

You do of course realize that I could cut and paste the above handful of sentences into a rebuttal, do a "search and replace", swapping "Harley" for "Jap" or "crotch rocket", and by your logic I would have proven you wrong? You see that you haven't provided a single rationale much less fact for your stance, don't you?

References, please, your statements are baseless without them.

Harleys are specialized, tweaked, not overly advertised, sell themselves without advertising, kinda like other than Bose makes in electronics.

Wow. simply, just, wow. How can you say that? what if somebody believed you, or thought you were telling the truth? Wouldn't you feel guilty for lying to them?

Now if you wanted to join the masses together and say Bike owners period, are like Bose, I'd buy that one!! Lets just say and overall stupidity in beliefs. Their weaving in and out of traffic, going outside of lane boundaries in construction sites, no helmets and the list goes on all well thinking that there right, invincible and the laws of the road only apply to cars and trucks. Now thats Bose like!!!

This is the second time you've brought up construction zone madness, and attributed it to motorcycles without supporting evidence-is there a story here we should know about?

So having slogged through your entire post I find myself back at Square One: your logic supporting your stance that "Jap Bikes" are like Bose can be summed up in one sentence: "because I said so". Regrettably, you've failed to convince me using facts or persuasion, and I suspect there are others out there who would agree with me.

Bryan