Going with a new SVS sub. Which model?

[mario64]

I'm looking to upgrade my circa 2000 Phase Technology Octave Power 10 sub. I'm trying to decide between the SVS SB1000 and PB1000. My AVR is a Denon 1913, mains are Polk Monitor 5's (old too but sound great), center is Polk CS10 and surrounds are OMW3. We use the system solely to watch movies. Our living room is approx 12' x 14'. My only concern with the Phase Tech sub is that it tends to sound boomy and muddy at times, presumably because it only has a 100W amp and is ported. Another thing I've noticed is that due to the small room size sometimes I can "hear" the sub. Meaning I can tell the lows are coming from the sub's location. Because of this I have it sitting between the mains beside the TV to balance the lows better.

I've read many posts about the pros and cons of sealed vs ported and it seems most feel that ported is best for movies. I'm wondering, however, in my case with such a small room would I be better off with the SB1000? Or would the build quality of the PB1000 be such that it would not have these issues? I certainly don't want to end up with less bass but from the specs I would think either of these units would blow my old one away. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Nuance AH]

I'd go with the PB-1000 of the two you mentioned. Have you considered the Rythmik FV12R? It's about the same price.

 

[mario64]

I'd go with the PB-1000 of the two you mentioned. Have you considered the Rythmik FV12R? It's about the same price.

Is the Rythmik better than SVS? Also I saw today that newegg has the Klipsch RW-12D for $299. How would that compare to either of these?

 

[shadyJ]

Is the Rythmik better than SVS? Also I saw today that newegg has the Klipsch RW-12D for $299. How would that compare to either of these?

I think either one would be better, they would certainly have more mid bass, but the klipsch is unlikely to have better definition than the SVS 1000s. The Rythmik is a terrific buy though, I think it will be a head and shoulders over the SVS subs. There really isn't any reason to get the 1000s with the FV12 around, unless you really can't stretch that extra $50. Another sub that likely has way more mid bass output than all of these is the Premiere Acoustics PA-150, and it is only $425.

 

[Steve81]

There really isn't any reason to get the 1000s with the FV12 around, unless you really can't stretch that extra $50.

Performance wise perhaps not (though neither have been bench tested that I'm aware of), but this strikes me as one reason why someone might choose SVS:
Your SVS Bill of Rights - SVS

 

[theJman]

Is the Rythmik better than SVS? Also I saw today that newegg has the Klipsch RW-12D for $299. How would that compare to either of these?

I have both the PB1000 and SB1000 sitting here looking at me, waiting for a review, and I can say that for HT the PB1000 is the one to go for. I haven't gotten my Rythmik LV12R yet, so I can't say what that one is like. For $300 the Klipsch is very tempting, and if all you do is HT that might be your best bang-for-the-buck choice. It's hard to top that for 3 bills.

 

[shadyJ]

Most of those bill of rights is just stuff that other companies already offer, they just don't turn it into a big marketing spiel. The only thing in there that is unique is the trade-up policy. Also, their bill of rights claim of their products outperforming every other product in its price point is laughable.

 

[j_garcia]

Most of those bill of rights is just stuff that other companies already offer, they just don't turn it into a big marketing spiel. The only thing in there that is unique is the trade-up policy. Also, their bill of rights claim of their products outperforming every other product in its price point is laughable.

Show me ONE other company that offers a no lemon guarantee? 1yr performance upgrade? Sorry, I don't think so. Those same "most" other companies won't come close to the type of real service you will get from SVS, IMHO.

 

[Steve81]

Show me ONE other company that offers a no lemon guarantee? 1yr performance upgrade? Sorry, I don't think so. Those same "most" other companies won't come close to the type of real service you will get from SVS, IMHO.

I'm also pretty sure Rythmik, Hsu, Outlaw, etc aren't offering a 5 year comprehensive warranty either. Only ID I'm aware of that offers similar terms is PSA.

 

[shadyJ]

Lol, that no lemon thing is just a warranty, after all, what company wouldn't replace a defective product after breaking down three times in a year? Think about how much that unit has already cost that company, anyone would replace a unit that can't stay fixed within its warranty coverage. And how often do performance upgrades happen where this is a big deal? Can you cite a single instance of a performance upgrade happening? They can offer it because, if that ever happened, it would likely be no more than a firmware upgrade which would take very little labor on their part, and I doubt they would cover shipping which would be the real expense. Also, many companies offer the customer service you get from SVS, like Aperion, Rythmik, Hsu, Outlaw, and especially smaller outfits where you get more personalized service like Philhamonic, Funk, Seaton, etc. Any of these companies would do all of the same stuff, with the only exception being the 1 year trade-up thing. If these other companies were smarter, they would offer the trade up too, as that helps to keep you locked into a particular brand.

 

[shadyJ]

I'm also pretty sure Rythmik, Hsu, Outlaw, etc aren't offering a 5 year comprehensive warranty either. Only ID I'm aware of that offers similar terms is PSA.

Emotiva offers 5 year warranties. You can also get extended warranties from some of these companies, I know Hsu do offer extended 5 year amp warranties for a surcharge.

 

[j_garcia]

EVERY COMPANY YOU LISTED is an ID company Show me a mass market company. SVS has definitely developed new drivers or new amps in the past within the lifespan of their product. A mass market company would release it as a new product and offer you nothing. SVS also sold it as an updated product, but offered those updates to existing customers when they were backwards compatible, though yes you have to pay shipping but you didn't have to send the old parts back. This happened at least 2-3 times for SVS, so no it wasn't a single instance

Sure it is a warranty basically, but it sure looks like a damn good one to me.

SONY did not cover my PS3 for a KNOWN DEFECT 3 years after I paid $600 for their product. I had to pay to get it repaired.

 

[Steve81]

Emotiva offers 5 year warranties.

Good reach.

You can also get extended warranties from some of these companies, I know Hsu do offer extended 5 year amp warranties for a surcharge.

That's the thing: from a consumer standpoint it shouldn't have to be an extra surcharge. Whether its a matter of semantics or not, offering an unconditional five year warranty standard imparts a sense of confidence in the product that paying for an extended warranty does not. That every single SVS reviewed in the Sledge era has basically been utterly bulletproof in operation only reinforces that impression. But yeah, I can't think of a single reason why anyone would buy a SVS sub either.

 

[shadyJ]

EVERY COMPANY YOU LISTED is an ID company Show me a mass market company. SVS has definitely developed new drivers or new amps in the past within the lifespan of their product. A mass market company would release it as a new product and offer you nothing. SVS also sold it as an updated product, but offered those updates to existing customers when they were backwards compatible, though yes you have to pay shipping but you didn't have to send the old parts back. This happened at least 2-3 times for SVS, so no it wasn't a single instance

Sure it is a warranty basically, but it sure looks like a damn good one to me.

SONY did not cover my PS3 for a KNOWN DEFECT 3 years after I paid $600 for their product. I had to pay to get it repaired.

As far as I know, SVS has only started that free upgrade thing a little while ago, and no product improvements have occurred since that point. Before then, as far as I know, you had to pay for product updates, such as going from the BASH to the Sledge amps. They didn't just give you a Sledge amp for free. Correct me if I am wrong here. Anyway, since they look like they are going to stick with the current product configurations for a real long time, this is basically offering nothing except possibly firmware updates. They are almost certainly not going to switch to a new improved driver or amp if it means they have to give hundreds or thousands away for free to existing customers.

 

[Steve81]

Anyway, since they look like they are going to stick with the current product configurations for a real long time, this is basically offering nothing except possibly firmware updates.

Because you're clearly a SVS insider with detailed knowledge of their plans

 

[Adam]

Good reach.

You sound sarcastic. I mean, come on, Emotiva has graciously continued to ignore me well past the original five years.



It's service like I got from Emotiva that make me absolutely love companies like SVS. Seriously. I dealt with both companies on purchases back in 2007, and it was night and day. If I only dealt with Amazon and SVS, I might take outstanding service for granted.

To the OP - I recommend contacting SVS, specifically Ed Mullen, regarding your question between those two models. Back when I was shopping, they gave me honest advice on what would fit my needs/desires, and I never felt like they were trying to sell me something more expensive just to make a buck. Btw, yes, there are many good subs out there from different manufacturers - both ID and mass market. At some point, you just need to find a product and seller that you feel good about, make the purchase, and if it sounds good to you - don't look back...because there are always others out there. I'm not saying SVS is the company for you, but I believe that they are a solid choice.

 

[j_garcia]

As far as I know, SVS has only started that free upgrade thing a little while ago, and no product improvements have occurred since that point. Before then, as far as I know, you had to pay for product updates, such as going from the BASH to the Sledge amps. They didn't just give you a Sledge amp for free. Correct me if I am wrong here. Anyway, since they look like they are going to stick with the current product configurations for a real long time, this is basically offering nothing except possibly firmware updates. They are almost certainly not going to switch to a new improved driver or amp if it means they have to give hundreds or thousands away for free to existing customers.

You haven't been following SVS long enough then. As I mentioned, they already did this in the past - long before sledge amps came along, which is the example you asked for. Going forward, you may be correct, that they probably won't release a new driver or amps anytime soon; but you never know.

The point being, a big company isn't likely to offer anything close to what is being offered by them. Yes it is marketing, but my guess is they will actually deliver on their offer if a customer puts it to the test. A large company is far more likely to spend their time trying to deny your claim for a stupid technicality than just taking care of their customer. ALL warranties are the same - just to make you feel more secure about buying a product. What really matters is what happens when you need it.

 

[shadyJ]

Good reach.

How is this a reach? You asked for a counter example and I provided one.

That's the thing: from a consumer standpoint it shouldn't have to be an extra surcharge. Whether its a matter of semantics or not, offering an unconditional five year warranty standard imparts a sense of confidence in the product that paying for an extended warranty does not. That every single SVS reviewed in the Sledge era has basically been utterly bulletproof in operation only reinforces that impression. But yeah, I can't think of a single reason why anyone would buy a SVS sub either.

Lol, ok lets examine this briefly. You are no doubt aware of the bath tub curve for product reliability. Most product failures happen within the first X time of their operation, or some time later, past another point, lets call that point X2. From reading about these subs, it seems like that X2 point is like 6 or 7 years down the road, if not a bit later. All of these companies have you covered up till X, but none of them cover you after X2. There are other factors involved, like the how hard the sub is being run, humidity, heat, etc., which do bring about an earlier failure, and here is where a longer than average warranty is going to be useful. But if you buy a sub from any of these established companies, it is very likely to last you longer than 5 years. The peace of mind from having a longer warranty is nice, but at the expense of a major performance deficit? It is a better value proposition to spend a bit more for a sub which has a strong performance advantage and an extended warranty than a sub with so-so performance and a matching warranty.

 

[shadyJ]

You haven't been following SVS long enough then. As I mentioned, they already did this in the past - long before sledge amps came along, which is the example you asked for. Going forward, you may be correct, that they probably won't release a new driver or amps anytime soon; but you never know.

I didn't hear about that. What was the upgrade they gave away freely?

 

[Steve81]

How is this a reach? You asked for a counter example and I provided one.

Umm, no I didn't. I pointed out that very few of SVS's competitors offer similar warranty terms. I noted that PSA does, but that I couldn't think of any others that do. That wasn't an invitation to offer a counter example, nor does your example disprove my point.

From reading about these subs, it seems like that X2 point is like 6 or 7 years down the road, if not a bit later.

Well gosh, I'm sure you've done enough research to determine that definitively.

The peace of mind from having a longer warranty is nice, but at the expense of a major performance deficit? It is a better value proposition to spend a bit more for a sub which has a strong performance advantage and an extended warranty than a sub with so-so performance and a matching warranty.

As a final thought before I bid this thread adieu, you might consider that not everyone assesses value the same as you do. I'd also hardly qualify the performance of any SVS subwoofer as "so-so". They may not offer the best dB for the $$, but their overall value proposition seems to be popular enough.