Dual Subwoofers - what to choose?

Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Hey that said, how about a pair of PC2000 Pros? I still think they're undersized but wouldn't they offer better extension than a pair of SB3000s? They're on budget, look pretty nice and have (in my opinion) a nice form factor. If it's possible to bump the budget some more I like a pair of PC4000s even better for this application.
 
K

kini

Full Audioholic
I totally agree with Shady on this. As long as the listener is a reasonable distance from the subs a pair of something like the SB3000s would be perfectly fine for most. Based on the measurements and with a little boundary gain they'll be good from about 25hz and for sure 30hz. Nearly all HT and music bass is above 20hz anyway. Not everyone is chasing ULF, in fact nearly no one does. It's only a very, very few that frequent forums.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Hey that said, how about a pair of PC2000 Pros? I still think they're undersized but wouldn't they offer better extension than a pair of SB3000s? They're on budget, look pretty nice and have (in my opinion) a nice form factor. If it's possible to bump the budget some more I like a pair of PC4000s even better for this application.
Imo, the pb2k pros fit the bill the best. Performance vs waf vs floor space. I did mention earlier about having good frequency response at the LP giving good enough experience. That is not quite the same as pressuring the actual airspace, which is not going to happen in the OP’s room. Probably never. So for the $2k budget I think the PC2k pro wins.
That might not work though if he or waf doesn’t favor the looks. In that case a dual drive from “shoe” is probably the best value. Pretty darn big though....
Shady does have a good point about size vs performance, but I agree with you in that if movies are a priority, then aesthetics lose and performance wins. Especially if this is on concrete which I’m guessing it is being an open concept.
Hard to say too. Since OP has been quiet. Lol
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I totally agree with Shady on this. As long as the listener is a reasonable distance from the subs a pair of something like the SB3000s would be perfectly fine for most. Based on the measurements and with a little boundary gain they'll be good from about 25hz and for sure 30hz. Nearly all HT and music bass is above 20hz anyway. Not everyone is chasing ULF, in fact nearly no one does. It's only a very, very few that frequent forums.
Personally I think the reason few people chase ULF is they don’t know it’s out there, or what it’s even like. Unless they have a “friend” lol.
You are correct that the majority of HT bass is over 20hz, but certainly not all, and imo, having 16-18hz shake your guts is irreplaceable. The “nerds” like us, chasing deep deep bass, have probably gotten a taste of it and just want more. And more...and more...lol.

Mostly when I recommend someone skips the stop gap subs is just because imo, I’m looking out for them. But once, cry once. Takes a lot longer for buyers remorse, and “what if” to set in.
I do agree, and have said that as long as FR is good, satisfaction can be had, but again, I think the room is too big to bolster much below 25-30, and imo think he’d be upgrading in short order.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I totally agree with Shady on this. As long as the listener is a reasonable distance from the subs a pair of something like the SB3000s would be perfectly fine for most. Based on the measurements and with a little boundary gain they'll be good from about 25hz and for sure 30hz. Nearly all HT and music bass is above 20hz anyway. Not everyone is chasing ULF, in fact nearly no one does. It's only a very, very few that frequent forums.
I wouldn't day I'm chasing ULF, but I will say I can tell when my subs are struggling with a track vs. when they are happy and in their lane.

I have an office sub that goes down to ~27hz -3db and it sounds great almost all the time, but when it tries to dig deep, it can't. I don't ever want to hear it struggling. I want clean output no matter what content I'm watching.

The 4 in my theater can go lower than 20hz, but not much. They don't ever struggle though so it really sounds quite a bit better even though I can't "hear" the content under 20hz.
 
cbecker33

cbecker33

Audioholic
Wow - what a great amount of info! I'll do my best to answer questions/give a further explanation.

For that much air space I'd be looking at ported. The Hsu VTF-15H MK2 dual drive package comes in just under budget and should be amazing.
That box is just too big for the space - I am most limited by the depth of the cabinet - around 19" is about the max before the sub begins encroaching on the room.

What is your DIY sub?
Stryke Audio HE12 is a sealed box with a Dayton Audio 500w plate amp. I actually have a Stryke Audio HE18 in a dual PR box (although the PRs have rotted away) and a Mackie 2400w amp in storage....

Quality bang for buck I don't think you can do much better than HSU. I'm guessing based on your first choice a big, ported 15" sub won't fit the bill tho...
Not preferred - the actual listening/watching space isn't that large.

Assuming the room measurements are correct that's 10,000 cubic feet, way too large for a pair of SB-3000's.
They are close enough - my first floor is a rectangle.

Strategically placed a pair of something like the JTR Captivator 2400 might be up to the task, but a single one of those would exceed your budget. You have a huge area to contend with, if you want to get something that will no longer be described as "inadequate" you'll need to increase the budget. Large space=large investment I'm afraid.
I agree, but I also do not need to fill the whole space as my listening area is confined to the front third (or so) of the floor. I might like, but do not need , the kitchen to be slamming!

Could always go with a bunch of in-wall subs and hope for the best if you can't get a decent sub and have WAF intact.
I almost exclusively have exterior walls to work with - that can't be good for R-value.

With your room size (as others have said) it's just not going to work with smaller subs. You need something that can push tons of air while still sounding good. Multiple subs is really the only way to go.
Say goodbye to the coat closet?

I was thinking of this too. As long as the FR is good at the LP... Still agree that ported wins the day, and if he’s on concrete even more so.
Actually the listening position would no more that 9ft from the subs (if placed next to the front towers). The 'impromptu dance floor' would be about 15-20ft. Not only am I not on concrete (hardwood) but the engineered floor trusses are a pretty big span.

...but I'm thinking a pair of Monolith 12" ported THX subs for $1600 would make any reasonable person nauseous at 20Hz...

Performance vs waf vs floor space.
My wife is smaller than most of the big ported boxes suggested in this thread but I guaran-damn-tee she hits harder.

I did mention earlier about having good frequency response at the LP giving good enough experience. That is not quite the same as pressuring the actual airspace, which is not going to happen in the OP’s room. Probably never. So for the $2k budget I think the PC2k pro wins.
Intriguing - I'm not wild about the looks but they aren't offensive. What about if I stretched my budget? Size/looks are still going to be important...

In that case a dual drive from “shoe” is probably the best value. Pretty darn big though....
Que?

Hard to say too. Since OP has been quiet. Lol
Damn. I like to pop in and out of the forum every decade or so. ;)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Lol. “Shoe” is how you say HSU.
Couple times a decade? Nice! No need to rush. It just costs more money lol.

As far as upping the budget, imo it still comes down to size. For me, sealed is only appt when space is tight. Seems that you guys feel that’s the case. If you’re really interested in the SB3K, I’d say order a pair and see what they do. If you like em, DONE! If not have em sent the PB’s next.
If you do like the SB, then you can build a BOSS riser to shake the couch.

The Hideaway Theater
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Wow - what a great amount of info! I'll do my best to answer questions/give a further explanation.



That box is just too big for the space - I am most limited by the depth of the cabinet - around 19" is about the max before the sub begins encroaching on the room.



Stryke Audio HE12 is a sealed box with a Dayton Audio 500w plate amp. I actually have a Stryke Audio HE18 in a dual PR box (although the PRs have rotted away) and a Mackie 2400w amp in storage....



Not preferred - the actual listening/watching space isn't that large.



They are close enough - my first floor is a rectangle.



I agree, but I also do not need to fill the whole space as my listening area is confined to the front third (or so) of the floor. I might like, but do not need , the kitchen to be slamming!



I almost exclusively have exterior walls to work with - that can't be good for R-value.



Say goodbye to the coat closet?



Actually the listening position would no more that 9ft from the subs (if placed next to the front towers). The 'impromptu dance floor' would be about 15-20ft. Not only am I not on concrete (hardwood) but the engineered floor trusses are a pretty big span.






My wife is smaller than most of the big ported boxes suggested in this thread but I guaran-damn-tee she hits harder.



Intriguing - I'm not wild about the looks but they aren't offensive. What about if I stretched my budget? Size/looks are still going to be important...



Que?



Damn. I like to pop in and out of the forum every decade or so. ;)
At this point I'd have to defer to Shady. He's our resident sub expert and has measured and reviewed many of them. The SB3000 is a real humdinger (I don't know why that tickles my funny bone so much, lol) and will give you some really good performance above 30-40 hz or so, but you're absolutely compromising on deep bass with sealed designs that size. It's really a question of performance vs aesthetics at this point. Which is more important? You're dealing with set in stone laws of physics here, and if you want deep bass at decent volumes you're gonna want to go with a ported design.

If you find the cylinders not too offensive the PC2K Pro might be the better choice here, but a PC4000 would likely not leave you wondering if you should have bumped it up to start with. Those are pretty significantly over your budget tho...
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
My 4 12" subs serve my theater well, but they don't dig deep enough for me. They're quite ugly as they haven't been finished yet, but they sound great. Can't tell how ugly they are once the lights are out. :oops:
I know of a few people that run a 4x sealed-12" sub configuration. The one I've heard a couple of years ago with Rythmiks was pretty impressive. It was a medium-sized room, perhaps 17x19 or thereabouts with a 9 to 10 foot ceiling. The one thing I did notice was four long power cables and four much longer line-level cables running to the subs. A four-sub configuration would never work in my room for that reason. [I know someone who tried the SVS wireless adapters for powered subs, but he was convinced that the system sounded better overall with wired connections, and thought it was a possible latency-related issue because he wasn't using a sound processor (like an AVR), which would allow you to adjust the sub distances. I never heard the system, so I can't say.]
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Warlord
I know of a few people that run a 4x sealed-12" sub configuration. The one I've heard a couple of years ago with Rythmiks was pretty impressive. It was a medium-sized room, perhaps 17x19 or thereabouts with a 9 to 10 foot ceiling. The one thing I did notice was four long power cables and four much longer line-level cables running to the subs. A four-sub configuration would never work in my room for that reason. [I know someone who tried the SVS wireless adapters for powered subs, but he was convinced that the system sounded better overall with wired connections, and thought it was a possible latency-related issue because he wasn't using a sound processor (like an AVR), which would allow you to adjust the sub distances. I never heard the system, so I can't say.]
The cable issue is one I face in my office, but luckily I was able to hide them in the theater. Helps that all subs are passive and the amps are outside the theater. My room is smaller than that. I'm around 14x15 with 8 foot ceiling. Only 300w to each sub, but the results have been very good so far.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Okay, I fired up a chat with Ryan over at SVS!

Screenshot_2021-01-27-13-20-50-1.png
Screenshot_2021-01-27-13-20-38-1.png




Straight from the horse's mouth! I think starting out with a pair of PC2K Pros with an option to take advantage of the upgrade program was a great suggestion.
 
cbecker33

cbecker33

Audioholic
Okay, I fired up a chat with Ryan over at SVS!

View attachment 44056View attachment 44057



Straight from the horse's mouth! I think starting out with a pair of PC2K Pros with an option to take advantage of the upgrade program was a great suggestion.
Oof....the wife wasn't as enthusiastic about the tube design as I was :confused: SB3000s or SB4000s? Are the 4ks offering something that the 3ks can't or is it more of the same?
 
T

Twiddle23

Enthusiast
Rythmik L12's or F12's . L12's $560 bucks each. Get 4 - one for each side of your brain.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Oof....the wife wasn't as enthusiastic about the tube design as I was :confused: SB3000s or SB4000s? Are the 4ks offering something that the 3ks can't or is it more of the same?
You're absolutely compromising on deep bass with sealed designs that size. It's really a question of performance vs aesthetics at this point. Which is more important? You're dealing with set in stone laws of physics here, and if you want deep bass at decent volumes you're gonna want to go with a ported design.
That's pretty much where you're at right now. The 4000 will pretty much give you more of the same. More power and spl in that 30-40 hz and up range. They'll thump for sure, but just don't dig as deep as a ported sub will. It may be enough for you, it may not. What is nice about SVS is their 45 day trial period. You could order the SB3000s and try them out for a few weeks risk free while you make up your mind. Another approach could be a pair of SB3000s now, and another pair down the road. 4 of those, strategically placed might work out really nice.
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
OK, going to throw another option out there for you: How about the HSU ULS-15 mk2? It does better than the SVS SB3000 at 20 Hz and you can get it in a rosenut finish (maybe higher WAF?). It also fits nicely within your 19" depth limitation. Plus, two of them in rosenut cost a touch over what one SB4000 in piano black does.

https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2Dual.html

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-uls-15-mk2/measurements

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-3000/conclusion
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Has anyone suggested, or have you looked at the HSU ULS-15 MK2? It's a little larger than the SB3000, but still a sealed design and smaller than the ported options that we've been tossing about. Looking at Shady's measurements it also has some more muscle in the lower frequencies. Not bad looking in the Rosenut finish either. Best of all, it fits your budget. They do not have the same generous return policy SVS does tho...

U15MK2R-600.jpg
U15MK2R-G-600.jpg


 
Last edited:
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
OK, going to throw another option out there for you: How about the HSU ULS-15 mk2? It does better than the SVS SB3000 at 20 Hz and you can get it in a rosenut finish (maybe higher WAF?). It also fits nicely within your 19" depth limitation. Plus, two of them in rosenut cost a touch over what one SB4000 in piano black does.

https://www.hsuresearch.com/products/uls-15mk2Dual.html

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/hsu-uls-15-mk2/measurements

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-3000/conclusion
Omg you posted this while I was looking up measurements and dl'ing images! Ha ha!

I mean, great minds and all...
 
T

Twiddle23

Enthusiast
Servo subwoofers better imo, lots of svs love in this thread
 

Latest posts

newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top