Dual Subwoofers - what to choose?

cbecker33

cbecker33

Audioholic
I am looking to purchase dual subwoofers to replace a DIY sub I made years ago in the main room of my home. This 'room' is the entire first floor (open concept) that is roughly 1,000 sq ft with 10ft ceilings. The home theater is pushed up to the front right corner of the home.

The current setup is a Denon TX-NR757 and Infinty IL40s (front), IL36C, IL30s (rear) and the aforementioned homemade sub (5.1). Currently my sub hides behind the sofa. Overall, I find the bass to be inadequate and the placement to be less than ideal (it is where my wife typically sits when watching movies and she finds the spot to be far too boomy). For these two reasons I would like to go with 2 subs placed beside the front towers. Aesthetically, I would prefer a smaller sub. I would say 80% of listening is movies/TV and 20% Spotify premium (EDM/Rap).

I am leaning towards a pair of SVS SB-3000 (due to their reputation, size and aesthetics). Am I on the right track? I've browsed Hsu and Rythmik and haven't found anything that beats out the SB-3000 (at least according to my requirements). My budget is approx. $2k for the pair. Any help is much appreciated.
 
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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
That’s a lot of air space, and while the 3000 series is great, I’d look at PC4000’s. Small footprint but crazy ported power for movies and EDM.
Outside of SVS HSU, Rythmik and JTR are favorites as well as PSA. SVS wins with the PC’s smaller form, so it might depend how important that is.
Edit: oops. Just saw the budget. Recalculating...
 
NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Field Marshall
For that much air space I'd be looking at ported. The Hsu VTF-15H MK2 dual drive package comes in just under budget and should be amazing.

What is your DIY sub?
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Yeah, you're gonna want to go ported with that much space. You'll need a half dozen sealed subs for that room! :p

I like Bill's PC4000 suggestion, but I see that's out of budget. I think a pair of PC3000s would be a lot more appropriate for your room than the SB at minimum tho.

*Edit: I just remembered that they don't have a PC3000... lol. PB3000!
 
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Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Quality bang for buck I don't think you can do much better than HSU. I'm guessing based on your first choice a big, ported 15" sub won't fit the bill tho...
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Quality bang for buck I don't think you can do much better than HSU. I'm guessing based on your first choice a big, ported 15" sub won't fit the bill tho...
Yeah, this is a tough one. Size vs capability vs WAf lol
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
I am looking to purchase dual subwoofers to replace a DIY sub I made years ago in the main room of my home. This 'room' is the entire first floor (open concept) that is roughly 1,000 sq ft with 10ft ceilings.

I would say 80% of listening is movies/TV and 20% Spotify premium (EDM/Rap).

I am leaning towards a pair of SBS SB-3000 (due to their reputation, size and aesthetics). Am I on the right track? I've browsed Hsu and Rythmik and haven't found anything that beats out the SB-3000 (at least according to my requirements). My budget is approx. $2k for the pair.
Assuming the room measurements are correct that's 10,000 cubic feet, way too large for a pair of SB-3000's. I'm not even sure half a dozen of them would suffice for that much space. As the others have mentioned, with that much area to fill ported is your only option. However, your listening requirements, space and budget don't align unfortunately; what you will use the sub for requires a lot of horsepower, I can't imagine a scenario where $2k would be able to fulfill the need. Not even DIY (unless you're able to model a tapped horn or similar alignment, but that's not for the faint of heart).

Strategically placed a pair of something like the JTR Captivator 2400 might be up to the task, but a single one of those would exceed your budget. You have a huge area to contend with, if you want to get something that will no longer be described as "inadequate" you'll need to increase the budget. Large space=large investment I'm afraid.
 
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panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Could always go with a bunch of in-wall subs and hope for the best if you can't get a decent sub and have WAF intact.

You could always go DIY again and make the subs look like a table. If that's possible of course.

With your room size (as others have said) it's just not going to work with smaller subs. You need something that can push tons of air while still sounding good. Multiple subs is really the only way to go.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Then again if your listening and concern is confined to the one area nearfield subs may do well enough for your purposes. I'd still go ported if possible, tho.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Just curious... how many folks in this thread have actually set up a system in a room in the 8000-10000 cu-ft size range?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
Then again if your listening and concern is confined to the one area nearfield subs may do well enough for your purposes. I'd still go ported if possible, tho.
I was thinking of this too. As long as the FR is good at the LP... Still agree that ported wins the day, and if he’s on concrete even more so.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Just curious... how many folks in this thread have actually set up a system in a room in the 8000-10000 cu-ft size range?
I'm right around 6000 cu-ft, conservatively. If anything it's more than that before it's less. It's no 10k but it's a pretty good sized space. Why do you ask?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I'm right around 6000 cu-ft, conservatively. If anything it's more than that before it's less. It's no 10k but it's a pretty good sized space. Why do you ask?
Because in my experience with rooms this size is that on AH folks tend to think you need more sub capability than you really do to "make the air shake". I agree with the ported sub strategy because the OP is targeting the system mostly for HT (thumps, crashes, and explosions), but I'm thinking a pair of Monolith 12" ported THX subs for $1600 would make any reasonable person nauseous at 20Hz. According to ShadyJ's measurements just one is putting out 106db@20Hz at reasonable distortion, and a pair is obviously good for some level more than that. They're a little bigger than I think the OP really wants, and the aesthetics aren't like the best of glossy SVS models, but ShadyJ's tests showed these things have remarkable capabilities for the price. And they're not that big.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Because in my experience with rooms this size is that on AH folks tend to think you need more sub capability than you really do to "make the air shake". I agree with the ported sub strategy because the OP is targeting the system mostly for HT (thumps, crashes, and explosions), but I'm thinking a pair of Monolith 12" ported THX subs for $1600 would make any reasonable person nauseous at 20Hz. According to ShadyJ's measurements just one is putting out 106db@20Hz at reasonable distortion, and a pair is obviously good for some level more than that. They're a little bigger than I think the OP really wants, and the aesthetics aren't like the best of glossy SVS models, but ShadyJ's tests showed these things have remarkable capabilities for the price. And they're not that big.
I have a pair of HSU VTF-3 MK5s, 15" ported subs for my space. They do the job nicely without straining. I haven't tried ported 12s but I have tried sealed 12s and they were woefully under the task. I really wouldn't want to go much smaller than what I have now. MAYBE a pair of PC2000 pros would be up to the task, but I don't have as much space as op. Maybe we could get @shadyJ to pop in here and weigh in on filling a 10,000 cu-ft room with bass?
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Because in my experience with rooms this size is that on AH folks tend to think you need more sub capability than you really do to "make the air shake". I agree with the ported sub strategy because the OP is targeting the system mostly for HT (thumps, crashes, and explosions), but I'm thinking a pair of Monolith 12" ported THX subs for $1600 would make any reasonable person nauseous at 20Hz. According to ShadyJ's measurements just one is putting out 106db@20Hz at reasonable distortion, and a pair is obviously good for some level more than that. They're a little bigger than I think the OP really wants, and the aesthetics aren't like the best of glossy SVS models, but ShadyJ's tests showed these things have remarkable capabilities for the price. And they're not that big.
The Monolith 12"s are pretty large. I had one next to my Hsu VTF-15h mk2, and it was nearly as large as the Hsu. It's one of the largest ported 12"s out there right now.
I have a pair of HSU VTF-3 MK5s, 15" ported subs for my space. They do the job nicely without straining. I haven't tried ported 12s but I have tried sealed 12s and they were woefully under the task. I really wouldn't want to go much smaller than what I have now. MAYBE a pair of PC2000 pros would be up to the task, but I don't have as much space as op. Maybe we could get @shadyJ to pop in here and weigh in on filling a 10,000 cu-ft room with bass?
The idea that you need to charge the entire space to get adequate SPL at the listening position is mistaken. We actually have an article in the pipeline that addresses this misguided idea. As long as the listener isn't too far from the subwoofers, they can get hit with decent SPL, no matter the room size.

As for the OP, it looks to me like the SB-3000s might be the best choice for him. Those are real humdingers for their size, and if the OP is looking at those, that means size is a pretty serious consideration. The SB-3000s are pretty killer above 40Hz. Not stupendous below 40Hz, but no sub in that size range could be.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
The Monolith 12"s are pretty large. I had one next to my Hsu VTF-15h mk2, and it was nearly as large as the Hsu. It's one of the largest ported 12"s out there right now.

The idea that you need to charge the entire space to get adequate SPL at the listening position is mistaken. We actually have an article in the pipeline that addresses this misguided idea. As long as the listener isn't too far from the subwoofers, they can get hit with decent SPL, no matter the room size.

As for the OP, it looks to me like the SB-3000s might be the best choice for him. Those are real humdingers for their size, and if the OP is looking at those, that means size is a pretty serious consideration. The SB-3000s are pretty killer above 40Hz. Not stupendous below 40Hz, but no sub in that size range could be.
Humdingers... lol.

Yeah, if sitting close enough I can see where pressurizing the ENTIRE space isn't necessary, but you said yourself the performance under 40 hz isn't the best and this is mostly for movies and shows. If size is the biggest sticking point then deep bass is the compromise. I'm like a lot of members here in that I like to shoot for optimal performance over aesthetics, but I know that's not everyone.

Looking forward to the upcoming article tho! Even I cringe sometimes when telling everyone to "go bigger!".
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I have a pair of HSU VTF-3 MK5s, 15" ported subs for my space. They do the job nicely without straining. I haven't tried ported 12s but I have tried sealed 12s and they were woefully under the task. I really wouldn't want to go much smaller than what I have now. MAYBE a pair of PC2000 pros would be up to the task, but I don't have as much space as op. Maybe we could get @shadyJ to pop in here and weigh in on filling a 10,000 cu-ft room with bass?
Small sealed 12” subs are different animals altogether. I have a single 2015 vintage SVS SB1000 in my desktop system in a large room, and it’s awesome for that application, but it’s only a viable HT solution in a small apartment or condo, or some other venue where volume levels must be limited. If my virtually orphaned Velodyne in my main system kicks the bucket I’d be seriously thinking about the Monoliths and getting a MIniDSP SHD with DIRAC to handle my DSP needs. $1600/pair for that sort of performance is outrageous. A bit ugly, but so is my ATI amp sitting out in the open.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
Small sealed 12” subs are different animals altogether. I have a single 2015 vintage SVS SB1000 in my desktop system in a large room, and it’s awesome for that application, but it’s only a viable HT solution in a small apartment or condo, or some other venue where volume levels must be limited. If my virtually orphaned Velodyne in my main system kicks the bucket I’d be seriously thinking about the Monoliths and getting a MIniDSP SHD with DIRAC to handle my DSP needs. $1600/pair for that sort of performance is outrageous. A bit ugly, but so is my ATI amp sitting out in the open.
My 4 12" subs serve my theater well, but they don't dig deep enough for me. They're quite ugly as they haven't been finished yet, but they sound great. Can't tell how ugly they are once the lights are out. :oops:
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Overlord
Small sealed 12” subs are different animals altogether. I have a single 2015 vintage SVS SB1000 in my desktop system in a large room, and it’s awesome for that application, but it’s only a viable HT solution in a small apartment or condo, or some other venue where volume levels must be limited. If my virtually orphaned Velodyne in my main system kicks the bucket I’d be seriously thinking about the Monoliths and getting a MIniDSP SHD with DIRAC to handle my DSP needs. $1600/pair for that sort of performance is outrageous. A bit ugly, but so is my ATI amp sitting out in the open.
Agreed. Those Monolith subs are over achievers and a great option, but like Shady said they're pretty big n ugly. That wouldn't bother me, but looks like op wants form factor over performance. He may be best off with the pair of humdingers he's looking at, but he'll be lacking a little in the lower octaves.
 

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