Discreet subwoofer options

[MrBoat]

Ok, so after grilling the forum with numerous questions, reading across the internet, and finally realizing that even my best pc speakers include a subwoofer (why I did not make this association with my home stereo is beyond me, other than I tend to look at my pc audio like that of portable offerings of the past) and I am beginning to understand how this can work. Also, all of the modern speakers I like, strongly suggest the addition of a sub, or two, at least. Fine. As luck would have it, I need to build a new entertainment center. If I posted a picture of what my TV, cable box and stereo amp are sitting on/in, it would go viral with memes and jokes in the same category with "The people of Walmart." Why don't I have a nicer one? Because I couldn't afford what I deemed adequate, did not have time to build one from scratch and I hate particle/fiber board. Speakers, fine. It's a good, dense material. But for anything even remotely structural, it sucks. Doesn't hold fasteners well and the list goes on.

Somehow, this passion (have always had it) for good music has caused me to recently acquire some extra, more modern hardware. Friends came out of the woodwork with hand-me-downs that are certainly much nicer than I would have ever treated myself to. In this regard, it's pretty apparent that Americans discard a lot of still good and useful things, just to stay current. That's good for people like me, or for those of us who are suddenly making quantum leaps from the old school to the new and would like to use the "baby steps" approach.

Now on to subwoofers. I'm going to do it. But I figure on trying some more discreet/semi-discreet options first and working backwards from there before I end up with large cubes permanently in my living room. I realize there is the subject of optimal placement etc. I have managed to overcome that to some level of satisfaction with my current floor speakers. So now after mulling it over for a bit, it occurs to me that at the very least, I could design an entertainment center where I could stow two subs within the unit, giving it an integral, nearly seamless look when they are not in use. Even if I had to put them on castors so that I could just wheel them away behind cabinet (or they become the doors) doors when the music day is done. Or maybe they would be enough just opening the doors some of the time anyway when not playing loud. Or move them around when I am feeling a bit more picky with the sound.

Has anyone done this? If so, what are some ideas, or how do many of you handle this that have more confined spaces? Does ideal placement always matter, or is just the presence of subs sometimes enough. Any cool 'Bat Cave' or '007' ideas out there? I am going to build some new speakers that may, or may not need subs. I am going to try them without first and see just how much extra low end (if any) they need first before committing to large subs but I would like to start planning ahead of time anyway.

 

[lovinthehd]

Putting two subs in a console/entertainment center doesn't sound like a good idea to me (and it would have to be very large to house any decent sized subs). I will build something to house all my electronics one of these days, maybe sometime this winter (no particular direction to point you at except to search the net for diy versions).

You might try and download RoomEQ Wizard and play with the room simulator (you don't need a measurment mic for that) for sub placement. If you seriously have no other spaces in the room for the subs except the console/stand up front then never mind, but keep in mind subs will more tell you where they will work best than the other way around. Also if you haven't heard about the sub crawl, look that up, too.

I'm of the opinion almost all speakers need subs, most "full range" speakers aren't, especially on a budget. Which speaker build did you settle on? You can use good quality plywood like baltic birch instead of MDF; I built all my subs and a pair of speakers with it, didn't want the mess or weight of mdf myself and gives you a staining option for a finish, will use it for the stand/center, too.

 

[MrBoat]

Putting two subs in a console/entertainment center doesn't sound like a good idea to me (and it would have to be very large to house any decent sized subs). I will build something to house all my electronics one of these days, maybe sometime this winter (no particular direction to point you at except to search the net for diy versions).

You might try and download RoomEQ Wizard and play with the room simulator (you don't need a measurment mic for that) for sub placement. If you seriously have no other spaces in the room for the subs except the console/stand up front then never mind, but keep in mind subs will more tell you where they will work best than the other way around. Also if you haven't heard about the sub crawl, look that up, too.

I'm of the opinion almost all speakers need subs, most "full range" speakers aren't, especially on a budget. Which speaker build did you settle on? You can use good quality plywood like baltic birch instead of MDF; I built all my subs and a pair of speakers with it, didn't want the mess or weight of mdf myself and gives you a staining option for a finish, will use it for the stand/center, too.

I settled on the Fusion Tempest, which may be enough without subs, or that's where I'm starting at. I like large drivers. I've tried bookshelf speakers and a smaller set of CV speakers that had 8" drivers and although they could get loud enough, they lacked the presence that I like that I got from my larger speakers. My listening area is about 2200 cu ft. Those small speakers may work well with surround systems, but for some reason they don't here. So far, the larger drivers sound good throughout the entire main area of the house without much change in volume level.

I'm not really constricting myself to using the subs from the entertainment center, just that I can stow them there to where they become part of it when not in serious use and away from grandkids when they are here. They may end up working from there with low volume listening, or I may get lucky in other words. Either way, I'm not too picky with the quality of the source when it's just background music. The entertainment cabinet is going to take up a certain amount of room anyway, just to fit the TV. The receivers and cable box are much narrower. I have bout 6' of room for a cabinet or shelf system.

 

[j_garcia]

You can't use CV as a comparison point for bookshelf speakers. They wouldn't have presence if they tried. My listening area is something like 15K ft^3 and I use bookshelf speakers.

Though most "full range" speakers are not, that does not mean they are not sufficient for music. I tend to prefer towers for music only as well, but I'd usually always have a sub in the system whether or not I use it for everything, except in a smaller room.

You might get lucky with the subs, but I highly doubt it.

 

[lovinthehd]

I settled on the Fusion Tempest, which may be enough without subs, or that's where I'm starting at. I like large drivers. I've tried bookshelf speakers and a smaller set of CV speakers that had 8" drivers and although they could get loud enough, they lacked the presence that I like that I got from my larger speakers. My listening area is about 2200 cu ft. Those small speakers may work well with surround systems, but for some reason they don't here. So far, the larger drivers sound good throughout the entire main area of the house without much change in volume level.

I'm not really constricting myself to using the subs from the entertainment center, just that I can stow them there to where they become part of it when not in serious use and away from grandkids when they are here. They may end up working from there with low volume listening, or I may get lucky in other words. Either way, I'm not too picky with the quality of the source when it's just background music. The entertainment cabinet is going to take up a certain amount of room anyway, just to fit the TV. The receivers and cable box are much narrower. I have bout 6' of room for a cabinet or shelf system.

With the Tempest personally I'd want a sub even for music but especially for movies (may depend on your tastes I suppose), but that's a design I'd like to try also. My main subs weigh enough where I don't want to move them once placed, even the ones built of ply (let alone the 120lb mdf one I have). Downfiring subs might be an idea in terms of kid proofing. Sounds like perhaps they'd work well enough for your purposes up front in any case.

 

[ski2xblack]

Discreet subs that are fairly grandkid-proof...and that will hang with Tempests (which roll off at ~40 hz)...here is a pic of a Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba that would check all the relevant boxes.

Here's a slightly different variation:

 

[MrBoat]

With the Tempest personally I'd want a sub even for music but especially for movies (may depend on your tastes I suppose), but that's a design I'd like to try also. My main subs weigh enough where I don't want to move them once placed, even the ones built of ply (let alone the 120lb mdf one I have). Downfiring subs might be an idea in terms of kid proofing. Sounds like perhaps they'd work well enough for your purposes up front in any case.

Down firing is a real possibility. For some reason, without any scientific logic to back it up, is what the 'feel' of this room is telling me to do, or to at least make it an option that can be reworked alternately after the fact. The friend who gave me the Denon, and who was going to sell me his Klipsch speakers said he would take the Tempests off my hands for what I will have in them if, or when I want to try something else.

 

[MrBoat]

Discreet subs that are fairly grandkid-proof...and that will hang with Tempests (which roll off at ~40 hz)...here is a pic of a Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba that would check all the relevant boxes.

Now we're talking. Here is a link I found to another who makes HSU based subs into end tables. http://hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_3/diy-11-sonotube-subwoofer-september-99.html

 

[MrBoat]

I should add that this is just a query because it seems to be a common issue with folks who have to abandon the idea of subwoofers due to space constraints, or that often mentioned "WAF." I don't have the WAF concerns anymore. But still, it seems this could stand some work for those who don't own 3500 sq ft homes with large dens or entertainment rooms or want audio only.

The JBL's I have go down to 35hz. If I could be at, or even above that, that would be great. As it is, I am typically EQ'ng some of that out on a lot of the stuff I am listening to and with bass boost off.

 

[ski2xblack]

Your JBL's roll off in the mid thirties. The Tempests roll off about 40 hz. Given the much wider dynamic range of the Tempests, that's not a heck of a lot of difference, particularly if you don't eq down the lows like you do with the JBLs. You'll know soon enough.

 

[MrBoat]

Your JBL's roll off in the mid thirties. The Tempests roll off about 40 hz. Given the much wider dynamic range of the Tempests, that's not a heck of a lot of difference, particularly if you don't eq down the lows like you do with the JBLs. You'll know soon enough.

That's what I am thinking. In the event that the bass is lacking, it shouldn't be by much to where I have to fill in a very wide margin with subs, or not huge subs anyway. I'm talking bass guitar, kick drums or the bottom end of say, Fred Wesley's trombone. Even with my past music tastes, the 3 bands on the typical 9 band EQ that dealt with the lower frequencies were set to flat, with more emphasis on the instrumental midrange on just about everything I listened to.

The other speakers I had before the JBL's had 15" woofers but were sealed cabinets. They also had an 8" and a 4" midrange driver and two tweeters and the crossovers were adjustable. I did not go very low with those either.