Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[smokey007]

thanks for the info jmprader. I'm going to call hsu to see when they well be out for shipping.

 

[craigsub]

There was an idea given on the Hsu forum by Dr. Hsu that a "Carpet Grabber" would solve the problem of the Turbo rattling against the subwoofer top - so, I stopped by Lowes, grabbed some, and it makes a huge difference. There is no rattling at all, and subjectively, it sounds MUCH better when trying to handle the deepest bass. This "Carpet Grabber" is pretty cheap - it would be nice not to have to run out to a store to buy somethng like this, but it is minor, as in inconvenience.

EDIT ...MY BAD, THE TURBO DOES COME WITH THE CARPET GRABBER. IT IS STUFF LIKE THIS THAT EXPLAINS WHY THE AUTHORITIES REALLY PREFER THAT I DON'T PLAY WITH GUNS ...

I also tweaked the location of each subwoofer ... and ran the curves at 1/6th octave resolution. I used the same scenes from War of the Worlds - mostly because it seems everyone knows about them ...

Here are the four scenes ...

Ultra handling the lightning storm:

VTF-3 HO handling the lightning storm:

Ultra during the Pods coming out of the ground:

VTF-3 HO during the Pods coming out of the ground:

The microphone was at the listening position, about 12 feet from the subs - and I checked the calibration again before taking the measurements. Can anyone else tell why I now think these two subs are a draw on War of the Worlds ?

I will, by the way, be running some music this weekend with the Ultra in 16 Hz mode - it sounded better to everyone here in that configuration. Please be patient while I try this stuff out - part of these "post as you go" shootouts is making sure each unit is delivering ALL the performance it has.

Off to find the scene where the Machine crashes into the building ...

 

[craigsub]

Here is the scene in which the machine is shot down, and falls into the building, at the end of the movie.

These past 5 graphs, by the way, are with the system playing at reference. This "pod gets shot down" scene is tame compared to the pods come out of the ground scene. It takes one powerful sub to handle that - for single 12 inchers to do this is quite the achievment from both companies.

And I promise to get pics up - my wife and daughter are at a school play. But no later than this weekend. Promise...

Pod Falls down ...

 

[jerrodshook]

I made the switch from AVS too. Nice to read here so far!

I second the notion on Tool!

 

[Eddie Horton]

In the first set of movie graphs, it looked like the Ultra had about 3dB more output on the sub 20Hz stuff. These latest, after tweaking positions, look like the 3HO has about 2dB more output on the sub 20Hz material. If the slight differences can be accounted for by nothing more than placement, then you are right, Craig. I'd go back and call the movie score a draw from a numbers perspective. Subjectively, however, you may have a preference.

 

[ssabripo]

wow....these graphs are almost identical!! great shizznik Craig...great Shizznick!!!

Anyone with some photoshop skills out there?? would be great to get an overlay of the two graphs.

Craig, how is the difference sujectively when relocating the HO?

 

[craigsub]

Sherv and Eddie - The VTF-3HO's increased output was partially due to the lack of rattling from the Turbo on the Main sub box - the Carpet Grabber really does a great job. It also keeps the Turbo from sliding around - this morning, I was thinking the Turbo was rather "clunky" - now it is quite a nice addition.

Anyway - I could turn up the volume a bit more with the lack of rattling.

The slight movements were to get a flatter response curve from each sub... Not an increase in SPL.

Subjectively, it is impossible, really, to tell a difference between them now on WOTW. The graphs were almost funny to see - as they really matched with the closeness in the subjective arena.

We have a long way to go - but this is no slam dunk between these two subs. Both are impressing me. I also fired up some old stand bys - Attack of the Clones, Return of the King ... etc ... NONE of them come close to the chaos caused by WOTW. If single, 12 inch subs can deliver this, I would LOVE to hear Bossobass's Quad 15 inchers ...

 

[Eddie Horton]

Anyway - I could turn up the volume a bit more with the lack of rattling.

Were they not level matched on the first set of graphs?

 

[craigsub]

Were they not level matched on the first set of graphs?

They were level matched for the listening portion ... but for max SPL (taken after the listening), they weren't. By its very nature, max SPL between two products won't be level matched - if that makes sense.

 

[initech]

the Carpet Grabber really does a great job. It also keeps the Turbo from sliding around - this morning, I was thinking the Turbo was rather "clunky" - now it is quite a nice addition.

for a sec there, I thought I might be reading an adult mag letter. What is an... uh... carpet grabber?

Craig is that dip in frequency response(above 50hz) due to the room or the scenes?

 

[craigsub]

for a sec there, I thought I might be reading an adult mag letter. What is an... uh... carpet grabber?

Craig is that dip in frequency response(above 50hz) due to the room or the scenes?

Those are the scenes - you should see how scenes look on a graph. PRETTY wild.

 

[S.Cane]

Hey Craig, long time no hear.

Man I'm realling enjoying this so far, as I'm in the market for new subs to replace my dual EP500's I just sold, along with the rest of my Axiom system.


Sutter

 

[craigsub]

Sutter ... You sold your system AGAIN ? I take it things are going well for you .. COOL.

I may have to toss this WOTW scene at the EP-500, and see what it can do ...

 

[ssabripo]

Sherv and Eddie - The VTF-3HO's increased output was partially due to the lack of rattling from the Turbo on the Main sub box - the Carpet Grabber really does a great job. It also keeps the Turbo from sliding around - this morning, I was thinking the Turbo was rather "clunky" - now it is quite a nice addition.

Anyway - I could turn up the volume a bit more with the lack of rattling.

The slight movements were to get a flatter response curve from each sub... Not an increase in SPL.

Subjectively, it is impossible, really, to tell a difference between them now on WOTW. The graphs were almost funny to see - as they really matched with the closeness in the subjective arena.

We have a long way to go - but this is no slam dunk between these two subs. Both are impressing me. I also fired up some old stand bys - Attack of the Clones, Return of the King ... etc ... NONE of them come close to the chaos caused by WOTW. If single, 12 inch subs can deliver this, I would LOVE to hear Bossobass's Quad 15 inchers ...

for a second I was thinking that the Turbo added some THD at those levels when you first mentioned it, but seems like the carpet muff...uhm, I mean, grabber ( ) fixed the rattle. I was thinking the vent length added IM somehow, but it was just rattling, so that's good.

I agree, sounds like both of these 12's are doing incredible.....as expected. By the way, let me know if you want me to zip you up a sample of Jeff Lorber's Flipside for your listening tests

 

[JonnyOzero3]

....snip...

Here are the four scenes ...

Ultra handling the lightning storm:

VTF-3 HO handling the lightning storm:

...snip...

Hmm, there is a big difference in the two lightning graphs just under 50Hz. Are my eyes deceiving me? I wonder why that is? I also noticed the Ultra uses 1% less CPU power - that's a decisive win for the Ultra in my book!

Edit - why did you switch to 1/6 oct? Was it annoying to look at in 1/24th or something? Just curious

PS: Hey craig! Your LAN is disconnected! :-O

 

[S.Cane]

Sutter ... You sold your system AGAIN ? I take it things are going well for you .. COOL.

I may have to toss this WOTW scene at the EP-500, and see what it can do ...

It wasn't really planned bud, it was just after spending several months listening and evaluating everything, I came to the conclusion that Axioms just really are not for me, based upon my tastes and things I like and dislike.

I'll be ordering Rockets tomorrow, if not later on tonight, either 760's or 850's, along with Bigfoot and the RSS300's and a pair of RS250's MKII's for my rear surrounds.

 

[JeffD2.]

Anyone with some photoshop skills out there?? would be great to get an overlay of the two graphs......

Okay, hold on. NOW the dog has to go pee. Shucks, I usually get paid for this!

 

[JonnyOzero3]

Sutter ... You sold your system AGAIN ? I take it things are going well for you .. COOL.

I may have to toss this WOTW scene at the EP-500, and see what it can do ...

I'd enjoy reading about the axiom in the mix.

 

[craigsub]

Hmm, there is a big difference in the two lightning graphs just under 50Hz. Are my eyes deceiving me? I wonder why that is? I also noticed the Ultra uses 1% less CPU power - that's a decisive win for the Ultra in my book!

Edit - why did you switch to 1/6 oct? Was it annoying to look at in 1/24th or something? Just curious

PS: Hey craig! Your LAN is disconnected! :-O

For in room stuff, 1/6th octave is enough resolution - especially for this high SPL graphing.

And the 50 Hz area is somewhat different - but that could easily be changed with a small movement of the microphone.

1% less CPU power ....

 

[ssabripo]

Okay, hold on. NOW the dog has to go pee. Shucks, I usually get paid for this!

come now, old man....I thought you only enjoyed Nascar and Hunting?! where the heck did you learn photoshop from?