Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[JonnyOzero3]

Isn't there a lot of energy all the way up to 100hz in these scenes as well? Any chance of expanding those graphs, or are they already "taken" and un-screwable with...?

Just curious

PS: Very interested to see how things go once you EQ as well.

Edit: it's very interesting that the difference in SPL by Freq varies by the graph. For example, at like 12.5Hz, the difference between the two candidates is ~5dB and then ~12dB. I wonder why it does that? Is this a graph that was run over the whole scene and recorded the loudest spl by freq? So I guess it is varying because of what other freq's the sub is trying to reproduce? Hmmm again. I need to read up on this stuff more.

 

[mike c]

hopefully our own moderators here have better troll detectors than over there.

please watch over this thread moderators.

 

[Eddie Horton]

Looks like the HSU only gives up about 3dB below 18Hz and makes up several after about 25Hz in that second graph. Interesting. Like others have said, they both do what they do very well. Can't wait to hear the next round of music reports with the subs in the low tune.

 

[---k---]

Well, I thought I would show up here to keep you fellas in line.

Craig, good stuff. It is obvious that you are wussing out and only declaring the SVS the winner of the second round, because all the name calling got to you.

Just kidding.

You know, havinng stared at your graphs for a few minutes, I was suprised that the HO didn't take round 2. It seemed to have a more output across the full spectrum. Only place it was lacking was down low, and that is all feel range. Interesting.

Everyone must keep in mind when looking at those graphs, that is program material and not a FR graph, so therefore it shouldn't be flat. It is dependant on what is on the DVD. Right?

Anyway, got a couple of question. Are you moving the subs around when taking those measurements so that they are in the exact same position? Or are you relying on the SMS EQ to even out the differances between slightly differnt positions? While were at it, can you give us a little more info on where you have the subs located and what mic you are using for the measurements?

Also, after having first hand expeance eq'ing a sub and taking lots of measurements myself, I am highly suspecious of in-room measurements. Things can be sooooo affected by moving just a few inches in either direction, especially when eq is involed. I know from my experance, with my old sub locations, I was able to get one pin point spot in my room to measure perfectly flat, but when I listened it just didn't sound right and my ears would hurt. Move my head forward a few inches and it was ugly with a big spike and a big null. The null caused me to calibrate really hot for the big spike.

Anyway, what I'm getting at, could you maybe take a few more measurements of the subs at differnt locations within the room. I'm just curious how much it is varying and how that could affect the choice, especially if the subs are located in differnt spots - they could vary differntly. But, based on your graphs, both subs appeared to be responding to the room the same, so probably a moot issue. But, would like to see it proven moot.

 

[ted_b]

Tonight, we switched between the two subs for War of the Worlds - specifically the lightning scene then the machines break through the ground scene.....
Both subwoofers were pretty potent - louder than I care to listen, with rare exceptions. That being said, they both would require multiple units to achieve that elusive "reference" level in our 4000 ^ 3 foot basement.

Craig,
Dumb question but....is the setup with single subs only? I know in your intro you mention a pair of each, and in the pix over at AVS there were two of each. But your wording above seems to assume single subs each, not dual. Thanks,
Ted

 

[craigsub]

Lots of great questions and excellent input.

The graphs as shown are of the two subwoofers sitting next to each other. What I will likely do this weekend is the same sequence, only switching pisitions of the subs, re-doing the tests for both the Blind listening and the measurements. To be fair, music selections should also be done after switching the subwoofer's positions. There is a reason these things take a few weeks - so many variables between room placement, different movies, music ... etc ...

You are seeing a lot of the effect of the room in the graphs. K- Yes, this is a dynamic graph of the DVD, not a FR curve.

The SVS "won" round two because it was a bit more authoritive when hitting the deepest bass stuff. Each lightning percussion had more impact. On the steady state rumbling from the machines - both subs just ... rumbled.

I also need to dampen the Turbo - It was rattling some during the peak output tests. We have a hard surface on hard surface with the turbo - and it needs a soft pad - I have some very thin, clear rubber "feet" .. and they will go on tomorrow.

And guys - Mr. Bott only closes threads when he gets a complaint. He probably did the right thing. It IS a bit different here - the mods will drop the "smack down" on negativity, rather than close the thread. AVS remains an excellent support forum.

Audioholics is better for research and reviews.

 

[---k---]

Craig,

Cool. Yes, I know what you mean about these things taking a while. Been there, done it. I've had my twins now for a couple months, and I'm still tweaking position and eq.

keep up the fun.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

That supports the saying.

Hsu: Handles above 25Hz better
SVS: Handles below 25hz better

SheepStar

I'd say 15Hz would be the line. Wow, that HO is a potent little bugger.

 

[kingtut]

Craig, what is on tomorrow's testing agenda?

 

[craigsub]

Craig, what is on tomorrow's testing agenda?

I am not sure - I have to take my sons to swim practice, and won't get in until about 8. Depending on the night, I may actually switch the position of each sub - and run the Steely Dan again, along with the WOTW stuff.

For the Steely Dan, this time the 16 Hz setting will be used.

If not tomorrow, this will definitely be done this weekend.

I may also get the chance to pick up some new material tomorrow - a new Fagen disc, plus some Tool. Both were suggested - as bass "reference" discs.

That is like telling Hugh Hefner about a new nude beach ... well - in 1955, that is ..

 

[Matt34]

Good reporting so far Craig. It makes it so much easier(to read and understand for us slow folk ) when it's just question and answer between OP and not all the off-topic drivel.

 

[Ajax]

And guys - Mr. Bott only closes threads when he gets a complaint. He probably did the right thing. It IS a bit different here - the mods will drop the "smack down" on negativity, rather than close the thread. AVS remains an excellent support forum.

Nonetheless, I'm disappointed in Mr. Bott. Two persons appeared to have the agenda of closing the thread, and, sadly, Mr. Bott played right into their hands. I know it's more difficult and time consuming to ferret out the troublemakers and exorcise them, than it is to simply close the thread. But, punishing the few miscreants alone is much fairer to the considerably larger number of those who did not cause trouble and were simply interested in the results of the comparison.

Ah well. Looking forward to the rest of the findings, Craig.

 

[jmprader]

...I also need to dampen the Turbo - It was rattling some during the peak output tests. We have a hard surface on hard surface with the turbo...

And guys - Mr. Bott only closes threads when he gets a complaint. He probably did the right thing...

Peter just recc'd carpet grip on the Hsu Forum, so evidently some others have reported some chattering...didn't your turbo come with a thin gripping material to place between the turbo and the sub top...heck, my turbos didn't rattle on WOTW, so I must have been too gentle with the gain control. In all honesty, Flight of the Phoenix made me hit the mute button and reset levels.

Mr. Bott absolutely did the right thing. You'd think after a few years it would get old...like me...of course , (for the second time) what am I going to do with all this popcorn????

Goodnight gentlemen! Looking forward to further installments.

 

[oliverlim]

That supports the saying.

Hsu: Handles above 25Hz better
SVS: Handles below 25hz better

SheepStar

I always felt that SVS has lesser punch feel in the mid and upper bass. thats why I went for a different brand sub just to get that punch. This seems to support that theory.

Craig - Are you able to show the 50-80hz region in your graph as well? Thanks!

Oliver

 

[Berty52]

Craig, do you think that the PC-U can have similar result as the PB-U?

 

[craigsub]

Berty52 - The PCU and PBU should be close to identical.

I will expand the graphs to 100 Hz tonight - we will lose a small amount of detail, but it will assist in seeing the mid bass. Good idea.

And I am off to Lowes today to get some carpet grip for the Turbo - that is the recommended solution from Dr. Hsu.

 

[jhan1000]

Nonetheless, I'm disappointed in Mr. Bott. Two persons appeared to have the agenda of closing the thread, and, sadly, Mr. Bott played right into their hands. I know it's more difficult and time consuming to ferret out the troublemakers and exorcise them, than it is to simply close the thread. But, punishing the few miscreants alone is much fairer to the considerably larger number of those who did not cause trouble and were simply interested in the results of the comparison.

Ah well. Looking forward to the rest of the findings, Craig.

I'm sure many of us saw this coming from a mile away. Talk about beating a dead horse... some people can't let leave well enough alone, and just accept Craig's responses.

Anyway, there is some great stuff going on here on this thread. It's a breath of fresh air.

 

[ssabripo]

Sherv - I will try to get some pics posted over the next couple of days. My wife won't let me near her digital camera, somethng about me not knowing how to run it. Therefore, I have to cajole her ...

.....I'm scurred!!!

 

[ssabripo]

I'd say: buy the latest & greatest - the HO

A HSU owner for well over 11 years.

 

[JHixson]

Hi Craig,

Are you going to compare the HO with a port plugged to the Turbo? With the turbo the HO still seems to look better at the higher freqs and to really drop fast below tuning. I ordered mine without the turbo and then added the turbo. Have a very large room thought maybe I would be better without the turbo but if I didn't get it would always wonder. Did you get to watch the second movie last night?