Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[Sheep]

Thats funny,

I always thought subwoofer drivers popped when they were being overdriven.

SheepStar

 

[jakeman]

Dear Jeff,



The drivers that we received a few weeks ago were not built exactly to the specs that we wanted. We have only shipped out about a dozen VTF-3 HO's, knowing that each of these owners would receive a revised driver at some point moving forward. Sound quality with the VTF-3 HO driver is very good, but there are still some issues with the driver such as popping noises at higher SPL levels. So the driver is being refined, and the subwoofer should perform much better at higher SPL levels when all is said and done, I think! Please stay tuned.

Sincerely,

Peter, Can you provide some more details as to what changes were made to the new batch of drivers? Great looking service by the way for all those early adopters. .

 

[craigsub]

Peter, Can you provide some more details as to what changes were made to the new batch of drivers? Great looking service by the way for all those early adopters. .

It would be great if we could get that info ... anyone interested in a blind test between the original driver and the actual, built to spec driver ?

 

[Sheep]

It would be great if we could get that info ... anyone interested in a blind test between the original driver and the actual, built to spec driver ?

Only if you fly me there.

SheepStar

 

[jakeman]

It would be great if we could get that info ... anyone interested in a blind test between the original driver and the actual, built to spec driver ?

I'm making an educated guess, but from reading the Adire specs it looked like performance especially linearity varied quite a bit based on the length of the voice coil. Maybe they went back to run some tests based on different lengths of coil.

 

[jmprader]

I'm making an educated guess, but from reading the Adire specs it looked like performance especially linearity varied quite a bit based on the length of the voice coil. Maybe they went back to run some tests based on different lengths of coil.

Remember the Hubbell telescope? Mirror specs were muffed with metric vs. English system faux pas (fancy for F*** ups)...some of the worlds most brilliant engineers or the guys on the factory floor made an oops or two...doesn't surprise me that a VC length spec might get muffed somehow by an OEM jobber.

 

[nick53]

I was under the impression it was as simple as redesigning the spider to allow for maxium extension, which was responsible for the "pop".

 

[jakeman]

Both plausible reasons JM and Nick. I guess we wait and see what they came up with.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Only if you fly me there.

SheepStar

Craig,

He's serious.

 

[---k---]

Craig,
While you're buying plan tickets, buy me one too. But, could I suggest you ship the subs to Sherv's place and that we move the test down there.

 

[saintb]

no probs with my HO yet

My HO was in the first batch of 6. No probs, yet (fingers crossed). I haven't pushed my HO hard though... unless you count that one night with the Incredibles and a bottomless glass of Jameson. More. More. More. Louder. Louder. Louder.

I will gladly except a new better driver. Thanks, Peter, Dr., et all.

 

[bobgpsr]

...I always thought subwoofer drivers popped when they were being overdriven...

I heard from a member in a different forum about a tinsel lead "slap" problem with his DIY sub that uses a very high excursion driver (which has non-woven in spider tinsel leads) when doing extreme bass scenes. I wonder if this could be heard as a popping sound also?

 

[Steve42]

Here are the results for the subs mentioned ...

The Sunfire ...
The Earthquake ...
The VTF-3HO ...

Let's compare them ...

Sunfire - 110 dB for $1800

Hsu - 116 dB for $900

Earthquake - 120 dB for $1600

I encourage people to take the time and to visit the full reviews all three subs tested by JJ, and look at the graphs, look at these numbers, and see what you learn.

For now, I can assure you the numbers as posted above are a VERY good indicator of each unit's capabilities.

Wow, just got through reading much of this thread, hats off to you Craig for doing this for everyones benefit.

Regarding the SPL comparisons of the Sunfire Hsu, and Earthquake, I had no idea the Hsu VTF3 -HO had that high of output. Impressive indeed. I once owned the VTF3-mk2, and it was nice, but I now own the MKV-15 and the VTF3-mk2 really did not come very close to the clean output of the MKV-15 in direct comparisons after being EQ'd in my room. Sounds like the new VTF3-HO must be quite an improvement from JJ's tests anyway.

One thing in looking at the prices you stated, you may not know but the MKV-15 can be easily had for around $1400 delivered from authorized dealers around the US. You just have to call Earthquake for installers in your area. I know of one in CA and one in NY that can sell it for the $1400. I got the tip from reading a thread over on AVS. Unfortunately this means buying from a custom installer who does not carry stock and thus there is no in home trial. Once you buy it, there's no return like the ID companies. But still that narrows the ultimate price difference a little between the MKV-15 at about $1400 delivered, and the VTF3-HO at about $950, once you factor in shipping.

From what I see you do a lot of subwoofer listening, maybe someday you can throw in a MKV-15 into the mix, love to hear your thoughts compared to the VTF3-HO and the Ultra.

Thanks again for sharing all your results and impressions, what you do is VERY cool.

Steve

 

[craigsub]

Steve - Thanks for the kind words. I had seen the $1400 price given on AVS, but I like to err on the side of caution, and used the $1600 in case there was a bit of "hype" behind the $1400 figure.

The Earthquake retails for $2700 (I think), so even $1600 is an excellent value, especially in light of the praise it is getting from owners.

Who knows, perhaps someone from Earthquake will be crazy enough to ask for a review ...

 

[Steve42]

Craig,

Probably a good thing to "error on the side of caution". I'm sure there may be custom installers out there that won't give such a good deal. I know I bought mine for $1400 as well as a couple others who used different dealers. If anyone is ever interested, I guess the best way is to call Earthquake direct and find out what the best price one can get with their local dealers. Some dealers will ship out of state too.

As far as Earthquake wanting a review that would be very cool if they did. Not sure if they would be interested though. You don't see a lot of people talking about them on the internet. Every once in a while you see someone post who is a dealer on the boards, but that's about it. From what I understand they do a lot of their sales in the car audio business, but are doing more and more in the HT field.

Keep up the good work.

Steve

 

[jmprader]

... anyone interested in a blind test between the original driver and the actual, built to spec driver ?

Is this a trick question? Of course anyone following this thread for info-tainment wants to see the comparison. What we've seen so far points to a solid performer in your tests vs the Ultra. Having info from abx sessions and any other further testing/observation you're willing to undertake for the greater good would surely be useful for those considering the HO.

Since inquiring minds want to know, don't stop halfway. You may as well engage in another weightlifting opportunity, lugging the fraternal twins back out to the yard to capture the GP FR data as well ...as long as the neighbors chainsaws, lawnmowers and weed whackers aren't contributing.

...didn't Sheep volunteer to come out and help?

 

[craigsub]

jmprader ... It would only be fair to do the test again once the drivers arrive. The VTF-3 HO's we have here are pretty close to the Ultra in overall performance. Both have some strengths and weaknesses vs. the other, but if someone asked me to pick an outright winner, I couldn't.

In our neighborhood, I doubt the neighbors will ever completely cooperate - but realistically, it does not effect the real numbers in the graph. It is just prettier without the ambient noise.

Hopefully, it won't take long for the new drivers ...

 

[eebuckeye]

HO vs Plus?

Looking at the numbers posted between the HO vs. Plus vs. Ultra and they are all very close. Is it safe to say the Plus and HO are very close in performance also? Ths Plus and Ultra seem to have very similar performance also (probably due to the same size amp for the better driver in the Ultra)?

The Plus is around the same price as the HO and I'm debating between them. I like the look of the Plus and may get it if the performance (especially low end) is very close.

Thank you Craigsub for the work!

 

[craigsub]

eebuckeye ... I am pretty certain that the "plus" and the "Ultra" are going to be extremely close. Many thought the older "plus" driver was bested by the Ultra ... but the new driver has likely put those differences aside.

So ... unless the new driver from Hsu makes a difference in SQ and possibly output, I would suggest that someone who has narrowed down his choice to between the PB12-Plus anf the VTF-3 HO should also look at other areas of th ownership experience ... appearance, which company he may like better ... etc ...

Performance wise, they are too close to call.

 

[eebuckeye]

Thanks for the info.. I guess I was initially hoping the HO would perform much better than an equivalent Plus which retails for the same price (pre-order special).

I initially was happy with the HO performing so close to the Ultra - it was news to me that the Plus is so close to the Ultra with $300 savings.