Cherry Audio Class D Amplifier Review with Measurements!

[3db]

So.....upgrading to the pricey capacitors and transformers ($7,500 Stereo Amp) will reduce the THD+N from about 0.006% down to 0.001%?

A stellar deal @ twice the price!! (that's sarcasm if anyone thinks I'm being serious)

 

[buckchester]

It's probably as expensive as it is at least partially due to them being a small company, lacking economies of scale. All in all it looks like a high quality amp. But overpriced for what you get, for sure.

What I don't get it how are subwoofer companies able to put such powerful amps in their subs for such reasonable prices, but stand alone amps that have much less power are even more expensive than an entire quality sub with a more powerful amp. I'm sure there are reasons, I'm just unaware of them. But, it seems puzzling. Good article material for Audioholics!

 

[lovinthehd]

It's probably as expensive as it is at least partially due to them being a small company, lacking economies of scale. All in all it looks like a high quality amp. But overpriced for what you get, for sure.

What I don't get it how are subwoofer companies able to put such powerful amps in their subs for such reasonable prices, but stand alone amps that have much less power are even more expensive than an entire quality sub with a more powerful amp. I'm sure there are reasons, I'm just unaware of them. But, it seems puzzling. Good article material for Audioholics!

Do you have some specific examples in this regard? Sub amps are are just mono, so that helps a bit in general

 

[PENG]

To add the HD's, sub amps also don't have (and usually don't) to have super low THD+N figures mainly because of the way masking works (if I interpreted his article incorrectly on this, I hope @shadyJ would chime in and correct me).

I highly recommend those interested in subwoofers and amps read the following articles, at least the conclusions:

The Audibility of Distortion At Bass Frequencies | Audioholics
Intermodulation Distortion: Can it Predict Good Bass Performance in Subwoofers? | Audioholics

The point is, it could mean less R&D as well as implementation costs associated with power amps mainly aimed for subwoofers.

 

[shadyJ]

To add the HD's, sub amps also don't have (and usually don't) to have super low THD+N figures mainly because of the way masking works (if I interpreted his article incorrectly on this, I hope @shadyJ would chime in and correct me).

I highly recommend those interested in subwoofers and amps read the following articles, at least the conclusions:

The Audibility of Distortion At Bass Frequencies | Audioholics
Intermodulation Distortion: Can it Predict Good Bass Performance in Subwoofers? | Audioholics

The point is, it could mean less R&D as well as implementation costs associated with power amps mainly aimed for subwoofers.

Yes, bass masks distortion better than mids and high frequencies, so I don't think you need a super-pristine amp for subs. Furthermore, many subwoofer drivers have an intrinsic low-pass filter since they just can't play upper frequencies that well, and that would help to mask distortion from an amp.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

...how are subwoofer companies able to put such powerful amps in their subs for such reasonable prices...

It depends on the amps used. We all know that not all amps and "subwoofer amps" are created equal.

For example, @flyboylr45 is using the ATI 900W/4-ohm amps for his 4 subwoofers in his RBH SVTRS towers.

I am also using my ATI amp to power my RBH subwoofers.

Before you even ask, oh hells yeah our subwoofer bass is all Chocolatey, sweet and smooth. And and lightning fast and all that good stuff. Believe it.

 

[JStewart]

It's probably as expensive as it is at least partially due to them being a small company, lacking economies of scale.

Perhaps but not necessarily. See:
March Audio
Nord Acoustics
Apollon Audio

Here’s a guy that will assemble Hypex amps at a very low cost:
Buckeye Amps

 

[lovinthehd]

Also partially their's is in-house, they don't buy modules from Hypex or Purifi.....

 

[Matthew J Poes]

It's probably as expensive as it is at least partially due to them being a small company, lacking economies of scale. All in all it looks like a high quality amp. But overpriced for what you get, for sure.

What I don't get it how are subwoofer companies able to put such powerful amps in their subs for such reasonable prices, but stand alone amps that have much less power are even more expensive than an entire quality sub with a more powerful amp. I'm sure there are reasons, I'm just unaware of them. But, it seems puzzling. Good article material for Audioholics!

two reasons. The amps in subwoofers aren’t even close to as good as this. They aren’t usually even a high fidelity amp. They don’t need to have wide bandwidth feedback. They only need enough bandwidth to maintain moderately low distortion up to a few hundred hz. Second, they aren’t hand made in America. This amp is completely made in the USA. Even the boards. Very few of the other american brands can make similar claims.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Perhaps but not necessarily. See:
March Audio
Nord Acoustics
Apollon Audio

Here’s a guy that will assemble Hypex amps at a very low cost:
Buckeye Amps

This isn’t the same thing. Bruno makes his modules in Malaysia I believe. Not Europe or the USA. That brings the cost down considerably. These guys then buy the modules and stick them in a case. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s a lot cheaper way of making amps.

Cherry amplifiers are made in the USA. Even the boards. Everything but a few of the parts are from the USA. That costs a lot more money right now. So this amp is necessarily a lot more expensive. When people say they want to support American manufacturing, this is what that means. It costs more for a reason.

Tommy could better answer what it would really take to continue making amps the way he does here and get the price down. I am sure economy of scale is a huge piece of it. But I also imagine it would require significant scaling of the US manufacturing he needs for each price of this. Possibly moving towards more vertical integration.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Also partially their's is in-house, they don't buy modules from Hypex or Purifi.....

Everything is in house design wise. Tommy designed the amplifier himself. It isn’t based in any sense on any other amplifier design or parts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Everything is in house design wise. Tommy designed the amplifier himself. It isn’t based in any sense on any other amplifier design or parts.

Yep, I know and know Tommy O'Brien in a few audio groups....

 

[Matthew J Poes]

$6K Cherry class D amp THD+N is 0.0056% (AH).

$2K ATI 522NC class D amp THD+N is 0.001% (ASR).

Not that we can hear any of these THD+N, but I wonder how these compare to the amp sections of the Denon and Yamaha AVR?

The ATI amp uses Asian made modules. I don’t think it’s $2k anymore is it? I thought I was told the prices went up substantially. In any case, the big price is coming from the American made piece.

if you spend a bit extra (I know it’s a big bit) the distortion actually reduces quite a bit, down to .002% I believe. Something like that. Even in this power supply setup it can get below .002% THD+N by 5 watts or so. My measurments were slightly worse than Tommy’s and it very well could have been me or my measurement setup. They were all close enough I didn’t sweat it too much. I had hoped to measure it more but when I tried to test a cleaner source (1khz oscillator) into my notch filter, I knocked a cable loose and then reinserted it without thinking.Killing the amp.

this was the first amplifier I had measured on this setup and I was still learning its limits and how to best use it. Future amplifier measurements will be a bit better. At these low noise and distortion levels, everything is finicky. Even the orientation of cables can change things slightly. How I arrange the boxes or what USB strip I use.

James point, which I had said to him when contemplating this amps value proposition, is that this amp puts out a lot more power. Remember that the ASR measurements of the ATI amp showed that into 8 ohms it did like 150 watts before the knee and sharp rise. This cherry amp is around 275 watts before the knee and the rise is nowhere near as sharp. The .1% THD point is 325 watts into 8 ohms. It’s over 500 watts into 4 ohms. And it’s power supply limited. That expensive King power supply upgrade raises those limits substantially. There isn’t a lot of competition for this power level and performance at a lower price. Especially when you consider that it’s hand made here.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Yep, I know and know Tommy O'Brien in a few audio groups....

Ok. I just want to make sure it’s clear to others that this is a Tommy design. Not Bruno, not TI, not Icepower. I think it’s quite an accomplishment that the only other Class D amp I am aware of that performers better are from Bruno, and are the best amps on the market. Tommy’s are really close while offering more power. It’s an accomplishment. There is so little original engineering in this world anymore.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

So.....upgrading to the pricey capacitors and transformers ($7,500 Stereo Amp) will reduce the THD+N from about 0.006% down to 0.001%?

Id love to know who can hear the difference between THD+N of .006 vs .001%, especially given that it was all power supply Spurs at -90dB or more. It bothered me which is why I mentioned it, but it only looks as bad as it does because the noise floor is so low otherwise. Most amps would hide those spurs.

I know it’s expensive. I rated it’s value accordingly. But I also know Tommy isn’t getting rich off these. It’s the cost of full American manufacturing.

 

[PENG]

For Americans, there are obviously good reasons to buy such an amp that is made in America but "sound quality" is unlikely to be one of the reasons. So everyone can choose what fits their purposes, as long they are informed, and now they are, after Matthew's reviewed and his follow up posts. For me, I'll buy Bruno's, given the information currently available.

 

[Movie2099]

two reasons. The amps in subwoofers aren’t even close to as good as this. They aren’t usually even a high fidelity amp. They don’t need to have wide bandwidth feedback. They only need enough bandwidth to maintain moderately low distortion up to a few hundred hz. Second, they aren’t hand made in America. This amp is completely made in the USA. Even the boards. Very few of the other american brands can make similar claims.

Thank you for writing this. Was getting pretty ridiculous the hate these amps were getting solely based on their price. Being all made in-house and the power that is under the hood, the price is actually very reasonable.

 

[3db]

Made in America or not, 6K is a sh?t ton of money to put on an amp that requires an upgrade on its power supply to drop the noise floor. Thats just not right anyway you want to look at it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

At these low noise and distortion levels, everything is finicky. Even the orientation of cables can change things slightly. How I arrange the boxes or what USB strip I use.

This right here is what bothers me the most about all measurements from all sites.

Many of us here have done REW measurements of our speakers and subs and know how EXTREMELY finicky it is.

We have seen a few times already how the same components measured “poorly” on ASR can overnight become SOTA with a few tweaks. It seems if people worked hard enough on tweaking, many components could easily become SOTA overnight.

Many of us have pointed out many times that these measurements don’t show the actual sound quality of these components. It only shows how “SOTA” these components measure.

But if measurements are so finicky and can be easily changed from POOR to SOTA anytime, what’s the real “value” in these measurements especially since we cannot hear any difference?

In addition to being inaudible, there is absolutely no correlation between (tweaked) SOTA numbers and RELIABILITY either, is there?

If there is a correlation, man, it seems AVRs might be more reliable than separates, which is the opposite of what audiophiles have been preaching since forever.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The ATI amp uses Asian made modules.

This is a very good point regarding cost.

I bet McIntosh, Mark Levinson, Krell and Bryston amps also use Asian-made parts.

But I doubt many consumers really care at the end of the day if they can get them for $7,500 or $6,000.