Bought new Onkyo TX-NR6050, hope I won't regret

M

Mike Up

Audioholic
Thanks. I'm only 9' away and I constantly looking at the display info on the receiver when I change volume settings because the volume display doesn't show up on every input with my setup.
The Unit's display volume is about the same size but unlike Onkyo, the volume display disappears when you're done changing volume.

Also the Denon has On-Screen display for functions of the receiver while using Network Apps and Internet radio. The Onkyo did not have On-Screen menus where you had to use the Unit's front display for info.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Check the incoming signal on the Denon display. When playing Dolby Atmos tracks from a disc, it should display incoming signal as Atmos/Dolby TrueHD with your 7.1 setup. When streaming Dolby Atmos tracks from any device EXCEPT the Apple TV 4K and some XBOX consoles, it should display Atmos/DD+. If the incoming signal is displayed as DD EX, it is a 5.1 signal with EX matrix flag and does not contain Atmos metadata. Only Dolby TrueHD 7.1 or Dolby Digital Plus 7.1 tracks can contain Atmos metadata. If a receiver does not support Atmos, those tracks will display as DTHD 7.1 or DD+ 7.1 and the metadata is not processed. Any incoming signal displaying as DD+ 5.1 or DD EX does not contain Atmos metadata at all and the receiver is upmixing it. Check the source device settings. Also, while different services support Dolby Atmos titles, that doesn't mean Dolby Atmos output is supported by the device used to play it.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Thanks. I'm only 9' away and I constantly looking at the display info on the receiver when I change volume settings because the volume display doesn't show up on every input with my setup.
Which input sources do not display volume levels when adjusted?
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
Check the incoming signal on the Denon display. When playing Dolby Atmos tracks from a disc, it should display incoming signal as Atmos/Dolby TrueHD with your 7.1 setup. When streaming Dolby Atmos tracks from any device EXCEPT the Apple TV 4K and some XBOX consoles, it should display Atmos/DD+. If the incoming signal is displayed as DD EX, it is a 5.1 signal with EX matrix flag and does not contain Atmos metadata. Only 7.1 Dolby TrueHD or Dolby Digital Plus can contain Atmos metadata. If a receiver does not support Atmos, those tracks will display as DTHD 7.1 or DD+ 7.1 and the metadata is not processed. Any incoming signal displaying as DD+ 5.1 or DD EX does not contain Atmos metadata at all and the receiver is upmixing it. Check the source device settings. Also, while different services support Dolby Atmos titles, that doesn't mean Dolby Atmos output is supported by the device used to play it.
In Atmos sound mode, the input is display in setup menu info as just Atmos - DD+ 48Khz -7dB Offset, nothing else.

Going to the Dolby Audio - Dolby Digital Plus sound mode, the input is displayed as Dolby Audio - DD+ 48Khz 3/3/.1 -7db Offset Flag = MATRIX. Go to the more limited display from just the info button, the speaker graphic shows the normal 5 speakers along with a center "SB" speaker highlighted for the input.

But for Dolby Audio - DD+ (straight) sound mode, the output is only 5.1 even with Flag set. To get 7.1, you need to go to Dolby Audio - DD+ +Neural: X or back to Atmos - DD+
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
When Atmos metadata is present and processed, you will never see channel information from the input signal. Some receivers display 7.1 tracks as 3/4/.1 and some as 7.1 when an Atmos track is played and metadata cannot be processed for one reason or another because the core of the track is 7.1(3/4/.1). The channel information will not be present if the Atmos metadata can be processed by the receiver. If the input signal being streamed does not display as Atmos/DD+, then it is not a DD+ 7.1 signal with Atmos metadata. Things get messier when streaming devices have Dolby Atmos selected as the output format. This stamps all outgoing signals as Atmos even if they are not and different devices will need to be set to either bitstream or passthrough for the proper output of all signals so that the receiver can process the signals accordingly. Again, ALL streamed Atmos tracks have DD+ 7.1 at their core. Don't confuse the outgoing channels based on the selected sound mode with the actual incoming signal from the source.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
When Atmos metadata is present and processed, you will never see channel information from the input signal. Some receivers display 7.1 tracks as 3/4/.1 and some as 7.1 when an Atmos track is played and metadata cannot be processed for one reason or another because the core of the track is 7.1(3/4/.1). The channel information will not be present if the Atmos metadata can be processed by the receiver. If the input signal being streamed does not display as Atmos/DD+, then it is not a DD+ 7.1 signal with Atmos metadata. Things get messier when streaming devices have Dolby Atmos selected as the output format. This stamps all outgoing signals as Atmos even if they are not and different devices will need to be set to either bitstream or passthrough for the proper output of all signals so that the receiver can process the signals accordingly. Again, ALL streamed Atmos tracks have DD+ 7.1 at their core. Don't confuse the outgoing channels based on the selected sound mode with the actual incoming signal from the source.
Denon Data Table_0001.jpg

As you can under Dolby Digital Plus Sound mode, you use it to listen to an Atmos signal.
*4 This can be selected when the Dolby Atmos signal contains the Dolby Digital Plus signal.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Are you really going to pull a page from a manual from another model and not from the S960H to try and prove a point? You are not getting a signal with Atmos metadata if it has any channel information displaying under INPUT SIGNAL. You are getting a Dolby Digital EX signal which is why it is possible to apply DTS Neural:X to it. Dolby does not allow a Dolby Atmos signal to be processed with DTS Neural:X. Any streamed track that is supposed to be Atmos will have a SIGNAL display of Atmos/DD+ unless it is coming from a device using Dolby MAT(Apple TV 4K and XBOX SeriesX/S) in which case it will simply display Dolby Atmos. Discs with Atmos tracks will have a SIGNAL display of Atmos/TrueHD. Below the SIGNAL and AUDYSSEY information, if Audyssey is used, is the INPUT SIGNAL display showing channels present in the input signal. There will be NO channel information in the INPUT SIGNAL display if Atmos metadata is in play and it will simply display DOLBY ATMOS. The ACTIVE SPEAKERS display to the right of it will show all of the active speakers in the configuration. Older receivers like the 2312 would still display DD+ 7.1 if receiving a bitstreamed Dolby Atmos track or display Dolby TrueHD 7.1 if bitstreaming a disc that had an Atmos track when Atmos metadata cannot be processed.

While the Onkyo's Dolby signal behavior might be a deal breaker for those with a 7.1 configuration, the Denon would be a deal breaker for me with my 5.1 configuration as Dolby has locked out cross upmixing of ALL Dolby 2.0 signals. I would not be able to apply DTS Virtual:X to any Dolby 2.0 signal be it DD, DD+, or DTHD and would need to convert those signals to PCM before I could up mix them with DTS Virtual:X. That is some bulls#%t.
 
B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
Are you really going to pull a page from a manual from another model and not from the S960H to try and prove a point? You are not getting a signal with Atmos metadata if it has any channel information displaying under INPUT SIGNAL. You are getting a Dolby Digital EX signal which is why it is possible to apply DTS Neural:X to it. Dolby does not allow a Dolby Atmos signal to be processed with DTS Neural:X. Any streamed track that is supposed to be Atmos will have a SIGNAL display of Atmos/DD+ unless it is coming from a device using Dolby MAT(Apple TV 4K and XBOX SeriesX/S) in which case it will simply display Dolby Atmos. Discs with Atmos tracks will have a SIGNAL display of Atmos/TrueHD. Below the SIGNAL and AUDYSSEY information, if Audyssey is used, is the INPUT SIGNAL display showing channels present in the input signal. There will be NO channel information in the INPUT SIGNAL display if Atmos metadata is in play and it will simply display DOLBY ATMOS. The ACTIVE SPEAKERS display to the right of it will show all of the active speakers in the configuration. Older receivers like the 2312 would still display DD+ 7.1 if receiving a bitstreamed Dolby Atmos track or display Dolby TrueHD 7.1 if bitstreaming a disc that had an Atmos track when Atmos metadata cannot be processed.

While the Onkyo's Dolby signal behavior might be a deal breaker for those with a 7.1 configuration, the Denon would be a deal breaker for me with my 5.1 configuration as Dolby has locked out cross upmixing of ALL Dolby 2.0 signals. I would not be able to apply DTS Virtual:X to any Dolby 2.0 signal be it DD, DD+, or DTHD and would need to convert those signals to PCM before I could up mix them with DTS Virtual:X. That is some bulls#%t.
Absolutely! I rely on those options.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
Are you really going to pull a page from a manual from another model and not from the S960H to try and prove a point?
Here's the link to Denon's site to get Data Table for the AVR-S960H. I posted as informational content not to prove a point. You act like you have 2 different personalities and now you're acting like a D*ck again!

You are not getting a signal with Atmos metadata if it has any channel information displaying under INPUT SIGNAL. You are getting a Dolby Digital EX signal which is why it is possible to apply DTS Neural:X to it. Dolby does not allow a Dolby Atmos signal to be processed with DTS Neural:X
Nope, wrong. It's an Atmos signal delivered through the DD+ format. It has all the information for Atmos and DD+ 5.1 to be backward compatible.

.
Any streamed track that is supposed to be Atmos will have a SIGNAL display of Atmos/DD+ unless it is coming from a device using Dolby MAT(Apple TV 4K and XBOX SeriesX/S) in which case it will simply display Dolby Atmos.
Yes, it does when ATMOS sound mode is selected, but if the DD+ signal is extracted from it by the DD+ sound mode, it's now a DD+ 5.1 soundtrack. Read the data table and footnote I provided.

if Audyssey is used, is the INPUT SIGNAL display showing channels present in the input signal.
I don't use that crap. I like my music to sound good. ;)

There will be NO channel information in the INPUT SIGNAL display if Atmos metadata is in play and it will simply display DOLBY ATMOS. The ACTIVE SPEAKERS display to the right of it will show all of the active speakers in the configuration. Older receivers like the 2312 would still display DD+ 7.1 if receiving a bitstreamed Dolby Atmos track or display Dolby TrueHD 7.1 if bitstreaming a disc that had an Atmos track when Atmos metadata cannot be processed.
Yes, it does display ATMOS with all the graphical speakers highlighted when using the "ATMOS" sound mode. When using the DD+ sound mode, it displays channel info as well for the extracted DD+.

While the Onkyo's Dolby signal behavior might be a deal breaker for those with a 7.1 configuration, the Denon would be a deal breaker for me with my 5.1 configuration as Dolby has locked out cross upmixing of ALL Dolby 2.0 signals. I would not be able to apply DTS Virtual:X to any Dolby 2.0 signal be it DD, DD+, or DTHD and would need to convert those signals to PCM before I could up mix them with DTS Virtual:X. That is some bulls#%t.
No how, no way. It most certainly does cross upmixing. I've been using it for the last day with different DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 tracks with Dolby Surround and DD+ sound tracks with Neural: X. It's states this right in the data table I provided!

I thought we were sharing a common interest about HiFi and HT but you've been getting an attitude for absolutely no reason at all. The first time I let it go since you apologized, but this is ridiculous.

I'm done now.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
BTW, I returned my Onkyo TX-NR6050 to Costco and decided to keep the Denon AVR-S960H.

I'm very happy with it, especially for $600. Although $600 is only a $50 discount on a 2 year old model! it's original $650 MSRP was decent before Denon hiked up their price by $200 to $850 for the Pandemic and left it high when things are normal again!!:mad:

Then Denon replace it with the AVR-S970H new model, that is hiked up in price even more when the pandemic is over! That's why I went to Onkyo, because of price gouging by Denon. It pisses me off!!:mad:

I wish the Onkyo TX-NR6050 would had worked but I have a lot of Music 5.1 concert DVDs where the flipped channels won't sound good. I like to keep my music in discrete channels.
 
Last edited:
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I thought they lifted the cross upmixing restriction. Se or no? Prettt sure my Marantz 6012 will do it. Not sure what FW version it’s on though…
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Here's the link to Denon's site to get Data Table for the AVR-S960H. I posted as informational content not to prove a point. You act like you have 2 different personalities and now you're acting like a D*ck again!



Nope, wrong. It's an Atmos signal delivered through the DD+ format. It has all the information for Atmos and DD+ 5.1 to be backward compatible.

.

Yes, it does when ATMOS sound mode is selected, but if the DD+ signal is extracted from it by the DD+ sound mode, it's now a DD+ 5.1 soundtrack. Read the data table and footnote I provided.



I don't use that crap. I like my music to sound good. ;)



Yes, it does display ATMOS with all the graphical speakers highlighted when using the "ATMOS" sound mode. When using the DD+ sound mode, it displays channel info as well for the extracted DD+.



No how, no way. It most certainly does cross upmixing. I've been using it for the last day with different DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 tracks with Dolby Surround and DD+ sound tracks with Neural: X. It's states this right in the data table I provided!

I thought we were sharing a common interest about HiFi and HT but you've been getting an attitude for absolutely no reason at all. The first time I let it go since you apologized, but this is ridiculous.

I'm done now.
Read it more careully . It will not cross up mix dolby 2.0 signals using DTS VIRTUAL:X. It will upmix Dolby 5.1 signals with DTS NEURAL:X. Look at that chart more carefully. You cannot apply DTS Neural:X to a Dolby Atmos signal.

Rather than do any real research, you’ve decided you know more than anybody else about the matter after having two Dolby Atmos capable receivers for about a week.

Stop going on about the sound mode and pay more attention to the incoming signal as it will dictate the applicable sound modes. Study those charts carefully and learn a thing or two. If not, shut up and stop spreading misinformation. There, I went from being a d#%k to being an a$$hole. Stubborn posters will do that to me.

Dolby is not lifting restrictions on anybody. They are actually getting worse about letting DTS do up mixing of certain signals. Pick a sound mode in the chart and look at the corresponding input signals. Pick a signal and follow it down the chart. When a black circle appears in the box at which the sound mode and input signal meet, then that sound mode is the default mode. If a white circle is in the box, the sound mode can be applied to that input signal. No circle, no dice.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I'm an a$$hole, but not heartless. I couldn't quite grasp the signals you were receiving and processing in the receiver. If you were streaming from the Roku, that would explain many things. They have the worst audio output settings of any device and they differ from one Roku to another. You might share the settings.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I'm an a$$hole, but not heartless. I couldn't quite grasp the signals you were receiving and processing in the receiver. If you were streaming from the Roku, that would explain many things. They have the worst audio output settings of any device and they differ from one Roku to another. You might share the settings.
Hey a$$hole!
I’m gonna test my 6012 soon and see if I’m crazy or not. I tend to set n forget so my tiny brain cell just can’t remember that shitt.
As usual, I do appreciate your input. Even if it’s pretty fukkin colorful.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
The 6012 may not be as restricted regarding sound modes. Not sure if any firmware updates changed things. Dolby is very picky from brand to brand with Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha receivers all doing things just a little bit differently here and there. Atmos is great, but I think the Dolby Surround up mixer has issues as it tries to up mix channel based tracks that worked better with Pro Logic. There are more and more posts on different sites complaining about its performance.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I’ve seen other sites complaining about DSU and it’s various shortcomings. IME it’s overall very good, but I did like plii better but mainly because of its adjustability I think. DTSnx has been more a mixed bag for me with it’s approach that seems to translate in short, to more aggressive overhead use. I’ve also seen one Atmos thread that has devolved into shouting from the rooftops about why using an Auro layout an upmixing everything to auromatic is the way to go. I think that’s mostly due to joe n tell and techno douche. Dumm
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I tend to get worked up myself as some may have noticed.;) I need to remember to direct any frustrations toward those at fault, Dolby mostly, and not at posters looking for any kind of help. It's no easy thing going into 4K HDR Atmos/DTS:X systems. The variables among TVs, Streamers, disc players, receivers and streaming service apps is ridiculous.

DTS Neural:X/Virtual:X is not great for everything and I never use it on music. But, what it does for two channel signals surpasses Dolby Surround on Movie and TV 2.0 tracks. It's downright amazing with DTS HDMA 2.0 tracks on some movie discs. Dolby Surround works very well with two channel music combined with Center Spread or, in Onkyos case, the VOCAL feature.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
It’s super confusing, and when everyone has their own proprietary languages(that’s a stink eye to you yamaha) it’s almost impossible for someone who is more casual about it. Even myself who’s been doing this game since the 80’s, has to get out my decoder ring. Good examples you mentioned were streamers. What a nightmare! And TV’s? Clusterfukk!!!
I’m still rocking a very nice panny plasma, but am hoping for a good Black Friday sale to grab an 85 incher. The options seem endless and it’s a bit disheartening to trudge through all the numbers and designations. My focus is audio, but also want a great picture. We do game, but films come first. That put me locked in oled but I worry about IR, so then there’s LED tech, but I hate 120hz soap opera look, and then there’s black levels. Thankfully newer sets have local dimming and blacks have greatly improved. So her I sit… spinning in a circle.
Also. I wish the center spread had the width option like the old days too. Off/just isn’t good enough. I’ve found that on is better for me.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I worried about image retention and burn in but the LG C1 has been great so far. Movies look great but 4K HDR games @120Hz is dazzling. The level of detail, vibrant colors and the complete lack of screen tearing using VRR are amazing. Microsoft’s Dolby Enabled app, not so much.
 

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