Behringer A500 Amplifier: Objective Test Results

[mtrycrafts]

Dear Sirs,

I bought a A500 one month ago and used it discontinuously.
I am using it full-range.
I find the amp hard in the bass and harsh in the mids (with voices this effect is quite evident and quite unpleasant).
I wonder if the break-in will smooth the harshness/hardness away.
I would like to hear opinion from people with a lot of hours of use with the amp.
Thank you very much indeed.
Kind regards,
beppe
Italy

Amps don't have a sound of their own, nor does this amp from the test performed on it in the original review at The Audio Critic, on line subscription.

You have other issues to consider, isolate and treat, not the A500, unless you are clipping it for some reason?

 

[rolyasm]

I am starting my research on pro amps, basically comparing price, watts, fan noise, THD, SNR, etc. Looking at QSC I see they have two different ratings. One is rated at FTC, the other is at EIA. The EIA rating is better and shows a bridged 4 ohm load, while the FTC only shows a Bridged 8 ohm load. What is the difference and what are most of the other amps using?
Also, I have been told to avoid amps with an input sensitivity greater 1.2. I see the Crown XLS have a 1.25, the Behringer EP 2500 is 1.23. I know people have used these for their speakers, but should I avoid them and go with the lower sensitivity?
Roly

 

[rolyasm]

I am starting my research on pro amps, basically comparing price, watts, fan noise, THD, SNR, etc. Looking at QSC I see they have two different ratings. One is rated at FTC, the other is at EIA. The EIA rating is better and shows a bridged 4 ohm load, while the FTC only shows a Bridged 8 ohm load. What is the difference and what are most of the other amps using?
Also, I have been told to avoid amps with an input sensitivity greater 1.2. I see the Crown XLS have a 1.25, the Behringer EP 2500 is 1.23. I know people have used these for their speakers, but should I avoid them and go with the lower sensitivity?
Roly

Edit: I see one site has the 380 wpc Crown 602D as being $50.00 less than their 402D model which has 300 wpc. Any idea why, or is this just a bangin deal?

 

[beppe61]

Amps don't have a sound of their own, nor does this amp from the test performed on it in the original review at The Audio Critic, on line subscription.
You have other issues to consider, isolate and treat, not the A500, unless you are clipping it for some reason?

Dear Sir,

thank you so much for your extremely kind and valuable reply.
Currently I am driving it with a Bryston .4B line preamp with the volume controls on the A500 at max using RCA inputs.
The main problem is with voices, thin and a little harsh.
Nevertheless I have notice an improvement from the moment of purchase.
What is your opinion about break-in ?
Can the sound of a brand new amp vary with use ?
Do you own a A500 ? in this case what are you using to drive it?

Thank you very much again and kind regards,

beppe

P.S. also the soundstage reproduction is quite flat with no depth.
I use to evaluate this parameter of sound reproduction with a Sheffield Lab cd test that I find very useful.
To be honest I have to say that only good audio systems can reproduce this CD in a really enjoyable way.

 

[highfihoney]

Currently I am driving it with a Bryston .4B line preamp with the volume controls on the A500 at max using RCA inputs.
The main problem is with voices, thin and a little harsh.


P.S. also the soundstage reproduction is quite flat with no depth.

The way you described the sound from your system leads me to believe that the problem lie's in using the bryston preamp,its very hard to get a 2 channel system to sound right without some way to adjust the tonality of the system either with tone control's or equlization unless the room is set up & treated for the system,every time ive tried preamps without tone controls i have hated the sound no matter what brand preamp or how much it costs.

I would try either a different preamp with tone controls on it or an equlizer then tailor the sound to taste,the easiest route would be to try a full function preamp with tone controls & preferably with a loudness contour control as oposed to running an eq,its easy to do more harm than good with an eq but if you do decide to try an eq keep it simple & look for an eq with simple features & simple controls.

All the problems you described can be corrected easily with tone control.

You also asked about break in time,ive found that there is no such thing,either you like the way it sounds or you dont but no amount of use will change the sound from any amplifier,first impressions(in your system) are important when trying to put together a system & no amount of break in time,cable changes or tweaking will give you the desired sound.

 

[highfihoney]

Has anybody tried the Blue Ice amp. Has rca inputs and a quiet fan.


http://www.123dj.com/amps/technicalhifi/x5000.html

600 WATTS AT 4 OHMS
350 WATTS ST 8 OHMS

$350 not a bad deal. Some guys at the AVSforum site swear by them.

The blue ice amp's might very well be great amp's but i find the lack of any usefull information being published on these amps to be a bit odd,ive seen these amp's around on different site's & not once has anybody posted any spec's other than wattage.

 

[beppe61]

1) The way you described the sound from your system leads me to believe that the problem lie's in using the bryston preamp,its very hard to get a 2 channel system to sound right without some way to adjust the tonality of the system either with tone control's or equlization unless the room is set up & treated for the system,every time ive tried preamps without tone controls i have hated the sound no matter what brand preamp or how much it costs.
2) I would try either a different preamp with tone controls on it or an equlizer then tailor the sound to taste,the easiest route would be to try a full function preamp with tone controls & preferably with a loudness contour control as oposed to running an eq,its easy to do more harm than good with an eq but if you do decide to try an eq keep it simple & look for an eq with simple features & simple controls.
All the problems you described can be corrected easily with tone control.
3) You also asked about break in time,ive found that there is no such thing,either you like the way it sounds or you dont but no amount of use will change the sound from any amplifier,first impressions (in your system) are important when trying to put together a system & no amount of break in time,cable changes or tweaking will give you the desired sound.

Dear Sir,

thank you sincerely for your very kind and valuable reply.
You have a wonderful set up indeed ! Simply gorgeous. Congratulations !
1) Actually the Bryston preamp could be the culprit.
Is everything but a classic in the audio world. Not a lot of fans out there.
I bought it used on the basis of its the low price and the brand name.
I will try to listen the A500 with a better preamp.
A friend of mine has a nice Conrad Johnson PV10. Its sound is very good in the midrange.
2) I am somewhat scared by tone controls. I would prefer to succeed without using them.
I usually listen to audio label that do not use equalization (Sheffield, Chesky, Reference Recording, Telarc, etc.).
3) Thank you for your valuable opinion. I read that brand new electrolytic caps need some sort of activation before they can work effectively.
May be is only a legend.

Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[BostonMark]

If Behringer is so wonderful...

WHY is there only ONE consumer review on this website that gives Behringer 2 stars out of five???

If so many of you really believe that Behringer is awesome, why on earth don't you write a consumer review on this website?????

Usually in looking for product reviews to buy, the first place I naturally turn is to audioholics own consumer reviews, and what do I find about this "wonderful" amp? ONE 2 star review, thats IT! Why must we search the threads to find out more? Why don't some of you who have purchased this actually take the time to write a comprehensive review so that it could easily be found for someone seeking opinions on the Behringer A500?

 

[majorloser]

WHY is there only ONE consumer review on this website that gives Behringer 2 stars out of five???

If so many of you really believe that Behringer is awesome, why on earth don't you write a consumer review on this website?????

Usually in looking for product reviews to buy, the first place I naturally turn is to audioholics own consumer reviews, and what do I find about this "wonderful" amp? ONE 2 star review, thats IT! Why must we search the threads to find out more? Why don't some of you who have purchased this actually take the time to write a comprehensive review so that it could easily be found for someone seeking opinions on the Behringer A500?

As soon as I get them in and have a little time to play with them, I'll let you know. It'll be the same system only difference will be the amplification (B&K 7270 vs. Behringer A500's vs. old Denon receiver)

My only complaint that I can see, without having them yet, is the lack of 12V trigger power. I got lazy since everthing is run by the Pronto Pro

 

[vlad335]

Major,

Please give us your initial impressions when you get the amps. I am just about ready to do this but i am now uncertain about what amps to buy. The behringers are definately the most cost effective but I am concerned that a low price isn't always the best.

 

[zildjian]

As soon as I get them in and have a little time to play with them, I'll let you know. It'll be the same system only difference will be the amplification (B&K 7270 vs. Behringer A500's vs. old Denon receiver)

Hey Major,
I don't know if you've posted on this before, but what was your motivation to replace your B&K 7270? Just want more power? I understand that completely if that's the case as I guess I'm a collector power amps since I'm always looking for nice big amps despite not needing anymore power.... The B&K's are good amps, and your 7270 is a 7 channel at 200wpc right? Solid amp (no transistor pun intended ). Where did it lack for you? Just courious as I've never had a B&K in any of my setups, but if I saw that amp out in the world at a good price, I'd probably want it even if just for a 2nd system amp for the basement or even a killer bedroom system.

Also, I'll echo the call to let us know about how you like your behringers after you get them settled in. I'll admit I've been skeptical of their quality since their price point is so low, but I'd like to hear one or two and see what the buzz is about, or rather what the fuss is about. That's a better word than "buzz" when talking about amps I guess... Until then, like to hear what you think of your set.
Brad

 

[mtrycrafts]

WHY is there only ONE consumer review on this website that gives Behringer 2 stars out of five???
?

Didn't read that review. Why was it down rated? Maybe it is just based on a unreliable subjective opinion? Most likely biased like most reviews are since they were not under bias controlled conditions.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Dear Sir,

You are way too formal.

thank you so much for your extremely kind and valuable reply.
Currently I am driving it with a Bryston .4B line preamp with the volume controls on the A500 at max using RCA inputs.

Maybe you should try it with that volume control half way and up the Bryston volume?

The main problem is with voices, thin and a little harsh.

Why is it that many jump to the conclusion that it must be the amp/preamp, CD player and not the speakers, room acoustics or the recording?
That is where you get the sound quality from. Bryston is a top notch company and knows how to design transparent components.


What is your opinion about break-in ?

Audio voodoo, bs, urban legend, myth.

Can the sound of a brand new amp vary with use ?

Clipping, using beyond design limits.

P.S. also the soundstage reproduction is quite flat with no depth.
I use to evaluate this parameter of sound reproduction with a Sheffield Lab cd test that I find very useful.
To be honest I have to say that only good audio systems can reproduce this CD in a really enjoyable way.

I seriously doubt that. But, speakers, room acoustics has a lot to do with reproduction. Actually, that is what you hear, unless you have a faulty or broken, out of spec component.
Certainly not the Bryson preamp.

 

[mtrycrafts]

1) Actually the Bryston preamp could be the culprit.

Yes, even Brystons could break, from time to time, just like Toyotas

I will try to listen the A500 with a better preamp.

Waste of time.
And, if you have plenty of it, do yourself a favor and do it under level matched DBT conditions so your hidden biases will not color your perception as it surely will otherwise. Then, you have no idea what its real color is.


2) I am somewhat scared by tone controls. I would prefer to succeed without using them.

Not possible. Tone controls, EQ, don't bite, but to some it is an audio phobia. They should get over it.


I usually listen to audio label that do not use equalization (Sheffield, Chesky, Reference Recording, Telarc, etc.).

That may be, but, are you also listening to the recording in their recording studio? If not, your perceptions are grossly biased away from a very useful and needed tool. Minimalism is so euphonic in audio

.
3) Thank you for your valuable opinion. I read that brand new electrolytic caps need some sort of activation before they can work effectively.
So, that is one cap, with a possible small variation in value only. Hardly a concern.

May be is only a legend.

Yes, indeed. And the legend starter, couldn't; hear it under DBT conditions. Doesn't inspire confidence in such legends, does it.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Major,

but I am concerned that a low price isn't always the best.

You are right. The other day I picked up an inexpensive Teflon coated pan and it warped on the first try. It was as if it was aluminum foil
I returned it and got a thicker pan; works like a charm

 

[rolyasm]

Denon Vs. Behringer EP2500

Okay, okay. Now before you all jump down my throat and tell me all the things I did wrong for this comparison, please realize that I DON'T review equipment for a living, I probably DON'T have the proper equipment and/or time to do this test the right way, and I DON'T offer this as advice or arguement. It is what it is.
Scenario: My Behringer looking at me from the confines of it's sub setup with 4 -15" drivers. It wanted to try driving my Polks and since I am considering some pro amps for my HT, why not. Out came the Behringer to its spot next to my Denon 3801. Did I mention this amp is heavy? Just so I can seem kind of scientific, here are the specs for my POLK RT800i: Freq. 42Hz-25kHz
-3dB, 8 ohm, 90dB efficiency. Recommended Amplification 20-250 watts.
I set up my mains only and listened first with my receiver. Using an SPL I set all my listening volumes to 90dB, which is louder than I normally listen to. I have a test CD I use that has pipe organs, heavy rap, Dido, Damien Rice, Black Eyed Peas, Ava Maria, and even though I really don't listen to her much, Brittany Spear's "Toxic" really has a good range.
I listened to about 1 minute or so of each song from the beginning, always keeping an eye on the SPL. I have to say I really like my Polk's. I would say they are rich, not bright, but not exeptionally detailed as I have recently noticed after hearing some THX systems like M&K, or even RBH T1. Anyway, on to the Behringer.
Wow, a complete difference. It was night and day. hehe, just kidding. I listened to the same songs, same SPL and was surprised there wasn't a huge difference. But there was a difference. To me the Behringer was more laid back, wasn't as harsh, or is it called sibilance? With the Denon, there were a few times when I thought I heard the speakers struggling. The bass got a little sloppier perhaps. It sounded like distortion. With the Behringer, I didn't notice that. The harsher songs were still a little harsh, but the songs that really shone to me were the more acoustical songs, like Damien Rice's "Blower's Daugher" and Dido's song.
Now it got more interesting. I invited my wife down. She knows less about this than I do. I know, scary. Anyway, I had the Behringer hooked up so I had her listen to it first. The lights were covered so she didn't know which one was playing. Same process. Listened to a few selected songs, then switched to the Denon while she went in the other room. I had some ear covers on by this time and just focused on the tracks and SPL. After both auditions, I asked her opinion. I could tell she wanted to please me and choose the amp, but she got it backwards. She apologized and said she liked the first scenario the best, which was the Behringer, but she thought was the Denon. Her thoughts were very similar to mine. She actually said she liked the bass better with the Denon on one song because it sounded "looser" or "fuller" and not as tight. She described it as the speakers sounding like they were going to shake out of the cabinet. She really liked the same songs for the same reasons and thought Brittany did a great job. With the Denon she said she heard more background noise. She said esses were essier and the harsh songs seemed harsher. I noticed on the Denon she actually covered her ears once or twice with the same SPL. After my disapproving look reminded her this was for science, she quickly removed her fingers.
Tomorrow we repeat the test. I will be very curious to see if we get the same results. Of course I know which is which. That is why I had her help. I will laugh if she determines the exact oposite in the morning, but I'll let you know.
Roly

 

[mulester7]

Amps don't have a sound of their own

.....this is wrong, and said by someone who doesn't have a clue past reading....how very sad and totally misleading....there is less difference in amps than pre-amps, but amps sound different too, or there would be less than a handful of amp companies.....

 

[mulester7]

I listened to the same songs, same SPL and was surprised there wasn't a huge difference. But there was a difference.

.....good report, Rolyasm....of course there's a difference in amps.....

 

[mulester7]

Dear Sirs,

I bought a A500 one month ago and used it discontinuously.
I am using it full-range.
I find the amp hard in the bass and harsh in the mids (with voices this effect is quite evident and quite unpleasant).
I wonder if the break-in will smooth the harshness/hardness away.
I would like to hear opinion from people with a lot of hours of use with the amp.

Thank you very much indeed.
Kind regards,

beppe
Italy

.....I couldn't help but especially notice this post, and am curious about comments to come from those who ACTUALLY OWN one of the Behringer A500's, and give a hands-on/ears-on report....like HiFiHoney said, a first impression will probably not change through time....

 

[beppe61]

1) Actually the Bryston preamp could be the culprit.

Yes, even Brystons could break, from time to time, just like Toyotas
I will try to listen the A500 with a better preamp.
Waste of time.
And, if you have plenty of it, do yourself a favor and do it under level matched DBT conditions so your hidden biases will not color your perception as it surely will otherwise. Then, you have no idea what its real color is.
2) I am somewhat scared by tone controls. I would prefer to succeed without using them.
Not possible. Tone controls, EQ, don't bite, but to some it is an audio phobia. They should get over it.
I usually listen to audio label that do not use equalization (Sheffield, Chesky, Reference Recording, Telarc, etc.).
That may be, but, are you also listening to the recording in their recording studio? If not, your perceptions are grossly biased away from a very useful and needed tool. Minimalism is so euphonic in audio.
3) Thank you for your valuable opinion. I read that brand new electrolytic caps need some sort of activation before they can work effectively.
So, that is one cap, with a possible small variation in value only. Hardly a concern.
May be is only a legend.
Yes, indeed. And the legend starter, couldn't; hear it under DBT conditions. Doesn't inspire confidence in such legends, does it.

Thank you sincerely for your kind and valuable advice.
Following it I will check my speakers and their position in the room.
I understand that a good system in a "wrong" room will sound "wrong".
I am pleased to know that I can keep my Bryston preamp, as it is not that bad in general.
My current digital source is a Pioneer DV-717 dvd player (to be replaced ?).
Could a better source smooth that slightly rasping midrange (distortion?) I am hearing now?
I am quite sure that with a vinyl source the problems would be fewer.
But I have decided to live with digital anyway (sometimes is a little pain).

Thank you very much again and kind regards.

beppe
Italy