Behringer A500 Amplifier: Objective Test Results

[JoeE SP9]

.....Mtry, the mumbo-jumbo trickery pulled off by these lemmings you read about and worship is what keeps you at receiver level, congratulations.....99% of those who buy an amp or a pre-amp or even a new receiver, hook it up and immediately look for bring-it-home sweet spots....I'm proud to say nothing you will ever say will change that....people like you talk a few others into eventually trying a level-matching comparison, and thank goodness they quickly see the worthlessness thereof....you claim biased perception....I claim cheap carnival sideshow tricks that accomplish nothing....even audiophiles who really are audiophiles don't lend themselves to this crap....why do you keep wearing us out with it?.....

A year or so ago he tried to tell me I was listening to my music on my sytem too loud! I just don't read most of his posts because they are not relevant to real world conditions.

 

[beppe61]

Hi beppe, please dont think i was slamming your bryston preamp because that was not the case,bryston makes quality gear,what i was questioning about the bryston is why you feel that tone controls are a bad thing & what negative aspect do you think will be added to your listening experience from the use of tone control ?
Tone controls do not adversly effect a systems sound in any way they simply do the job that they were designed for & in most cases can immensly help the overall sound,if you have harsh highs the solution is as easy as turning a knob,no hideous room treatments,no equipment changes or expensive upgrades,no tube rolling,no tweeking & most importantly no cable upgrades.
Weather you know it or not most preamps effect the sound more than any other peice of gear in the system,the one & only way to get a 100% neutral presentation is to run your source directly from the amplifier or with a passive preamp(fancy word for external volume control),all preamps color the sound weather they are tone control preamps or non tone control preamps.
I see you heading down all the wrong roads chasing a perfection that will never be found,your source is most likely not the culprit nor is the amplifier, amplification is important but not nearly as important as preamplification ,other than speakers there is no more important peice in a system than the preamp.
Im not trying to bust your balls but this is something that i feel strongly about because ive tried the things that you are thinking about like upgrading my preamp to a more expensive model or a model reccomended by a friend as being the best,ive also been through countless & extremely expensive changes in my source components over the years & all have made very little impact in the overall listening pleasure i get from my system.
Ive ran non tone control preamps ranging in price & (supposed quality) from krell,mcintosh,pass labs,conrad johnson,audio research,cary audio & quite a few others,all of which were big bucks & highly touted as the next best thing to being at a live concert but not a single non tone control preamp made my music sound completely satisfing.
Please dont base your system upon the boasts of audiophiles claiming that the shortest signal path is the best route because it isnt,taking the audiophile approach to music & system building will only lead to listening to a VERY SHORT LIST of audiophile approved recordings.
When building a system the end result(overall sound) is what is important not how you got there

Thank you very much for your kind and valuable advice.
I understand that the preamp issue should be investigated some more.
I will keep the same source and power amp in the first step.
I have tried the speakers with another amp I have, a Samson Servo 260.
Less grain in the midrange but the bass is even weaker (actually reading the specs is less powerful than the A500).

Kind regards,

beppe

 

[beppe61]

.....
Beppe, you said in an earlier post you got the Behringer A500 a month ago....how long have you had the modified JBL speakers?....and, if you had the modified JBL speakers before the Behringer A500, what were you pushing the modified JBL's with before the Behringer?....finally, if all the "if's" are in play so far, how did the modified JBL's sound with whatever you were pushing them with before the Behringer?.....

Thank you for your kind and helpful advice.
I have the speakers since 6 months.
I tried them with a Samson Servo 260 that I also own: less grain in the mids and weaker bass than the A500.
Actually the weak bass of the Samson (I like the rest of the spectrum) is what made me buy the A500, in the hope to get a more authoritative and solid sound.
The technician modified in the same way the two speakers (so they are identical).
Maybe an overlap of the two drivers in the mids is what is causing the harshness/hardness on voice.
The woofer work without crossover and the tweeter is crossed with a 6dB/octave slope.
To end, I have tried a pair of Dynaudio MSP 110 today and the midrange grasp is quite reduced.
Still voices are not as natural/realistic as with my friend's system (California tube DAC+ C&J PV10+ Audible Illusions S120+ Audio Physics speakers).
As it should be for a system about 8 times the value of my current system.

Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[mulester7]

The woofer work without crossover and the tweeter is crossed with a 6dB/octave slope.

.....Beppe, you don't ever want a speaker element to be totally unbridled....the negative harsh probably somewhat raspy sound quality you are hearing is probably the woofer not being cut at all on the top....the tweeter being cut on the bottom with only 6 db's of rolloff is not good and not nearly enough rolloff, but I believe the main culprit offending your ears is probably the woofer trying to produce spl's at it's very top with no cut....I tried a similar situation one time....I would replace the crossover with a quality two-way crossover that cuts both elements at around 1400-1600 cycles with at least 12 db's per octave of rolloff for the woofer, and at least 24 db's of rolloff for the tweeter.....

To end, I have tried a pair of Dynaudio MSP 110 today and the midrange grasp is quite reduced.

.....so now you see the Behringer A500 wasn't getting a fair shake against the modified JBL speakers that had incorrect crossovers?.....

 

[beppe61]

.....Beppe, you don't ever want a speaker element to be totally unbridled....the negative harsh probably somewhat raspy sound quality you are hearing is probably the woofer not being cut at all on the top....the tweeter being cut on the bottom with only 6 db's of rolloff is not good and not nearly enough rolloff, but I believe the main culprit offending your ears is probably the woofer trying to produce spl's at it's very top with no cut....I tried a similar situation one time....I would replace the crossover with a quality two-way crossover that cuts both elements at around 1400-1600 cycles with at least 12 db's per octave of rolloff for the woofer, and at least 24 db's of rolloff for the tweeter..........

so now you see the Behringer A500 wasn't getting a fair shake against the modified JBL speakers that had incorrect crossovers?.....

Thank you Sir for your very valuable advice.
I understand that the crossover should be completely redesigned.
Not alwasys minimalist is a good thing.
I agree that JBL are distorting the midrange.
Nevertheless I have to tell you that the my previous amp was a Samson Servo 260 that I used with the Dynaudio MSP 110s.
Now the A500 is working with the Dynaudio as well.
I bought the A500 because unsatisfied by the bass with the Samson.
The A500 is a little better in this regard, but unfortunately is not enough for the power hungry MSP110.
Another amp that failed is the old Adcom GFA545 that I also have.
I have been recommended the more powerful GFA555 (about 300W/4 ohm) but as I am entered in the pro world I wold like to try the Crown XLS 402 (450W/4 ohm) or the Behringer EP1500 (I have been told that Crown is better than Behringer).
What I am missing now is the powerful but controlled bass response I heard with my friend's Audible Illusions S120 (very expensive amp) driving my Dynaudio, that need a lot of current to wake up and deliver.

Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[beppe61]

Moreover I wonder if some kind of upgrading could be performed on the A500.
In particular I would like to increase the filter caps.
Now there are 4 3300uF/100V in total.
May be with 4 10000uF/100V could I get some more power in the lower frequencies ?
Would this be a silly move ?
I like the sensation of bass shacking the walls.

Kind regards,

beppe

 

[mulester7]

I have been recommended the more powerful GFA555 (about 300W/4 ohm) but as I am entered in the pro world I would like to try the Crown XLS 402 (450W/4 ohm) or the Behringer EP1500 (I have been told that Crown is better than Behringer).
What I am missing now is the powerful but controlled bass response I heard with my friend's Audible Illusions S120 (very expensive amp) driving my Dynaudio, that need a lot of current to wake up and deliver.

.....Beppe, if you buy another amp, you'll be bordering on having an amp for each day of the week....so, you now have a Samson Servo 260, an Adcom GFA545, and the Behringer A500?....if that's so, were you to pick up a powered sub and more speakers, you should have the low end you seek and a 6.1 system....what are you using for a pre-amp to send the signals to the amps and possible sub?....with the purchase of a Behringer DCX 2496 for $250, you would be able to choose the frequency range and volume level of all six channels individually for balance and rolloffs......

Nevertheless I have to tell you that the my previous amp was a Samson Servo 260 that I used with the Dynaudio MSP 110s.
Now the A500 is working with the Dynaudio as well.

.....Beppe, did you tell us here with the "as well" that you are bi-amping the Dynaudio MSP 110's?.....


.....Beppe, I just got called to go ride a train up and back....I'll be back in about 36-48 hours....please go ahead and respond, and guys here who know a lot more about this stuff than me will help you.....

 

[beppe61]

..... Beppe, if you buy another amp, you'll be bordering on having an amp for each day of the week....so, you now have a Samson Servo 260, an Adcom GFA545, and the Behringer A500?.

Yes Sir. This is the case. I have the 3 amps mentioned at hand.
Not that they are bad but I ma finding all they lacking in power below 100Hz in comparison to the Audible Illusions S120 (a so called high-current amp).
Compared to the AI it seems that they all have a low filter engaged.
No deep bass at all. And of course with speakers remaining the same (the Dynaudio I mean).

If that's so, were you to pick up a powered sub and more speakers, you should have the low end you seek and a 6.1 system....what are you using for a pre-amp to send the signals to the amps and possible sub?....with the purchase of a Behringer DCX 2496 for $250, you would be able to choose the frequency range and volume level of all six channels individually for balance and rolloffs..

I do not like the idea of sub. My Dynaudio are able to go down to about 50 Hz flat, if adequately driven. For me it would be more than enough.
I would like to stay simple: just a full-range speaker and a power amp.

.....Beppe, did you tell us here with the "as well" that you are bi-amping the Dynaudio MSP 110's?.......

No. I am driving them full-range. They are 2 ways with a 8" woofer (code 23W75) that to come alive needs a good amount of clean current from the amp.

...Beppe, I just got called to go ride a train up and back....I'll be back in about 36-48 hours....please go ahead and respond, and guys here who know a lot more about this stuff than me will help you.....

..

I will be always here to gather kind, friendly and very valuable advices as yours.
Have a nice trip !

Thank you very much and kind regards,

beppe

 

[PENG]

The Adcom 555's 325 WPC into 4 ohms should be able to get you what you referred to as "authoritative" bass, unless your speakers are not able to reproduce that kind of bass.

 

[beppe61]

The Adcom 555's 325 WPC into 4 ohms should be able to get you what you referred to as "authoritative" bass, unless your speakers are not able to reproduce that kind of bass.

Thank you Sir for your kind and helpful advice.
Before going on with my ramblings I have to apologize for:
1) my misuse of the English language (I am Italian)
2) repeating some questions "ad nauseam".
I am sorry but I really would like to understand and learn the more things I can about audio.
Then, I think you are right. 325W/4 ohm is a very remarkable figure.
The fact is that a used 555 will cost me more (here in Italy) than a brand new Crown XLS 402 (about 450W/4 ohm ! ) that is indeed my next target.
What is your opinion about the Crown? Could it be a more sensible choice than the Adcom, all in all an old amp.
Its build quality should be very good as quality control.

Anyway I am carrying out a test to assess if the break-in is for real.
Presently the A500 is connected to a dumb load made out of two 100W/10 ohm resistors in parallel per channel (i.e. equivalent to one of 200W/5 ohm per each channel).
As I am using the CD "The fat of the land" by Prodigy is a real stressing test indeed for the amp.
After some days I will listen again to the amp for any change in sound.
Any opinion about this procedure will be welcome and very appreciated, even if they will come in the form of insults (eh, eh).

Thank you very much again for your courtesy.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[PENG]

Thank you Sir for your kind and helpful advice.
Before going on with my ramblings I have to apologize for:
1) my misuse of the English language (I am Italian)
2) repeating some questions "ad nauseam".
I am sorry but I really would like to understand and learn the more things I can about audio.
Then, I think you are right. 325W/4 ohm is a very remarkable figure.
The fact is that a used 555 will cost me more (here in Italy) than a brand new Crown XLS 402 (about 450W/4 ohm ! ) that is indeed my next target.
What is your opinion about the Crown? Could it be a more sensible choice than the Adcom, all in all an old amp.
Its build quality should be very good as quality control.

Anyway I am carrying out a test to assess if the break-in is for real.
Presently the A500 is connected to a dumb load made out of two 100W/10 ohm resistors in parallel per channel (i.e. equivalent to one of 200W/5 ohm per each channel).
As I am using the CD "The fat of the land" by Prodigy is a real stressing test indeed for the amp.
After some days I will listen again to the amp for any change in sound.
Any opinion about this procedure will be welcome and very appreciated, even if they will come in the form of insults (eh, eh).

Thank you very much again for your courtesy.
Kind regards,

beppe

Sorry, I have a lot of respect for Crown but based on what I read about them only. As a user of the 555 for more than 15 years I know they are reliable, very capable of delivering high current and after so many years of use it performs just the same. Regarding your "break-in" procedure, I don't know how manufacturers do it but I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. The impedance of most speakers are complex, i.e., they have resistive, reactive and capacitive components, but for breaking in the amp (if there is such a thing) a resistive load should be fine, especially when you give it a low 5 ohm resistance to ensure a lot of current drawn.

 

[beppe61]

1) Sorry, I have a lot of respect for Crown but based on what I read about them only.
2) As a user of the 555 for more than 15 years I know they are reliable, very capable of delivering high current and after so many years of use it performs just the same.
3) Regarding your "break-in" procedure, I don't know how manufacturers do it but I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing.
The impedance of most speakers are complex, i.e., they have resistive, reactive and capacitive components, but for breaking in the amp (if there is such a thing) a resistive load should be fine, especially when you give it a low 5 ohm resistance to ensure a lot of current drawn.

Thank you Sir for your valuable reply.
1) The same for me. I read a lot of positive words about the XLS 402 and Crown is a really dependable brand.
Even if the XLS series is made in China I believe that Crown's QC procedures are a guarantee for customers.
2) If only I had purchased it instead of the 545 I have presently.
After the A500's break-in completion I will have to decide.
Some 555s appear on ebay.it from time to time.
I have put the GFA 555 on my most wanted list.
3) I am pleased to know that the idea is fine. The level I am using the A500 is very higher than a normal use level.
I hope it will not melt down !

Thank you very much again.
Kind regards,

beppe

 

[majorloser]

Behringer A500's

For those of you who want to know about the A500's, my order arrived today.


What was I thinking? I actually have to fit these seven bad boys in the rack and be able to move it when I'm done.
I went from one 80 lb. amp to seven 20 lb. amps.

Well, I won't have it all hooked up till this weekend. I'll keep you all informed how it turns out.

I'll break them in gently............YEAH RIGHT! It's jam time.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I'll break them in gently............YEAH RIGHT! It's jam time.

Isn't that breaking it correctly?

 

[WmAx]

Sorry, I have a lot of respect for Crown but based on what I read about them only. As a user of the 555 for more than 15 years I know they are reliable, very capable of delivering high current and after so many years of use it performs just the same. Regarding your "break-in" procedure, I don't know how manufacturers do it but I don't see anything wrong with what you are doing. The impedance of most speakers are complex, i.e., they have resistive, reactive and capacitive components, but for breaking in the amp (if there is such a thing) a resistive load should be fine, especially when you give it a low 5 ohm resistance to ensure a lot of current drawn.

I'll second the original GFA-555. I have had one for years as well, and I have abused it with 2 ohm rated low sensitivity passive subwoofers in the past, with zero problems and perfect performance. I still use it to this day for other application(s), and it has yet to have a problem.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

For those of you who want to know about the A500's, my order arrived today.


What was I thinking? I actually have to fit these seven bad boys in the rack and be able to move it when I'm done.
I went from one 80 lb. amp to seven 20 lb. amps.

Well, I won't have it all hooked up till this weekend. I'll keep you all informed how it turns out.

I'll break them in gently............YEAH RIGHT! It's jam time.

I want to see pics! Congrats on your amp purchases.

 

[vlad335]

For those of you who want to know about the A500's, my order arrived today.


What was I thinking? I actually have to fit these seven bad boys in the rack and be able to move it when I'm done.
I went from one 80 lb. amp to seven 20 lb. amps.

Well, I won't have it all hooked up till this weekend. I'll keep you all informed how it turns out.

I'll break them in gently............YEAH RIGHT! It's jam time.

Post some pics and your impressions. I am looking forward to it.

I ordered 3 Behringers today for my L/C/R channels. Going to bridge them at 500 watts each and use "the ugliest amp in the world" to power the rears.
(Posted on page 14 of this thread) Just had 2 new 20 amp circuits wired up behind my system and put the amp I have in a rack case. The Behringers should arrive Monday.

Just for the hell of it I hooked up my towers to the Yamaha receiver again while I was preparing the rack. At about -35 and up on the volume, music would begin to lose cohesiveness and sound somewhat strained. This effect would increase with the volume increasing. After I got the rack together and hooked the amp back up, everything is crystal clear and a joy to listen to again. The difference is amazingly real and HUGE! Its like 2 completely different systems.

I am so glad I bumped into this thread!

 

[mulester7]

http://www.audiolines.com/product.php?productid=12906

.....found through Froogle.com.......

 

[rolyasm]

Nice find Mulester. I am drooling at all the options on amps. They have a lot of blemished models, at around 40% off. I am sticking mine in the cold storage, so who cares. Anyone know the difference between the Crown 602 and 602D? The price for a regular 602 blemished is $161.00. That is 370 watts per stereo into 8, or 1200 watts bridged, and it can be bridged to 4 ohms for 1,680 watts. OMG.
Roly

 

[vlad335]

http://www.audiolines.com/product.php?productid=12906

.....found through Froogle.com.......

Is that place for real? $95 new and $86 for a demo? Maybe one of those deals that is a little too good to be true?