American "Neoimperialism"

[majorloser]

You know, I like this world just the way it is. It has been a hell of a lot more screwed up in the past. Since the dawn of recorded time no civilization has been perfect. The American way of life is much better than a majority of the rest of the world. Not perfect but I'll take it over anywhere else!

Just remember one of the most important lessons of history.....

The pacifists, isolationists and "assorted nice guys" are the first ones executed!

The intellegent individual should fear the ignorant masses. They have a tendency to form angry mobs

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

You know, I like this world just the way it is. It has been a hell of a lot more screwed up in the past. Since the dawn of recorded time no civilization has been perfect. The American way of life is much better than a majority of the rest of the world. Not perfect but I'll take it over anywhere else!

Hear Hear! We got it good. A wide variety of food from all over the globe in every grocery store of every small town. The best medical care in the world (Well the top 5 best countries are all pretty close.), utilities that work everyday, our secret police are so secret most people don't believe they exist, we don't need 'papers' to travel from one ocean to another, HDTV, central air, and no roving bands of murderers under the banner of warlords chopping peoples limbs off.

Now if we could just get rid of "reality TV" and find a way to make houses 1/2 off we'd be golden.

 

[Resident Loser]

Here's a quote...

Alright, that's it! I'm pissed! Here is everything.

1- I stated that America DOES NOT deserve to call itself the "best nation," and that Americans shouldn't be over-prideful. NO NATION deserves to be place ITSELF in the chair of world dominance, simply out of its power and success!

...from a tome entitled "In Defense Of Elitism" by William A. Henry 3d:

"Every corner of the human race may have something to contribute. That does not mean all contributions are equal...It is scarcely the same thing to put a man on the moon as to put a bone in your nose."

2- I am a devoted worker for my church...

Good for you, you should be proud of yourself...although since pride is one of the seven deadly sins, you wouldn't wan't to jeopardize your reserved seating when the Rapture comes...

3- Do you really believe that America is leading the world up to its potential?... and much of the East despises US influence and control...justifiable reasons...do so out of distaste for American influence in the Mideast and out of distaste for American society, which puts sex, drugs, alcohol, and other influences into the norm

It has been said that much of the Muslim world hates us because of our support of Israel...We made a huge mistake in 1962 for selling Israel our Hawk missles, "strange bedfellows" ring a bell...up to that point the U.S. State Department considered Israel to be a Zionist state due to the immediately overstepping the boundaries set by the U.N. mandate that created it...Russia supported Egypt, our mid-east cold-war blunder was to support Israel...Was there altruism in our motives? Control of the Suez Canal mean anything? Meant a great deal for Europe and for the region. Yet we can see, through past history, that Europe is responsible for the creation of Israel through earlier mismanagement and self-serving expediencies...is it karma or just ironic? Are we children (the US) suffering for the sins of the father (Europe) while being scolded by that very same father...Because we did better than dad are there ulterior motives?

Insofar as a distaste for "American influences" and other excesses...d@mn, I have distaste for them, so don't get me started on that one....

4- How long will humanity last?...

...and all the rest...

I have seen the future and I'm glad I'll be dead...try as you might "humanity" is intractable...someone will always want the upper hand...one man's God/scriptures/beliefs will always be better than the other man's...it's our fate as animals...maybe it's time for the end days...another big bang...the ultimate catharsis...maybe one of these times we may finally get it right...

jimHJJ(...but I sorta' kinda' doubt it...)

 

[nibhaz]

Yeah......

 

[Sheep]

-National/state endorsement of sexual laws which curb premarital sex, adultery, pornography, and homosexual relations. All of these things contribute to passing on STDs, some of which can't be protected against. Plus, this reduces high school drop out rates by keeping childbirth within marriage.

Completely, disagree.

SheepStar

 

[agarwalro]

And, if Africa serves as an example, having been involved with various churches in the logistics of sending humanitarian aid there, I can tell you that virtually ALL of these can be traced to their local leadership, not America. We're the ones sending the goods, they are the ones that rob it from their own people.

Look at Somalia, Nigeria, Chad, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe and the list goes on and on...

And here the UN wants us MORE involved there. Where's Europe on this? After all, they are the ones that colonized and victimized Africa, not us.

I said developed world collectively. Why do you misconstrue it to refer to USA alone?

 

[agarwalro]

Good thing I'm still in my youth (w00t!)

Anyway, this thread has gone down sh*t creek w/o a paddle. I wish I hadn't made it so separating...I really am a proud citizen, I just find fault with certain parts of our country. I've said the pledge many a time, and each time I say it I mean it more and more...its just that I have a dream for a better world and a better America, one that helps people instead of isolates them, and one that the world really can appreciate for its morals and deeds. Then I'll say we're truly great.

Patriotism is perfectly normal. In fact, being proud of ones country should be second nature. If not, either your country has major issues or you do. But when Americans say Hiroshima, Nagasaki or the Vietman War or the Gulf Wars were acts of greatness... thats pushing it.

America is great, which is why people are still desperate to get here. But some of the folks are giving it a bad rep with their narrow minded outlook and ignorant commentary.

 

[agarwalro]

... demand a heart transplant while it sits on a couch all day eating bag after bad of BBQ potato chips.

Funny man.

Its easy to put the blame on others.

Why is it that America has the highest rate of obesity and heart disease?

 

[agarwalro]

Did you know that Venezuela is the 5th largest producer of oil in the world? Did you know that gas costs $0.15 (fifteen cents) per gallon there? Did you know that Venezuela just got put on the list of terrorist nations!!!!!!??????

I rest my case.

 

[Tomorrow]

Why is it that America has the highest rate of obesity and heart disease?

Because, while a bag of tater chips is a buck here, it's 14,500 bolivars in Venezuela, por examplia. (That'll teach 'em to nationalize their oil and sell gas locally at 15 cents/gallon. Go get 'em Idaho...gouge 'em for those salty spuds.)

It's probably also because we have more computers at which to sit and therefore have more forum pallaver and less exercise time. Oh, yeah, and it's also less invigorating to push an automobile accelerator than it is to ride a donkey.

 

[markw]

I said developed world collectively. Why do you misconstrue it to refer to USA alone?

Actually, that was in response to this post of yours.

No, but they are still dying of hunger, malnutrition, lack of basic medical care, decent living conditions and other reasons considered necessities in the developed world.

So, let's keep this on context, shall we?

We can't control the rest of the world, can we? Well, if we wanted to, I'm sure we could use our might to control it with a draconian iron fist but that would mean a lot more killing and other uglies that would make us a heckuva lot more unpopular, wouldn't it? Not to mention that that's not our style.

All we can control is what WE do. ...and WE do quite a lot, either personal,. throu faith based organizations or even theough the government direstly. To take that even further, we, as individuals, can only really control what we, as individuals, do, no? As such, it's up to us as individuals to do as much as we can. HAve YOU done anything?

If you will re-read my response a bit more carefully, perhaps you can understand why I take that issue somewhat to heart.

And, since this thread was started to hold the US accountable for the whole world's ills. my responses are in that light. Where does the rest of the world's contributions fit in here?

If you want to start a new thread on how the whole world, or Europe even, is responsible for the problems today then that's your prerogative but, in this thread, it's all about the US.

And, if you really feel as guilty as you like to play here in this thread, emigration is always an option. As it is, without that, you are simply another hypocrite who complains about the mother and still suckles at her teats.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...lessee, how many wars and such...should we start with Caesar and the Romans and Hadrians Wall, War of the Roses, Hundred Years War, the Hessians, Attila and the Huns, the Gauls, the Angles, the Saxons, Goths, Visigoths, Barbarossa, Charles Martel, Charlemagne, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Kaiser Wilhelm, the Crusades, feudalism, Louis and Marie, Imperialism, introduction of slavery into the New World and the introduction of unknown diseases to it, the Spanish Armada, the Inquisition, dynamite,Vegemite, mustard gas, U-boats, Xylon, blitzkrieg, Daimler-Benz and Messerschmidt and BASF and don't forget it was Bayer who invented heroin, the Reformation, the Hugenots, Marx, Engles, the Guillotine, purges, pogroms and my all-time fave: ethnic cleansing...Kandinsky, Cubism and overbearing perfumes , Edith Piaf, IKEA, the rack, the wheel, thumbscrews, the Iron Maiden, the broadsword, the stilletto , the mace, Lucretia Borgia...all wonderful examples of Europe at it's finest...

I've been thinking about this. No doubt I'll be accused of being biased, but I figure that the comparison above that shows just how much worse Europe is than America is made void on a number of points:

1. Europe was formaly created in 1957 by the signing of the treaty of Rome (did some digging ). Thus, a large number of conflicts listed above were conflicts of countries and not of Europe as a whole and so cannot be included. This may appear simply to be a play on words, but strictly speaking, it is correct.

2. Assuming that Continental Europe (though actually it's more correctly a sub-continent of Eurasia) was what was referred to above and not the legal entity, it should be pointed out that the former is comprised of 44 separate countries as opposed to America which is of course 1. States don't count as countries even if they're big enough to be though of as such. Seen in this light, no comparison is possible.

3. Europe, whether the legal entity or the continental variety, hasn't been around for the same time as America, (less years in the former case and more in the latter), so straightaway we aren't comparing apples to apples.

4. The state of our society is not the same now as it was then (though sometimes I wonder ). You cannot compare times where thumbscrews were applied with times where we push a button thousands of miles from a target. We're not the same animal (poor choice of word perhaps) as we were then. Not as 'thug-like' if you will.

There, you see? We're really not all that bad after all.

America is great, which is why people are still desperate to get here.

I'm not trying to say that America isn't great, but I think it'd be more correct to say that people are desperate to get to America simply because it's better than where they are at present. I'm not sure that greatness forms any part of their decision to try and get into America.

 

[Resident Loser]

Took you a long time...

I've been thinking about this.

...to come up with that pile of s...emantics.

Actually, Europe (Eurasia, if you will, including the Indian subcontinent) was created by the gradual separation of the landmass referred to as Pangea, as a result of continental drift to due to tectonic activity, around 200 million years ago...and 44 yappy, nippy dogs are much more trouble than one big one IMO...

If you aren't one already, you have a future as a statitician or in advertising...ever try your hand at some after-market wire ad copy?

jimHJJ(...spin...watch where you step...spin...watch where you step...spin...)

 

[Buckle-meister]

[Took you a long time]...to come up with that pile of s...emantics.

On the contrary, I started thinking about it approximately 20 minutes before my lunch today. Over lunch I did a bit of Google-digging and figured what I wrote was entirely logical and reasoned.

Actually, Europe (Eurasia, if you will, including the Indian subcontinent) was created by the gradual separation of the landmass referred to as Pangea, as a result of continental drift to due to tectonic activity, around 200 million years ago...

Yes, I knew that bit myself.

If you aren't one already, you have a future as a statitician or in advertising...ever try your hand at some after-market wire ad copy?

Haha! Thank you for the compliment! Of all the branches of mathematics I have applied myself to, statistics is by far my weakest.

RobbieTB(...though I see you didn't dispute anything I wrote...)

 

[Resident Loser]

I'm sorry...

...though I see you didn't dispute anything I wrote...)

...where would I begin? I didn't dispute what I see as a meaningless rhetorical exercise...

OK...OK...this is a pointed stick...now watch the holes appear...the tribes that evolved into fiefdoms, into kingdoms, into countries, into alliances, into empires, into...get my drift...all the while engaging in subjugation of the masses and war...are you trying to say WWl didn't involve a continent called Europe because according to your understanding that entity didn't exist until some folks signed a piece of parchment in 1957?

Puh-leese...

jimHJJ(...as the kids say get real...)

 

[Resident Loser]

Just...

...for the fun of it (and how sad is that)...I did some research of my own re: the etymology of the word Europe...cutting to the salient point: Europa came to mean mainland Greece but by ca. 500 B.C. it's meaning extended to the lands of the north...more recently, in 1949 the Council Of Europe was established...even that pre-dates '57...

jimHJJ(...I'm sure there are references between the two extremes, but for now, that'll do...)

 

[Buckle-meister]

...are you trying to say WWl didn't involve a continent called Europe because according to your understanding that entity didn't exist until some folks signed a piece of parchment in 1957?

Not at all. I'm saying that grouping every war throughout history that any single country has fought on the landmass that is currently (it's changing all the time remember) regarded as Europe together stretches credulity a bit. Lumping in 'caesar and the Romans' falls short immediately since I somehow doubt that Scotland and England fought the Romans side by side as fellow Europeans, fighting one another as they certainly were.

...in 1949 the Council Of Europe was established...even that pre-dates '57...

Yeah, I read that too but judged the signing of the treaty of Rome to be of greater relevance to the discussion.

 

[Resident Loser]

Ah...errr...

Not at all. I'm saying that grouping every war throughout history that any single country has fought on the landmass that is currently (it's changing all the time remember) regarded as Europe together stretches credulity a bit. Lumping in 'caesar and the Romans' falls short immediately since I somehow doubt that Scotland and England fought the Romans side by side as fellow Europeans, fighting one another as they certainly were..

What part of your own words don't set them bells a-ringin'?

I mean the Romans were geographically Europeans...they were on the Appenine peninsula (present-day italy) and they did build Hadrian's Wall in an attempt to block the barbarians from the northernmost reaches of the empire? Maginot line anyone? History transcends arbitrary geo-political boundaries.

jimHJJ(...anyone else see the point?...)

 

[Buckle-meister]

...dynamite, mustard gas, the Guillotine, the rack, the wheel, thumbscrews, the Iron Maiden, the broadsword, the mace...all wonderful examples of Europe at it's finest...

The above are obviously all examples of weapons, yet stating that they all contribute to making Europe far worse than America is to ignore that some modern day weapons have been developed by America itself and are arguably far more horrific to their intended (and not intended) victims as they're meant to maim and kill on a far greater scale than those quoted. Not that it matters much to the person killed by a mace (ouch!).

 

[Buckle-meister]

History transcends arbitrary geo-political boundaries.

Absolutely! America might one day be part of Europe D), Britain might be part of America or maybe we'll both be part of China.

So why post something (the list) that (albeit originally written by another) effectively boils down to an 'us and them' squabble?