American "Neoimperialism"

[Tomorrow]

Better to be judged by our actions than a word wouldn't you say?

A true wisdom, here.

Let's take a look at the actions of EVERY country on the planet. Which one, which government, which resident people, is without prejudice and selfishness? Which one does not act self-servingly? Which one does NOT deserve the biased complaints and world's distasteful opinion of govenmental actions that is being heaped on the U.S.?

Name one, just one nation that calls itself 'better' than the U.S. and we'll, on this thread, provide dozens of legitimate objections and criticisms as to why it is not deserving of that title. Shall we start with Iran? France? Viet Nam? Australia? You name it.

We are the biggest target, Numen. That is all.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Then we are at variance...please remember I said our "...post-war economy..."

Sorry, but I still disagree. You just can't make sweeping statements about 'envy of the world', even 'post war economy'. There are people out there that don't care one whit about America; they don't care one whit about the country they live in! For some, it isn't even so much that they don't care one whit; they simply don't think about it.

Had I wished to brand all Europeans I wouldn't have used the term Euro-snots...perhaps saying French and German would have been less rankling...

Is this a hook? I'm not biting. Your comment didn't rankle me from some kind of superiority on my part over being branded 'as bad as' French or Germans. I have no ill feeling towards any country or its citizens. I simply feel that all too often citizens of one country slate another in its entirety based upon limited personal experiance, misguided opinion from propaganda on the part of the media, or a deep seated insecurity.

I mean the Japanese who want to be cowboys...the Brits who want to be Elvis...the French who want to be Black jazz-masters...the youths who want Levis...there are more examples I'm sure...if the Amercian model wasn't there, then what...The excesses that are typically American are coveted and yet we are castigated when we exhibit them...

I can't speak for all for any country, but for what its worth, Brits who want to be Elvis? Eh? I don't know of anyone who wants to be Elvis. If there are some, they must form less than 1% of the population. As for jeans, I haven't worn Levis for years, nor do I intend changing this as Levis, whilst of decent quality and durability, are hardly the most comfortable jean 'out there'. Maybe I'm alone in my thinking, though surely we'd both agree that statistically it'd be unlikely, when I say that it should be a comforting thought that I for one do not castigate Americans for exhibiting American traits. Common sense dictates that if anything, they'd be expected to do just that.

...Have a good weekend...

And to you.

God save us, I've spawned a beast!

No, I don't think so. You simply started a thread. Contributions from people to the thread will, by their words, determine whether or not the thread degenerates to become 'a beast' or not. Hopefully it wont sink to that level.

Anyway, I'd like to see some non-American responses (like the guy from Scotland) on this issue.

As one of the few non-Americans who frequently visits yet is not well-versed in either history or politics, I'm not sure what I can add. This could well push my diplomacy skills to their limit.

One thing that makes my argument slightly invalid is the fact that I'm American...

On the contrary. Given that you've even raised such a topic would increase your standing in many peoples' eyes. There is nothing void in debating the country to which you yourself belong. All it requires is to think for oneself.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Levi's are Chinese now anyway. (Back to the thread)

"Americans use alot of resources."
Thats fair, I guess. But we also produce alot of resources. Electric Energy, clean air, food (show me a country that makes more food than America), modular houses etc etc etc.... We build it all. So we get to use it if we want too. (When we need to steal Canada's cable TV I'll admit we have a problem).

Really the only thing we seriosuly lack is crude oil. If Ethanol blend/Biodiesel ever happens (been waitin a few decades now), we'll probably become the most self-sufficient nation since 1890. We'll probably also need to remember how to build out own affordable consumer electronics again too.... (then again; if every C.Electronic device was McIntosh expensive we probably wouldn't have such garbage on TV/Radio. Programming for the lowest common denominator would end! Hollywood & the cinema would flourish!)

 

[The Numenorian]

On the contrary. Given that you've even raised such a topic would increase your standing in many peoples' eyes. There is nothing void in debating the country to which you yourself belong. All it requires is to think for oneself.

Thanks. I'm glad to see that someone appreciates one of the fundamental elements of democracy- an honorable freedom to voice opinion, popular or not.

 

[majorloser]

Thanks. I'm glad to see that someone appreciates one of the fundamental elements of democracy- an honorable freedom to voice opinion, popular or not.

And waste our employers time at work.............that's the REAL American contribution to our failing economy.

Just like you said at the beginning of this thread.........

"Hello all, this is a musing of mine while sitting here at work with nothing to do."

 

[agarwalro]

Why is it that whenever the developed world shown interest in the undeveloped world, the region in question has ended up worse for the intervention. Starting from when Europe started "colonizing" the "savage" regions of the world, only to plunder the resources, loot the riches and rape the people, to America "liberating" the Irani people, as a front for a war driven by an unsatiable need for oil and economic gains; why is that the so called savages and so called oppressed are not any better off today than when their "need" for intervention was brought to eveyones attention.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Why is it that whenever the developed world shown interest in the undeveloped world, the region in question has ended up worse for the intervention. Starting from when Europe started "colonizing" the "savage" regions of the world, only to plunder the resources, loot the riches and rape the people, to America "liberating" the Irani people, as a front for a war driven by an unsatiable need for oil and economic gains; why is that the so called savages and so called oppressed are not any better off today than when their "need" for intervention was brought to eveyones attention.

Well, they aren't dying of polio anymore.

 

[Tomorrow]

Why is it that whenever the developed world shown interest in the undeveloped world, the region in question has ended up worse for the intervention. Starting from when Europe started "colonizing" the "savage" regions of the world, only to plunder the resources, loot the riches and rape the people, to America "liberating" the Irani people, as a front for a war driven by an unsatiable need for oil and economic gains; why is that the so called savages and so called oppressed are not any better off today than when their "need" for intervention was brought to eveyones attention.

Nothing like a little generalizing, stereotyping, and pontificated absolutes to make for a good, logical, and educated discussion.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...if the Amercian model wasn't there, then what...

Surely you're not suggesting that if America had never been, that somehow the world just couldn't have survived? Of course it could've. It certainly did for the greater part of the last two thousand years.

 

[agarwalro]

Well, they aren't dying of polio anymore.

No, but they are still dying of hunger, malnutrition, lack of basic medical care, decent living conditions and other reasons considered necessities in the developed world.

 

[agarwalro]

Nothing like a little generalizing, stereotyping, and pontificated absolutes to make for a good, logical, and educated discussion.

Surely you are refering to the facts like:
1) All Europeans are stupid
2) All Middle easterners are terrorists
3) All Asians are bad drivers

etc. that are considered trivial knowledge among Americans.

 

[Buckle-meister]

...All Europeans are stupid...

Now that's ironic.

 

[markw]

No, but they are still dying of hunger, malnutrition, lack of basic medical care, decent living conditions and other reasons considered necessities in the developed world.

And, if Africa serves as an example, having been involved with various churches in the logistics of sending humanitarian aid there, I can tell you that virtually ALL of these can be traced to their local leadership, not America. We're the ones sending the goods, they are the ones that rob it from their own people.

Look at Somalia, Nigeria, Chad, Ethiopia, Zimbabwe and the list goes on and on...

And here the UN wants us MORE involved there. Where's Europe on this? After all, they are the ones that colonized and victimized Africa, not us.

 

[markw]

Surely you're not suggesting that if America had never been, that somehow the world just couldn't have survived? Of course it could've. It certainly did for the greater part of the last two thousand years.

Well, I don't know. I'm sure it would have survived, but who would be running it and what would it be like?

Remember that Hitler guy about 65 - 70 years ago? Where do you think you would be now without our strength and intervention?

Do you lust for the lifestyle of those countries that were behind the iron curtain?

 

[The Numenorian]

Exactly...65-70 years ago. America today is different, and so is the world, with the Cold War and all. This isn't about Hitler, who many seem so fond of referring to in their deification of America. This is about TODAY, and the problems that a new America is facing, like competition from foreign workers, oil prices, world politics, and foreign policy.

Speaking of Hitler, there might not have even been a powerful Third Reich if the Treaty of Versailles hadn't been so harsh on Germany, spawning anti-Ally sentiment, and if the US Congress had ratified our membership in the League of Nations where we could have held major influence over war debts.

After WWI, Germany was so destroyed that its currency at home couldn't get things done. I recall a story of a person who left a basket of money outside of a store a while after the war ended. When she came back out, the basket was gone, and all the money was on the ground. She could thank the unforgiving Allies for that.

 

[Tomorrow]

I recall a story of a person who left a basket of money outside of a store a while after the war ended. When she came back out, the basket was gone, and all the money was on the ground. She could thank the unforgiving Allies for that.

Hmmm. To quote a notable person from an expansive post on 'god' in another thread.....

One of the universe's smallest forces, man, contains what it takes the entire universe to express: love, order, growth, and eternity.

Perhaps you really think it's god's will she should thank.

 

[Buckle-meister]

It's like all those war movies made by America in which they single-handedly win the war. Please. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but propaganda is quite another. And the studios are still at it! Just look at U-571.

Clearly it's fact that America helped tip the balance in the Allies favour so that the war was 'won'. What isn't fact and shouldn't be stated as if it somehow were, is that without America's intervention the Allies would all now be speaking German. Maybe we would and maybe we wouldn't, but that's all that can be said with any certainty.

Given that modern day America as we know it derives at least in part from an influx of Europeans, I don't quite understand this 'us and them' thinking. You may not like what Europeans did at one time or another, but they're 'in your blood' as it were and no amount of self denial will change that fact. The sooner you come to grips with this, the closer you are to appreciating that it matters not at all.

 

[markw]

What's this "us and them" stuff?

It's like all those war movies made by America in which they single-handedly win the war. Please. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but propaganda is quite another. And the studios are still at it! Just look at U-571.

Clearly it's fact that America helped tip the balance in the Allies favour so that the war was 'won'. What isn't fact and shouldn't be stated as if it somehow were, is that without America's intervention the Allies would all now be speaking German. Maybe we would and maybe we wouldn't, but that's all that can be said with any certainty.

Given that modern day America as we know it derives at least in part from an influx of Europeans, I don't quite understand this 'us and them' thinking. You may not like what Europeans did at one time or another, but they're 'in your blood' as it were and no amount of self denial will change that fact. The sooner you come to grips with this, the closer you are to appreciating that it matters not at all.

I have nothing against Europeans but it seems they have a lot against us. It's "you guys" (high and mighty eurotrash and self effacing liberal Americans that can't tell facts from propaganda) demonizing us.

And, "tipped the balance" is a bit of an understatement. We saved your asses. Face it, bucky. Without us you would be speaking German and there would be no Jews. Deal with it.

And, no, the great needed influx of Europeans is over as of several generations ago and have properly blended into the American tapestry by now. Guess what they call themselves now? Americans!

And, I liked "Braveheart", too. doesn't that count for anything?

 

[markw]

Exactly...65-70 years ago. America today is different, and so is the world, with the Cold War and all. This isn't about Hitler, who many seem so fond of referring to in their deification of America. This is about TODAY, and the problems that a new America is facing, like competition from foreign workers, oil prices, world politics, and foreign policy.

Speaking of Hitler, there might not have even been a powerful Third Reich if the Treaty of Versailles hadn't been so harsh on Germany, spawning anti-Ally sentiment, and if the US Congress had ratified our membership in the League of Nations where we could have held major influence over war debts.

After WWI, Germany was so destroyed that its currency at home couldn't get things done. I recall a story of a person who left a basket of money outside of a store a while after the war ended. When she came back out, the basket was gone, and all the money was on the ground. She could thank the unforgiving Allies for that.

Perhaps you forget who won the cold war? So, what's your point about TODAY?

Who among those listed in that survey is capable of maintaining the status quo? Nobody. So, it's simply wishful thinking to pander to thee leftists in the crowd. It's just like my Jessicia Alba analogy. Cute, but totally without meriit in the real world.

Well, look at Europe for the treaty of Versailles, not the US. IMNSHO, we simply should havelet europe destroy itself but, then again, no good deed goes unpunished.

And, as for that basket and the money, of course it's not possible that another German took it , is it? In your eyes, of course not. Then again, it's only a story.

Your slant is showing. So, when are you renouncing your citizenship out of shame?

 

[Buckle-meister]

I have nothing against Europeans but it seems they have a lot against us.

They? As in all Europeans? Us? Not 'them and us'? Riiiight.

We saved your asses. Face it, bucky. Without us you would be speaking German and there would be no Jews. Deal with it.

What's to deal with? If the Allies had 'lost', I'd simply be speaking my native German as you say and wouldn't know any different.

...I liked "Braveheart", too. doesn't that count for anything?

You've lost me with that one. Can you explain it please?