Adam Kinzinger (R-IL)

Trell

Trell

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'm not saying that a cult of personality couldn't form on the left. But, who might be a candidate to fill that role?

While Trumpists may self-identify as conservatives, I think you're correct in that many - if not all - of them conform with the conventional definition. I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that cults generally coalesce on a specific person - Trump, in this case.

On the left - which includes groups that self-identify as such or groups that have been "consigned" to that spectrum, regardless of their views - you have social progressives, economic socialists and combinations of both, in kind and degree. That's the 10,000 foot view. Zoom in, and those categories can be subdivided into a practically infinite number of sub-categories.

I may be wrong, but I don't think there is such diversity of views on the right. You have conventional conservatives and Trumpists. You can probably subdivide those groups, as well, but I don't think their nearly as diverse as groups on the left.
Nah, it is well known (by published research over many years) that US liberals are far more focused on policy than person compared to US republicans.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
Cancel culture has always existed.. It's now a thing because the right wing named it and fostered it's counter arguments... Evidence that " cancel culture has always existed: colin kaepernick... That wasn't rich folks canceling a guys right to work in his chosen profession?... Good thing he aint a snowflake like the current bitch baby foxnoise cult crying about it, he actually survived it financially...
Kaepernick happened less than ten years ago- that hardly qualifies as 'always'.
Go a bit further back and we find that the right didn't always have a problem with cancel culture.
Hollywood blacklist - Wikipedia
 
L

lp85253

Senior Audioholic
Kaepernick happened less than ten years ago- that hardly qualifies as 'always'.
It's not everything , it's just the first thing that came to mind... I know you don't really want me to talk about the entire black population of the US that was cancelled for 4 centuries??? and some foxnoise folks still want to whine about affirmative action being an "advantage "...i COULD spend hours writing examples of how it goes both ways and the right has used it more effectively than the left is seen to be doing now.. Or you could give me the benefit of the doubt( and you know I'm right) and we could move on...
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
It's not everything , it's just the first thing that came to mind... I know you don't really want me to talk about the entire black population of the US that was cancelled for 4 centuries?
I can't imagine the lost opportunity that slavery, segregation, jim crow laws, red lining, etc have caused. All this in lifetimes where we are either 0 or 1 degree removed from it. I had a room-mate that had to visit the Black Santa at JC Penny.

Investments do need to be made in communities that where basically starved out. It's a mess and I'm wondering how many generations this is going to take.

But I think there is cancel culture that is truly heinous vs the petty vindictive ideology that we are seeing now. Again I'd like to point out Martina Navratilova was canceled. What do you do when a faction starts eating their own? Where does it stop?
 
L

lp85253

Senior Audioholic
IMO that's a recent event. I don't think he should have paid a price for pointing out a problem.
It is recent... But it's certainly applicable... :) edit : i hadn't heard about Martina issue... I'm going to follow that..she's a particular interest to me... She was the greatest ever back in my day.. She's probably still top 5 all time.. Maybe #2...
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
I can't imagine the lost opportunity that slavery, segregation, jim crow laws, red lining, etc have caused. All this in lifetimes where we are either 0 or 1 degree removed from it. I had a room-mate that had to visit the Black Santa at JC Penny.
In Georgia, It just became illegal to give someone waiting to vote food or water....so you create a system where people have to wait in line hours to vote, then made it illegal to provide any comfort. That my friends is voter suppression.

That my friends is democracy in Amerikkka.
 
L

lp85253

Senior Audioholic
In Georgia, It just became illegal to give someone waiting to vote food or water....so you create a system where people have to wait in line hours to vote, then made it illegal to provide any comfort. That my friends is voter suppression.

That my friends is democracy in Amerikkka.
That's some seriously crazy law there... As Don King used to say " only in America ".....
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I know that AOC is a psychological trigger for you along with Warren, Bernie, Green Deal and Sleepy Joe, but in this your fail.
Wrong again. Biden isn't on the list. And you forgot Wyden.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
In Georgia, It just became illegal to give someone waiting to vote food or water....
I can see this another way. When younger, and going to wait in line for tickets, I brought water and snacks. I believe in 2020 election fraud as much as I believe in widespread voter suppression.

Long lines are a problem. Especially so if the lines in areas that are primarily minority are long vs other. I've yet to see that be a categorical case though. When my parents went to vote at the ball park the line wrapped around the entirety of the outside of the park. Mostly white people. Mom doesn't recall any food/water being handed out. I also don't see the issue with doing so however.

*I did a quick bit of reading. Yep that's a problem if you are closing voting centers in only certain area's and creating additional problems without redress. Sound's like some state lawmakers need to be made to find another job next election cycle.
 
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Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
I can see this another way. When younger, and going to wait in line for tickets, I brought water and snacks. I believe in 2020 election fraud as much as I believe in widespread voter suppression.

Long lines are a problem. Especially so if the lines in areas that are primarily minority are long vs other. I've yet to see that be a categorical case though. When my parents went to vote at the ball park the line wrapped around the entirety of the outside of the park. Mostly white people. Mom doesn't recall any food/water being handed out.
i don’t think it is possible to be intellectually honest and deny Amerikkka’s history of voter suppression, by any means necessary...

Do you think this legislation and others like it that are being ushered in would be proposed if republicans won the election?

people that support racist policies can always see things another way....
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
i don’t think it is possible to be intellectually honest and deny Amerikkka’s history of voter suppression, by any means necessary...

Do you think this legislation and others like it that are being ushered in would be proposed if republicans won the election?

people that support racist policies can always see things another way....
Should it be legal to give people in line cash if they promise to vote for a particular candidate?
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
Should it be legal to give people in line cash if they promise to vote for a particular candidate?
How much?

So giving someone that has been in line 4 hours waiting to vote a bottle of water and a cookie is widespread voter fraud.....

voting should be made as easy as possible in a free democracy.

you quoted me but managed not to directly respond to any of the points I raised.
Amerikkka’s history is undeniable and irrefutable.
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
i don’t think it is possible to be intellectually honest and deny Amerikkka’s history of voter suppression, by any means necessary...

Do you think this legislation and others like it that are being ushered in would be proposed if republicans won the election?

people that support racist policies can always see things another way....
Initially I knew that giving away food/drink as a promotion for people that voted and provided proof was illegal federally. I agree that this is a situation created to stick it to a certain segment before the vote. They aren't the same thing.

I know anytime that I'm going to be waiting in line I prepare accordingly. There shouldn't be lines like this to begin with. I have no idea other than becoming politically active you put a stop to these behaviors.

Who's denying past, historic, voter suppression?
 
Old Onkyo

Old Onkyo

Audioholic Chief
Initially I knew that giving away food/drink as a promotion for people that voted and provided proof was illegal federally. I agree that this is a situation created to stick it to a certain segment before the vote. They aren't the same thing.

I know anytime that I'm going to be waiting in line I prepare accordingly. There shouldn't be lines like this to begin with. I have no idea other than becoming politically active you put a stop to these behaviors.

Who's denying past, historic, voter suppression?
Anyone that would support current present day voter suppression, an attempt to seize control of the government by force because their side lost the election, or continue to paint a picture that people of color lied cheated and stole the election from good god fearing white people in Georgia, Wisconsin, Texas, Arizona, et.al.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
Anyone that would support current present day voter suppression, an attempt to seize control of the government by force because their side lost the election, or continue to paint a picture that people of color lied cheated and stole the election from good god fearing white people in Georgia, Wisconsin, Texas, Arizona, et.al.
I meant in this thread about this topic. The election process needs to be improved. I hope that reparations in the form of investment in discriminated communities will help. It's frustrating and I'm not really affected by it. So I can't imagine what its like to be directly looking at the disparity and going WTF...

The other stuff I read about giving out food/water is called line warming. I'm pretty sure a piece of $0.50 pizza and a $0.12 bottle of water isn't changing anyone's vote.

I've gotta ask: What would you do if you had the ability to make things happen come voting time? Why aren't we rolling out pop-up voting centers like we can pop-up Covid Vaccination sites?
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
In Georgia, It just became illegal to give someone waiting to vote food or water....so you create a system where people have to wait in line hours to vote, then made it illegal to provide any comfort. That my friends is voter suppression.

That my friends is democracy in Amerikkka.
Does that apply to all people waiting in line, in all voting facilities?

If it takes an hour to enter, sign in and vote, that's on the local government- obviously, not all polling places are in highly populated areas, so those should be able to get people in an out in a short time- if the larger cities make people wait for hours, that needs much more publicity and it needs to be noisy- there's no reason to do that. If it goes all the way to the state capital, so be it but make sure everyone hears about it.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Chief
How much?

So giving someone that has been in line 4 hours waiting to vote a bottle of water and a cookie is widespread voter fraud.....

voting should be made as easy as possible in a free democracy.

you quoted me but managed not to directly respond to any of the points I raised.
Amerikkka’s history is undeniable and irrefutable.
I think we can agree that long lines at polling places are ridiculous. This seems to be the main problem. I'll agree that historically there has been voter suppression.

You said "In Georgia, It just became illegal to give someone waiting to vote food or water . . ." It is true that house bill 531 passed in the house (https://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/59831). However, unless I missed it, the senate bill does not include this provision (https://www.legis.ga.gov/legislation/60009). It remains to be seen what version (if any) actually becomes law.

Here's the provision in the house bill:

>>>Said chapter is further amended by revising subsection (a) of Code Section 21-2-414, relating
to restrictions on campaign activities and public opinion polling within the vicinity of a
polling place, cellular phone use prohibited, prohibition of candidates from entering certain
polling places, and penalty, as follows:

"(a) No person shall solicit votes in any manner or by any means or method, nor shall any
person distribute or display any campaign material, nor shall any person give, offer to give,
or participate in the giving of any money or gifts, including, but not limited to, food and
drink,
to an elector, nor shall any person solicit signatures for any petition, nor shall any
person, other than election officials discharging their duties, establish or set up any tables
or booths on any day in which ballots are being cast:
(1) Within 150 feet of the outer edge of any building within which a polling place is established;
(2) Within any polling place; or
(3) Within 25 feet of any voter standing in line to vote at any polling place.
These restrictions shall not apply to conduct occurring in private offices or areas which
cannot be seen or heard by such electors."<<< (the underlined portion indicates the new material)

As an initial matter, various news reports refer to this applying within 150 feet of polling place. Although this is technically true, this appears to be somewhat misleading because it also applies within 25 feet of voters standing in line. As I read this, it applies even if the person in line is more than 150 feet from the building.

Although (a) begins with "No person shall solicit votes in any manner . . ." the new section begins with "nor shall . . ." I'm not sure how a court would construe this if it were to become law, but on the face of it the new prohibitions are not limited to an attempt to "solicit" votes (i.e. it's broader).

On the other hand, it is limited to "giving of any money or gifts." This is not legal advice, but I don't see how a person could be prosecuted if they were to sell food and drink to people in line at cost because this would not involve a gift. Assuming people had been giving free food and drink to people in line because they wanted to help people stay in line, these people should be able to sell food and drink at cost (if this were to become law).

Federal law (18 U.S.C. Section 597) states:

>>>§597. Expenditures to influence voting
Whoever makes or offers to make an expenditure to any person, either to vote or withhold his vote, or to vote for or against any candidate; and
Whoever solicits, accepts, or receives any such expenditure in consideration of his vote or the withholding of his vote—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if the violation was willful, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.<<<

Notice that this is actually broader in some respects than the provision in the house bill in Georgia because it is not limited to activity at or near polling places.

Arguably, giving free food or drink to a person in line so they will stay in line and vote is "an expenditure . . . to vote" that is already prohibited by federal law. I'm not aware of anyone being prosecuted under this law in the voting line situation.

I'll answer my own hypothetical. It should be (and is) illegal under federal law to give people in line cash if they promise to vote for a particular candidate.

Regardless, the long lines strike me as being the major problem. In a sense, the alleged need to pass laws regulating behavior in lines at polling places is by itself evidence of a problem. It's ridiculous.

 
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