11.2 system from scratch, well mostly

[CBASS]

Interesting discussion about amps. I was thinking about using my AVR 3802 for driving a couple speakers but turns out I am using that for the in home speakers now. The specifics of amp specs are over my head so I simply went with a middle of the road consumer model that will interface easily. I picked up an MM8003 for 450.00 CAD. I figure that will allow me to run my 3 front speakers and a couple surrounds on the AVR X4400H and I’ll run the rest of the Speakers on the MM8003. Maybe that’s ass backwards and I’m sure you pros will let me know if it is. I’d imagine as far as juice goes running both of these units together should suffice for my home theatre needs. I’m still far less money than buying the Marantz SR8012 and the amp will last me a long time I’d imagine.

Thanks again,
Please keep the advice coming.

 

[lovinthehd]

S

Interesting discussion about amps. I was thinking about using my AVR 3802 for driving a couple speakers but turns out I am using that for the in home speakers now. The specifics of amp specs are over my head so I simply went with a middle of the road consumer model that will interface easily. I picked up an MM8003 for 450.00 CAD. I figure that will allow me to run my 3 front speakers and a couple surrounds on the AVR X4400H and I’ll run the rest of the Speakers on the MM8003. Maybe that’s ass backwards and I’m sure you pros will let me know if it is. I’d imagine as far as juice goes running both of these units together should suffice for my home theatre needs. I’m still far less money than buying the Marantz SR8012 and the amp will last me a long time I’d imagine.

Thanks again,
Please keep the advice coming.

LOL sorry for the hijack in any case. Yes, that amp should work fine, pretty nice price for an 8ch amp at 140wpc (sold for USD 2600 originally). I'd run the mains off the power amp, tho.

 

[CBASS]

Thanks,

Ok mains off the power amp it will be. Just the L/R and Centre off that amp or throw in a couple of surrounds for good measure? There’s going to be a lot of power. It’s just a matter of distribution now.

Cheers,
CBASS

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks,

Ok mains off the power amp it will be. Just the L/R and Centre off that amp or throw in a couple of surrounds for good measure? There’s going to be a lot of power. It’s just a matter of distribution now.

Cheers,
CBASS

I'd run the power amp for the mains first, then surrounds (primary surrounds) or any speaker that was particularly low sensitivity....although you have plenty to go around

 

[CBASS]

I had to look up what you were referencing. Sensitivity is interesting and certainly nothing I’ve ever referenced before. Guess it’s just a matter of feeding what I’ve got more power for now although from what I read 90db was not necessarily low sensitivity?
“She’s running out of lithium crystals as it is Captain!”

 

[lovinthehd]

I had to look up what you were referencing. Sensitivity is interesting and certainly nothing I’ve ever referenced before. Guess it’s just a matter of feeding what I’ve got more power for now although from what I read 90db was not necessarily low sensitivity?
“She’s running out of lithium crystals as it is Captain!”

One of the more useful speaker specs, altho there's issues in how it might be stated (anechoic at 1m/2.83V is the generally preferred standard). Still, a good indicator of how much amp you need. 90dB is closer to higher sensitivity than lower. Many speakers are mid to high 80s, fewer are in the mid to high 90s. Some are much higher. Try this spl calculator to approximate needs if you haven't already http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[CBASS]

One of the more useful speaker specs, altho there's issues in how it might be stated (anechoic at 1m/2.83V is the generally preferred standard). Still, a good indicator of how much amp you need. 90dB is closer to higher sensitivity than lower. Many speakers are mid to high 80s, fewer are in the mid to high 90s. Some are much higher. Try this spl calculator to approximate needs if you haven't already http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Well looks like I can make ears bleed if I do desire lol. That being said I’m not putting this together for massive volume. Just amazing sound quality. The rears are 7 feet away. The mains are more sensitive and at 12’ but it’s all skull crushing imo.

 

[lovinthehd]

Movies are generally mixed to an 85dB average level with 20dB peaks (105 dB for the speakers, but an additional 10dB for the LFE channel). You can generally hit very high levels for sure with current amplification. Sometimes the sensitivity figures are a bit low, or not accurately stated (2.83V is 1 watt for 8 ohm, but 2 watt for 4 ohm for example, so depends how it's spec'd as to any adjustments needed). Takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl. I think you'll be fine in any case.

 

[yepimonfire]

It's also important to realize that's 105dB PEAK. Think glass window breaking or the impulse of an explosion, it's only sustained for a few seconds, and many Avrs with decent capacitor banks can handle a bit more than their continuous rating peak. It's really the subwoofer that struggles, because a lot of the time during very heavy bass scenes, 110-115dB LFE sustained for several seconds is quite common.

Also keep in mind at such a short distance, your perception of spl changes. This is a well known fact in film mixing. For example, if someone intends to mix in a small room (like a bedroom for example), it's recommended that they calibrate to 79dB vs 85dB, because in a small room, 79dB sounds the same and will translate the same on a theatrical dub stage. This is one reason why many tend to listen below reference level in their living rooms. Big rooms tend to flatten out the dynamics, so the really loud parts don't sound so loud. This is also one reason engineers also do a near field HT remix for bluray, because a theatrical mix won't sound like it sounded in the theater in a smaller living room because of this.

Movies are generally mixed to an 85dB average level with 20dB peaks (105 dB for the speakers, but an additional 10dB for the LFE channel). You can generally hit very high levels for sure with current amplification. Sometimes the sensitivity figures are a bit low, or not accurately stated (2.83V is 1 watt for 8 ohm, but 2 watt for 4 ohm for example, so depends how it's spec'd as to any adjustments needed). Takes a doubling of power to gain 3dB spl. I think you'll be fine in any case.

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

 

[PENG]

Interesting discussion about amps. I was thinking about using my AVR 3802 for driving a couple speakers but turns out I am using that for the in home speakers now. The specifics of amp specs are over my head so I simply went with a middle of the road consumer model that will interface easily. I picked up an MM8003 for 450.00 CAD. I figure that will allow me to run my 3 front speakers and a couple surrounds on the AVR X4400H and I’ll run the rest of the Speakers on the MM8003. Maybe that’s ass backwards and I’m sure you pros will let me know if it is. I’d imagine as far as juice goes running both of these units together should suffice for my home theatre needs. I’m still far less money than buying the Marantz SR8012 and the amp will last me a long time I’d imagine.

Thanks again,
Please keep the advice coming.

450 CAD is an incredible price for the MM8003. That amp's been bench tested by S&V to output 248 watts, two channel driven into 4 ohms and has a massive toroidal transformer yet weighs just under 40 lbs. I am using it to power my surround channels but that's because I have a more powerful amp for the LRC. In your case, you definitely can do better to use for your LRC channels and let the smallish X4400H take care of the surround and height/Atmos speakers.

Your set up now still cost half the price of the 8012 and 2X the value in terms of output power alone . Very wise decision! Caveat: Assuming the MM8003 is in top working condition, hard to imagine anyone would sell it for only 450 CAD. I would be willing to pay at $650 if it works perfectly and $150 more if there's no scratches and dents, but I don't need two of the same.

 

[CBASS]

Well I don’t have the MM8003 in hand yet but from what I can see from the pictures and talking to the guy it’s in great shape. I’m glad you like the amp.

From what I see there is very good equipment in the hands of the general consumer(as in myself) that they sell at very large discounts. Wife wants the big ugly speakers gone. Big amp sits and collects dust. Sell it on the local buy and sell for whatever they can get for it syndrome. By the time I’m done in the next 12 months with buying used speakers I assume I’ll be in for a few thousand dollars what would cost somebody at the stereo shop well in excess of 10 today. I’ve bought lots of new stereo equipment over the years but honestly I could have had a much better system with the “used” discount due to budgetary constraints. It’s a fun little hunt I’m on but I couldn’t do it without the knowledge that’s being passed on here.

Thanks,
CBASS

 

[CBASS]

Well I didn’t get to the power amp in time so had to reasses the AVR. I got impatient And went with an all in one solution. The AVR-6400H seemed to satisfy that. Finally setup for the most part and I’ve got to say for my little room it does an amazing job running 11 speakers. Funny part is my family doesn’t like THX reference levels. I end up watching movies at about 60DB so massive power or additional amps doesn’t seem to be an issue lol. I will be sure to test this system out to it’s full potential when I get the house to myself.
As far as the in wall surround speakers I’m using I’ve got to say that if your in Canada looking for bang for the buck I’d certainly get these soundstage speakers from visions again. It’s never cheap buying 8 surround speakers but this is about as good as your going to get for decent quality imo.
My 20 year old paradigm towers seem fine but the cc370 honestly sounded horrible. Maybe I was a bit too hard on it over the years but it was muffled and soft. I had another cheap Polk Centre sitting around that is much better. At higher volumes it’s too much in comparison to the paradigms 7.2’s. Seems like at some point I’m going to have to replace the front 3.
The ol pw2200 is providing good tight base after the audio setup but it’s certainly not hitting as hard as I’d like.
It’s odd but in audesey setup it had me turning my subwoofer down to about a quarter output so I’m not sure if it’s the sub or the audesey settings. Something to play around with but I’m likely going to be buying a couple subs as well at some point. The audessey calibration worked very well. ATMOS sounds amazing. Of course to have an ATMOS source I had to go with buying a new xbox one x. Trying to figure out the rest of the settings is going to be a challenge in itself. One of these days I’ll read the manual.
As I get deeper into what I’ve got I’ll keep everyone posted but thanks for all of the recommendations.
Now it’s hunting for the front 3 speakers and a couple killer subs.