Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 Speaker System Review

[gene]

Here's a progress report on my experiences with the FS52 towers and attempts to work up a mod. It's very tricky for me to say much about the sound of the stock version, since I have a conflict of interest. I'll just say that you get a heck of a lot of speaker for the money, but there are some things you just can't do (even if you're Andrew Jones) and still come in on budget. The 2.5 configuration adds to the complexity and cost. After listening to the speaker carefully, measuring it, tracing through the stock crossover, modeling it, and futzing, my opinion is that it would take more components to get the midrange out of the way sooner and to let the tweeter handle more of the chore in the lower treble. It's not exactly a state-of-the-art tweeter, and it needs to be rolled off fairly sharply to avoid overloading, but I think I was able to improve the clarity and presence of the speaker by reshaping the tweeter response and using a steeper roll-off slope on the midrange to get its breakup mode (which is not all that severe) suppressed further. I used the top of the cabinet as the design axis to avoid a crossover suckout at the normal listening position, which would be above the tweeter axis on this short tower. I also voiced the tweeter down so that it was flat with the midrange except for a peak at 15 kHz that I couldn't get rid of. My approach was to keep the stock crossover as is, and to simply add an additional circuit for ease of modification and economy. I added two resistors, 1 inductor, and 3 capacitors per side. The total parts cost is $30 - $40/pr depending on the quality of the capacitors used. I have to document everything and get someone to try out a Beta pair before I make the design available. Any current owners of 52's that would like to try out a pair for me to make sure the changes I've made are really going to make owners happy? The closer to Washington, D.C., the better. I'll pay shipping both ways if it's not too far.

Dennis;

that's great. If you can show before/after measurements and have a 3rd party validate the sonic improvements, I'd be happy to publish an article for you on our site if you write up the report.

 

[AndrewJ]

[My approach was to keep the stock crossover as is, and to simply add an additional circuit for ease of modification and economy. I added two resistors, 1 inductor, and 3 capacitors per side. The total parts cost is $30 - $40/pr depending on the quality of the capacitors used.]

Yes, as Dennis has found out, the speakers can no doubt be improved by throwing more money at them, Ces La Vie
The trick was doing as much as I could at the price I was given. The extra components would not of course cost me that much, but there still had to be a cutoff in what I could spend, but it doesn't stop the purchaser from having a go themselves and seeing what can be done, though of course you will invalidate the warranty...
The point is that the speaker has been engineered to be great value and so has the potential to be tweaked if you choose to do so.

Have fun!

Andrew

 

[Dennis Murphy]

[My approach was to keep the stock crossover as is, and to simply add an additional circuit for ease of modification and economy. I added two resistors, 1 inductor, and 3 capacitors per side. The total parts cost is $30 - $40/pr depending on the quality of the capacitors used.]

Yes, as Dennis has found out, the speakers can no doubt be improved by throwing more money at them, Ces La Vie
The trick was doing as much as I could at the price I was given. The extra components would not of course cost me that much, but there still had to be a cutoff in what I could spend, but it doesn't stop the purchaser from having a go themselves and seeing what can be done, though of course you will invalidate the warranty...
The point is that the speaker has been engineered to be great value and so has the potential to be tweaked if you choose to do so.

Have fun!

Andrew

Right--and who knows whether I actually improved them. That's why I'm looking for a guinea pig.

 

[KEW]

Dennis;

that's great. If you can show before/after measurements and have a 3rd party validate the sonic improvements, I'd be happy to publish an article for you on our site if you write up the report.

Gene,
If Dennis is willing, would it be possible for you to do the measurements? It just seems ideal that the modded speakers be measured using the same methods and equipment as you used for the stock units.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Gene,
If Dennis is willing, would it be possible for you to do the measurements? It just seems ideal that the modded speakers be measured using the same methods and equipment as you used for the stock units.

This may be turning into more of a production than I had in mind. Let's just wait until a current owner can give his impressions of the before and after.

 

[gene]

This may be turning into more of a production than I had in mind. Let's just wait until a current owner can give his impressions of the before and after.

Good idea.

 

[monkish54]

Gene, PM sent!

 

[bellevegasj]

I just built a 7.1 system with these Pioneer speakers plus an SVS PB-1000 sub powered by a Marantz 5007. I'm still playing with angles, crossover settings etc, but they sound really good to me so far.

I believe that if I'm using a sub, I should cross the the center, sides, surrounds etc over at 80 and let the sub do the rest. Currently I have the 4 bookshelf speakers in the 4 corners of my room with the sub at 3 o'clock relative to the TV, with towers a few inches on either side of the TV. The receiver automatically set the crossovers to 40 for the bookshelves and 60 for the towers after running the auto-calibration.

Anyone have suggestions for me? Placement, crossovers, anything...

Thanks for the article! It helped me make my final decision!

 

[afterlife2]

Lets see a pic of your setup and we'll go from there. For DTS and most setups Fronts 80, center 80, surrounds 60 or 80, sub LFE

 

[bellevegasj]

Lets see a pic of your setup and we'll go from there. For DTS and most setups Fronts 80, center 80, surrounds 60 or 80, sub LFE

Here you go. Not sure how to re-size them. Like I said, I only got this together about a week ago. I still need to move my pc desk over a bit. Not sure what to do about the lamps. I may have to move the one from between the couch and lazy boy so I can have the back speakers facing each other. I'd rather not move the couch up for rear placement, but I'm up for suggestions if it would really make them sound that much better. Also, the satellites at 10:30/1:30, I'm wondering if I need to move them to 9:00/3:00.

Thanks for the help!

 

[afterlife2]

I think the setup looks good. If you could move the desk and space out the front speakers(turn them 90 degree) more and move them at least 5-6 feet from each other. The back surround look good just turn them 90 degree. Not really necessary but If you can move all of them 3-5 inches away from the wall. Take a look at this thread too it will give you some good ideas: http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/pros-joes-systems-gallery/2481-post-your-home-theater-here.html I assume you have no sub?

 

[bellevegasj]

Thanks! I'll check that out.

I have an svs pb-1000. At the 3:00 position currently. In between the couch and lamp.

 

[DundeeScot78]

Hey all,

Amazon has the towers for $86.99, center for $69.99, and bookshelves or $90.99. I just got them all for $335 with free shipping.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

This may be turning into more of a production than I had in mind. Let's just wait until a current owner can give his impressions of the before and after.

I just wanted to close the circle on this. I never sent off my original mods because I was having some consistency problems between the pair of speakers, and in any event I tipped one over and busted a tweeter. So I ordered a third sample, which turned out to measure very differently from either of the original two. As for the stock unit, I can see how people would like these for home theater. The tipped up top end might add to the excitement and make dialogue more intelligible. The issues I have with the upper midrange would be much less noticeable on soundtracks than on heavily scored music selections. For serious music reproduction, however, I just can't get past the blurred nature of the upper midrange and lower treble. I think the large midrange driver is being overtaxed on top, and the tweeter isn't being given enough to do. My add-on circuit does help in this respect, but there are two fatal problems. First, it's just too much trouble to install. I wouldn't wish what I went through on anyone. There isn't enough room to work, and there's too much splicing and dicing. Second, as I mentioned, no two of the 3 samples I bought measured alike. Two were moderately different, and a third was very different. The tweeter was the culprit. It's low end extension and frequency response profile was inconsistent, and that left me without a single target to aim at. One of the tweeters had elevated harmonic distortion and rolled off much sooner than the others. I suspect the inconsistencies stem from nonuniform application of cooling fluid in the voice coil. The speakers still had a similar sonic signature, and I'm not sure you would spot the issue in home theater. But the QC issues are serious enough to discourage me from offering a crossover mod. I ended up replacing the stock tweeters with two venerable Vifa D27 silk domes, which fit perfectly. I adjusted my add-on circuit for the Vifa's, and the speakers now sound pretty much spot on. You can see a frequency response of the new version here: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR speakers are really nice.

The midrange rolls off more steeply, and the highs are flat. Plus, the tweeter performs well lower down to add detail and transparency to the sound. If anyone is interested in buying the result, you can have them for $100 each, which is less than I paid and includes the new tweeters and the extra crossover circuitry. I really don't need any more speakers.

 

[j_garcia]

Dennis, A few questions about these guys then - how's the impedance now, will power handling be similar and do you have any pics of them perhaps?

 

[Jeff R.]

I have a friend looking at a 5 channels system....he already has an HSU sub. I am between recommending the Pioneer system in this thead an the Boston Accoustic A250 tower that is on sale from A4Less in the white finish. He would do 4 towers with a matching center channel. So the BA system is about $450 and the Pioneer will be closer to $400.

What do you you guys think.....I am leaning toward the BA system....I have always liked their sound in previous years. Never hear the Pioneers and the finish looks a little cheap, but maybe that is just the picture on the internet.....

Thanks

Jeff

 

[j_garcia]

I have a friend looking at a 5 channels system....he already has an HSU sub. I am between recommending the Pioneer system in this thead an the Boston Accoustic A250 tower that is on sale from A4Less in the white finish. He would do 4 towers with a matching center channel. So the BA system is about $450 and the Pioneer will be closer to $400.

What do you you guys think.....I am leaning toward the BA system....I have always liked their sound in previous years. Never hear the Pioneers and the finish looks a little cheap, but maybe that is just the picture on the internet.....

The finish is the weak point of the Pioneers IMO, but it isn't exactly hideous and the cabinets are surprisingly solid for this price range. The finish is part of how they can sell them at that price IMO.

 

[afterlife2]

I guess you can always paint them to your color preference. I'd want mine in cherry color. Was there ever a thread on painting speakers here?
Looks pretty decent: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372738/painting-speaker-cabinet#post_21700836

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Dennis, A few questions about these guys then - how's the impedance now, will power handling be similar and do you have any pics of them perhaps?

The impedance is fine. It never goes below 5 ohms and spends most of its time above 6 ohms. Nothing weird going on with the phase angle. The power handling should be the same as the stock in the bass. I didn't do anything to change that. If anything, the overall sound should be cleaner at high volume since the tweeter has less distortion than the stock, and the midrange breakup is further down. I can take a pic, but there's really nothing to see. The tweeter looks identical except that the face plate has 5 screws instead of 4.

 

[Jeff R.]

The finish is the weak point of the Pioneers IMO, but it isn't exactly hideous and the cabinets are surprisingly solid for this price range. The finish is part of how they can sell them at that price IMO.

What do you think about sound quality between the two?