Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 Speaker System Review

[Robert Clark]

I just picked up a pair at Fry's to use as front height speakers. Great price.

 

[afterlife2]

Pardon me If I missed it in your review, but are the 22's and 52's the same tweeters?

 

[macddmac]

Crap! Just gave the kid next door my 22's (for watching the dogs when we were out of town) and now there on sale for 69.00 on amazon!!
Another pair on the way
Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in!
Cheers, Mac

 

[nogaro]

Thanks for the review, Gene. As you're quite familiar with the EMP E-41B, did you have any thoughts on how the BS22 compared to them? I like the tweeter on the E-41b is better than the E55 tweeter - based on brief listening experience.

 

[macddmac]

Bs-22 vs e-41b

Thanks for the review, Gene. As you're quite familiar with the EMP E-41B, did you have any thoughts on how the BS22 compared to them? I like the tweeter on the E-41b is better than the E55 tweeter - based on brief listening experience.

I do, tweeter-wise the they're similar with the e-41b having the edge in crispness / detail. They are identical on first glance, but the pioneer sits in a much deeper waveguide and has a deeper dome.
the 4"BE driver in the emptek is where it really shines.. Just a better all around presentation. In a smaller room, such as my office, the differences aren't as apparent.
These two speakers are great for for smaller rooms, with the emp clearly
(to me) the better of the two. That doesn't mean the pioneer is a slouch, just that I prefer the E-41b.
One other observation, when running test tones for level matching, I noticed that the pioneer was much more efficient. 15 clicks on the denon volume nob (set to 0-100 scale)
Cheers, Mac
ps couldn't rotate picture!

 

[nogaro]

I do, tweeter-wise the they're similar with the e-41b having the edge in crispness / detail. They are identical on first glance, but the pioneer sits in a much deeper waveguide and has a deeper dome.
the 4"BE driver in the emptek is where it really shines.. Just a better all around presentation. In a smaller room, such as my office, the differences aren't as apparent.
These two speakers are great for for smaller rooms, with the emp clearly
(to me) the better of the two. That doesn't mean the pioneer is a slouch, just that I prefer the E-41b.
One other observation, when running test tones for level matching, I noticed that the pioneer was much more efficient. 15 clicks on the denon volume nob (set to 0-100 scale)
Cheers, Mac
ps tried to add a picture of the two speakers but couldn't from iPad

Thanks, macddmac! It's definitely interesting that the difference in efficiency is that significant given that the Pioneers are about average efficiency to begin with. Even if each click only corresponds to 0.25dB, that's almost 4dB! Did you run them full-range?

I just checked the listed specs - the E-41s are 86dB and the BS22 are 85dB!! It is impressive that BS22 tweeter performs as well as the E-41B. I'm not surprised that the woofer didn't match up quite as well. The E-41s woofer was very impressive when I heard it.

 

[macddmac]

I did a quick test-tone check with the rat-shak meter.. The pioneers were at the 70 setting and the Emps needed 85 to hit 75db on the meter.
Could it be the 6 vs 8 ohm nominal impedance ratings? (Denon3313) Don't know.
I ran them with the sub and in pure direct in my 3k cube theater area.
I usually have the Emps in my office (1.2k cubes) and they are unbelievable in there with a 10" sealed sub.
not sure where the pioneers are going.. Mabe the gym but I will never listen to them if they're in there
Cheers, Mac

 

[j_garcia]

I did a quick test-tone check with the rat-shak meter.. The pioneers were at the 70 setting and the Emps needed 85 to hit 75db on the meter.
Could it be the 6 vs 8 ohm nominal impedance ratings? (Denon3313) Don't know.
I ran them with the sub and in pure direct in my 3k cube theater area.
I usually have the Emps in my office (1.2k cubes) and they are unbelievable in there with a 10" sealed sub.
not sure where the pioneers are going.. Mabe the gym but I will never listen to them if they're in there
Cheers, Mac

I'm not sure I get that either? They are almost the same sensitivity and 8 vs 6 Ohms I would not expect to account for a large difference. My A/V-1s are similar in spec as well: 86dB sensitive and 8 ohm, but I did not get a large SPL difference between them in my main system.

 

[macddmac]

I have another pair on the way (I liked them that much) and will redo when they arrive. I'm curious too.
Cheers, Mac

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I got my tower today, and listened, measured, and disassembled. I haven't researched this speaker at all, so I'm just going with what I see. I was surprised to find 3 woofers. The bottom two combine as a unit with the top to form a 2.5 configuration, which is a more complex approach than I would have arrived at if someone handed me the price parameters that Pioneer must have given to A.J. I would have gone with two slightly more expensive woofers in a simple 2-way, and diverted the crossover component cost required for the two sets of woofers to the mid-tweeter cross. But I'm sure there's a reason for the solution A.J. chose. At the this price, I was expecting cheap NP electrolytic caps all around, but the tweeter cap appears to be a mylar at the very least. I measured the speaker on and off axis using two completely different systems--the Liberty Audio Praxis system, and the Parts Express Omni Mic system--different software, different mics. The results were the same, and tracked my listening impressions, and those of the other audio nut present at the time. I also took harmonic distortion readings. I'll use all this to see if I can improve on the peformance without pricing them above the bargain basement.

 

[monkish54]

What did you use to measure the HD?

I'd like to see Klippel of the drivers for shits and giggles. Maybe i'll send my BS-22 drivers to ErinH (if he'd accept them)

 

[croseiv]

This was a very good read, and I am happy to see Pioneer getting back into the game!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

What did you use to measure the HD?

I'd like to see Klippel of the drivers for shits and giggles. Maybe i'll send my BS-22 drivers to ErinH (if he'd accept them)

Just about any decent measurement software will have a THD option. They don't tend to be very accurate in the deep bass, but they are very useful for checking on tweeter performance at the bottom of their pass band. Ribbon tweeters can't be pushed down there, and cheap domes can also run into trouble. I used the Omni Mic for this particular measurement because it's so simple.

 

[KEW]

I was surprised to find 3 woofers. The bottom two combine as a unit with the top to form a 2.5 configuration.

Thanks! I was wondering about that.

Please check my logic/inferences:

The two lower woofers don't move much compared to the upper one, so I gather the two lower woofers are together producing the same bass signal as the single upper?
It seems strange to "burden" the mid-range woofer with so much of the bass signal when you have two other dedicated woofers available.
Does playing the lower frequencies make it harder for the driver to maintain detail in the mid-range?
In the end, the proof is in the pudding and these speakers sound awfully good for the price. I feel the bass is exceptional, because it is a rare speaker at this price point that did not choose to tune the port for a "bass hump" in the FR.

I'll use all this to see if I can improve on the peformance without pricing them above the bargain basement.

Less cost for mods is always better, but don't be too frugal, if you think you can gain solid improvements!
As I see it, these are $100 ea (typical sale price) speakers that compete favorably with $275 ea (I made that number up, but you get the idea).
If you can make them competitive with $375 speakers for an extra $100 (doubling the net price), that still gives owners a worthwhile stepping stone (that is still a bargain) as they are working towards their "final" system.
I know you are an accountant, so already see this, but my point is that since you are starting with such an incredible bargain, you have extra wiggle room (IMHO).

 

[monkish54]

The two lower woofers don't move much compared to the upper one, so I gather the two lower woofers are together producing the same bass signal as the single upper?

The lower two woofers are playing 250hz and below. The upper midwoofer is playing 3khz and below. The tweeter is playing from 3khz up to 20khz.

It seems strange to "burden" the mid-range woofer with so much of the bass signal when you have two other dedicated woofers available.

I think the reason Andrew went with a 2.5 way was to handle the BSC without reducing sensitivity. These are very cheap speakers. The target consumer is not going to have very much power on hand (the speaker couldn't handle it anyway) so every bit of sensitivity is precious. The speaker is only 87db at 2.83V, much lower and those tiny little amps wont be able to drive them very loud.

Does playing the lower frequencies make it harder for the driver to maintain detail in the mid-range?

For this specific driver...probably. For, say, this driver:

http://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/15wu-4741t00.pdf

probably not...

Here is my logic:

A speaker doesn't truly play a specific frequency at any one time. It simply moves in and out based on the interaction between the magnetic field created by an alternating current running through the voice coil, and the permanent magnet. When asked to play a specific song an amplifier send along a current form of the waveform.

Something like this. You can think of the X-axis as time, and the Y-axis as direction of cone excursion.

Detail is achieved simply by moving the cone in such a way as to create as close to the original waveform as possible. This is much harder than it sounds. Electromagnetism likes to give us problems. Problems like eddy currents, inductance, back EMF (back voltage; back potential difference) etc. Physics likes to give us problems such as cone breakup (resonance modes), driver resonance, etc.

With the Pioneer drivers, I'd imagine the suspension isn't very advanced/linear. I'd guess the suspension is much more stiff on one side. I'd also imagine the motor isn't very advanced/linear, resulting in high inductance, low Bl as VC leaves gap, etc. All things you see on cheaper drivers (and some expensive drivers )

If you take a look at the Illuminator's little brother:

http://medleysmusings.com/scan-speak-illuminator-12mu4731t-00/

You'd realize the Illuminator drivers can handle a GREAT deal of Xmax while remaining incredibly linear.

In laymen terms, the Pioneers will move a bit wonky when asked to produce large amounts of excursion limiting detail, while the Illuminator will move in a very linear fashion.

*Do note there are other considerations when thinking about detail and timbre/neutrality. Usable range, harmonic distortion, on and off-axis FR, cone breakup all have factors in detail and linearity. This explanation was really focusing on linearity vs excursion as that is the major factor when asking a driver to play low vs mid frequencies.

 

[vlad335]

I'll use all this to see if I can improve on the peformance without pricing them above the bargain basement.

Go Man, go! Definitely looking forward to what you come up with.

I first bought the Bs22's and was very pleased with them. These are in my computer setup with an Indeed Class T amp and 8" DIY tangband sub. Phenomenal sounding system and not just for the money.

Intrigued, picked up the towers and soon after the center channel and folded them into my home theater setup. Powered by an Adcom 7500 amp these are surprisingly good and replaced much more expensive loudspeakers. Obviously Mr. Jones had to make compromises at the price point of these so no doubt you can take them up a couple notches.

Any thoughts on you designing with replacement drivers and/or tweeter as well as a redesigned crossover? The cabinets seem to be a solid foundation and I'm sure the driver selection in these Pioneers had to be a significant compromise for budget constraints.

Once again, really looking forward to your writeup.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Go Man, go! Definitely looking forward to what you come up with.

I first bought the Bs22's and was very pleased with them. These are in my computer setup with an Indeed Class T amp and 8" DIY tangband sub. Phenomenal sounding system and not just for the money.

Intrigued, picked up the towers and soon after the center channel and folded them into my home theater setup. Powered by an Adcom 7500 amp these are surprisingly good and replaced much more expensive loudspeakers. Obviously Mr. Jones had to make compromises at the price point of these so no doubt you can take them up a couple notches.

Any thoughts on you designing with replacement drivers and/or tweeter as well as a redesigned crossover? The cabinets seem to be a solid foundation and I'm sure the driver selection in these Pioneers had to be a significant compromise for budget constraints.

Once again, really looking forward to your writeup.

I hope to get to these later this week. Just out of curiosity, how did you think the towers compared with the Bs22 over the common frequencies they share--say above 70 Hz?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Forgot to mention that I definitely don't intend to get into replacement drivers. If I don't think the stock ones are good enough to work with, I'll throw in the towel. This has to be a simple, cost-effective mod, if I can come up with one.

 

[vlad335]

I hope to get to these later this week. Just out of curiosity, how did you think the towers compared with the Bs22 over the common frequencies they share--say above 70 Hz?

Its hard to say because I am using these in two different setups. The BS22 with a Chinese Indeed Class T amp is simply outstanding in the nearfield. They are 3 feet apart and a foot in front of me on ear level desk stands. Crystal clear midrange and a joy to listen to. Previously, I had Klipsch Promedia 2.1 speakers, Behringer 2031P monitors and KEF Q60's in this setup and these little Pioneers smoke them all. On sale at times for $69, these are the best audio deal of the century IMHO.

Sorry to say I havent done extensive critical listening to the FS52 and center channel. They are being asked to fill a great deal more space and are receiving a good deal more power. Plus the room I have them in is somewhat of a black hole for Hifi. I am very limited on placement as well.

Part of the not doing critical listening has to do with getting sucked into whatever material playing so that is may be a plus in these speakers favor. Replaced my DIY subs at the same time with a pair of SVS's and I am really digging them and tend to gravitate to listening to what they are doing as well.

I will say that when I run EmoQ on the Emotiva UMC-1, it wants to significantly roll off the high end of the towers starting at 8k. I dont believe listening to these speakers that they are that hot in these frequencies but EmoQ consistently does this. ( Reflections maybe) I did notch these frequencies back up to flat.

IMO the midrange and the highs are not as fluid and clear as the bookshelves. The mids can get slightly shouty with high level playback and these speakers tend to compress with loud passages. Mind you, I am talking VERY loud levels from BD's and I have to remind myself that these are $100 towers that are being asked to perform a miracle in this space. However, I think the one downside to these towers is reproducing dynamics. These towers are not the most responsive and dynamic in playback that I have heard. On the other hand, when pushed real hard the Pioneers don't make bad noises... they just kinda bow out which I think is amazing in itself.

I bet if I hooked up the towers to my computer setup they would sound even better than the BS22's in the nearfield. I suspect that I am hitting the limitations of the drivers, more than likely the tweeter. ( Appears to be the same tweeter in all these speakers.)

Would like to add the levels in playback I reference above are severe. I wouldn't play movies this loud say, if the in-laws come over.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Here's a progress report on my experiences with the FS52 towers and attempts to work up a mod. It's very tricky for me to say much about the sound of the stock version, since I have a conflict of interest. I'll just say that you get a heck of a lot of speaker for the money, but there are some things you just can't do (even if you're Andrew Jones) and still come in on budget. The 2.5 configuration adds to the complexity and cost. After listening to the speaker carefully, measuring it, tracing through the stock crossover, modeling it, and futzing, my opinion is that it would take more components to get the midrange out of the way sooner and to let the tweeter handle more of the chore in the lower treble. It's not exactly a state-of-the-art tweeter, and it needs to be rolled off fairly sharply to avoid overloading, but I think I was able to improve the clarity and presence of the speaker by reshaping the tweeter response and using a steeper roll-off slope on the midrange to get its breakup mode (which is not all that severe) suppressed further. I used the top of the cabinet as the design axis to avoid a crossover suckout at the normal listening position, which would be above the tweeter axis on this short tower. I also voiced the tweeter down so that it was flat with the midrange except for a peak at 15 kHz that I couldn't get rid of. My approach was to keep the stock crossover as is, and to simply add an additional circuit for ease of modification and economy. I added two resistors, 1 inductor, and 3 capacitors per side. The total parts cost is $30 - $40/pr depending on the quality of the capacitors used. I have to document everything and get someone to try out a Beta pair before I make the design available. Any current owners of 52's that would like to try out a pair for me to make sure the changes I've made are really going to make owners happy? The closer to Washington, D.C., the better. I'll pay shipping both ways if it's not too far.