Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 Speaker System Review

[Dennis Murphy]

Hi. I'll see what I find. Since I am technically a competitor of Pioneer (harrrdee har har), I certainly won't blast them for anything. BTW, I have the DATS system too, and TS parameters don't help with crossover design--they're for box size and tuning.

 

[monkish54]

BTW, I have the DATS system too, and TS parameters don't help with crossover design--they're for box size and tuning.

Haha I know, i just really wanted to use it.

 

[zieglj01]

What 5dB peak at 4.5kHz? There is a gradual rise in HF around 5kHz peaking 5dB at 14kHz. Padding the tweeter down a couple of dB would probably be the most one would want to do to tame the HF energy a bit. I can understand why AJ chose to voice the tower a bit hot since its so short and the listener will typically have their ear level higher than the speaker. Also in this price point, most people shop for boom and sizzle at department stores.

That is a good tower speaker >>
I heard No real sibilance problem with the towers - and sibilance distracts and annoys me. Also, no annoying peaks.

 

[zieglj01]

I didn't get a good listen to the towers in BB, but I don't hear this peak being discussed on the BS22s.

The towers are a good speaker - however, my preference is still the BS22

 

[panteragstk]

The towers are a good speaker - however, my preference is still the BS22

Curious as to why you prefer the bookshelves over the towers. If I missed that in the original thread I apologize.

 

[zieglj01]

Curious as to why you prefer the bookshelves over the towers. If I missed that in the original thread I apologize.

The BS22 sounds overall more smooth and balanced compared to the FS52 > Now while the FS52 has more radiating surface
area than the BS22, there is not a major difference from the BS22 bass limitation on up. The FS52 has a little more depth in
the bass, however a subwoofer can pick up from that area. The difference I find is that with the BS22, I feel that I am sitting
a little further back - and with the FS52, I am sitting closer up front. For the price, these speakers are real good - I just wish
that they had a little more definition.

It is not easy to find some speakers on a tight budget, that can compete with the likes of Cambridge Audio S30, HTD Level
Two bookshelves, or the Pioneer phase 2 series. However, still no guarantee that some people will like/hear the same way.

 

[zieglj01]

Pioneer BS22 - Amazon

Click on - see the price in the cart - it should read $69.00
Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers: Electronics

 

[panteragstk]

The BS22 sounds overall more smooth and balanced compared to the FS52 > Now while the FS52 has more radiating surface
area than the BS22, there is not a major difference from the BS22 bass limitation on up. The FS52 has a little more depth in
the bass, however a subwoofer can pick up from that area. The difference I find is that with the BS22, I feel that I am sitting
a little further back - and with the FS52, I am sitting closer up front. For the price, these speakers are real good - I just wish
that they had a little more definition.

It is not easy to find some speakers on a tight budget, that can compete with the likes of Cambridge Audio S30, HTD Level
Two bookshelves, or the Pioneer phase 2 series. However, still no guarantee that some people will like/hear the same way.

I agree with the HDT level 2's being pretty great. Huge soundstage when I auditioned them at their office. I need to take my pioneers up there like I say I'm going to, but I haven't had time yet. I like the pioneers, but I feel like their soundstage is a bit lacking. Having said that, with the level 2's being twice as much (even though they are still "cheap") I'd expect them to be considerably better than the pioneers. I'll try to post my thoughts next week if I have time to compare.

 

[panteragstk]

Pioneer BS22 - Amazon

Click on - see the price in the cart - it should read $69.00
Amazon.com: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR Andrew Jones Designed Bookshelf Loudspeakers: Electronics

I feel like you're trying to get me in trouble. That's a really good deal. What do you think the minimum wattage for those would be? That would be a pretty sweet computer speaker system.

 

[j_garcia]

I feel like you're trying to get me in trouble. That's a really good deal. What do you think the minimum wattage for those would be? That would be a pretty sweet computer speaker system.

They play fine with most anything. I've had them on 4 different amp/systems from 200W to 24W and they sound great on all of them At that price, I might have to grab a second pair.

 

[afterlife2]

Darn I guess I missed it. My cart showing 129. Frump. Well I just listened to the Beatles song and It has sibilance on my speakers too. I'm guessing it was recorded like that in the studio. If anybody wants to check the song Is called Till There Was You.

 

[zieglj01]

Darn I guess I missed it. My cart showing 129. Frump. Well I just listened to the Beatles song and It has sibilance on my speakers too. I'm guessing it was recorded like that in the studio. If anybody wants to check the song Is called Till There Was You.

Their recordings were not engineered with audiophile mentality in mind. Good speakers can/will
reveal poor recordings. Also, that is not the only Beatles song recorded poorly.

 

[AndrewJ]

You are looking at the wrong graph. The Grille on/off measurement was done at 1/2 meter just to more accurately show the losses associated with the grille. At that distance, the speaker doesn't fully integrate into its actual farfield response. If you look at the 1 meter graph, there is no peak at 4.5kHz like you keep suggesting. As I stated earlier in this thread and in the review, it would have been nice to pad the tweeter down 1-2dB but a new crossover design is NOT necessary. I am confident that AJ knows what he is doing with his designs and he has done a commendable job at this price point.

Hi Everyone.
Gene asked me for my comments on this thread, so here goes. I'm not here to promote my speaker, or to make judgements about anyones preferences, but I can comment on some of the findings.
As Gene says, with grill off there is no very strong peak at 4.5kHz. What response variation exits is not a driver resonance either, it is due to diffraction. It changes with measurement angle and distance. Even 1m is not sufficient distance for all the drivers to fully integrate, and diffraction response will also change not just with angle but with distance.
At 4.5kHz, the upper woofer is acoustically nearly 15dB down, so the major contributor is the tweeter (and grille). At 15 and 30 deg off axis horizontally, the response smooths out.
These localised diffraction response anomolies should never be equalized out in the xover. You will create many more problems with the sound than you are attempting to fix. This is one of the perils of DSP speaker equalization: the temptation to measure at one angle and create an inverse correction curve. Very bad idea!
Now, I made my design decisions and compromises to make the speaker available at this price point. I don't pretend that everyone will agree with all my decisions. That's OK, and I welcome such discussions on forums such as these. Could the speaker be better? Of course it could. Would it cost more? Of course it would. Could you design your own network to make the speaker more to your taste? Of course you could. Would it cost you nearly as much as the original cost of the complete speaker? Well, I think you can guess my answer
While I cannot officially encourage you to pull it apart and experiment, as it would void the warranty, this is a DIY forum, we all enjoy the hobby and experimenting. If you have the ability and inclintion, have at it, I won't be offended (no, really, truly ).

Andrew Jones

 

[KEW]

Thanks for chiming in Andrew!
I have a few questions if you can comfortably answer them:
1) What would you consider the weakest point of the 52FS
2) Many of us are wondering what you could do with a larger (say, $500 to $1000) budget. Do you see this on the horizon?
3) When I compared the FS52 against much more expensive speakers I am blown away with the "presence" of the FS52 in the high frequencies without fatigue. However, woman's vocals (like Rikki Lee Jones) are not as full on the FS52 as the more expensive speakers. Can you comment on what I am hearing in terms of measured parameters? (for the benefit of others, IME, the BS22 did not seem to have this dramatic effect in the high frequencies)

I understand if your relation with Pioneer might prohibit you from saying what is bad about them, but had to ask!

 

[HTKamikazee]

You are looking at the wrong graph. The Grille on/off measurement was done at 1/2 meter just to more accurately show the losses associated with the grille. At that distance, the speaker doesn't fully integrate into its actual farfield response. If you look at the 1 meter graph, there is no peak at 4.5kHz like you keep suggesting. As I stated earlier in this thread and in the review, it would have been nice to pad the tweeter down 1-2dB but a new crossover design is NOT necessary. I am confident that AJ knows what he is doing with his designs and he has done a commendable job at this price point.

Amen!!!

 

[HTKamikazee]

I'm not seeing the issue at 4.5 kHz either, and I'm not really expecting to find problems serious enough to fix in a budget speaker. I'm mainly interested in seeing how AJ did what he did for about the cost of the crossover components in the woofer circuit of a pair of my speakers.

He definitely focused on the quality of the internals instead of looks. He sure knocked this one out of the park with these babies. If this wasn't the case, we wouldn't be amazed by them and talking so much about them. And for their cost, they are just unbelievable and unbeatable. I bought (3) FS52's but I gave them to my brother. Now, I'm trying to get my hands on (3$ FD52's again instead of the traditional (2) towers & (1) center. That may be the best way to go

 

[afterlife2]

22's BaCK ON SALE AT AMAZON FOR $75 SHIPPED.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Hi Everyone.
Gene asked me for my comments on this thread, so here goes. I'm not here to promote my speaker, or to make judgements about anyones preferences, but I can comment on some of the findings.
As Gene says, with grill off there is no very strong peak at 4.5kHz. What response variation exits is not a driver resonance either, it is due to diffraction. It changes with measurement angle and distance. Even 1m is not sufficient distance for all the drivers to fully integrate, and diffraction response will also change not just with angle but with distance.
At 4.5kHz, the upper woofer is acoustically nearly 15dB down, so the major contributor is the tweeter (and grille). At 15 and 30 deg off axis horizontally, the response smooths out.
These localised diffraction response anomolies should never be equalized out in the xover. You will create many more problems with the sound than you are attempting to fix. This is one of the perils of DSP speaker equalization: the temptation to measure at one angle and create an inverse correction curve. Very bad idea!
Now, I made my design decisions and compromises to make the speaker available at this price point. I don't pretend that everyone will agree with all my decisions. That's OK, and I welcome such discussions on forums such as these. Could the speaker be better? Of course it could. Would it cost more? Of course it would. Could you design your own network to make the speaker more to your taste? Of course you could. Would it cost you nearly as much as the original cost of the complete speaker? Well, I think you can guess my answer
While I cannot officially encourage you to pull it apart and experiment, as it would void the warranty, this is a DIY forum, we all enjoy the hobby and experimenting. If you have the ability and inclintion, have at it, I won't be offended (no, really, truly ).

Andrew Jones

What you have accomplished here is simply amazing. You have set a benchmark in the industry. Because of the tremendous success with your SP-PK52FS speaker line, does Pioneer have any plans on a mid price product line, like a $800 -$1200 tower, $500-$800 Center, $500 - $600 surround? I think we would be all intrigued what performance you could squeeze out.

BTW, welcome to the forum.

 

[zieglj01]

The word is that Fry's has the BS22 on sale for $69, in-store till March 7

 

[j_garcia]

I don't see them on their site, I will have to drop by today and see if they have them. They show the C22 and FS52s on the site.