Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 Speaker System Review

[afterlife2]

Oh man this will be very exciting and I'd look forward to it TLS If you do.

 

[KEW]

That is a really interesting review. It looks as if they just miss being a great speaker. That 5db peak at 4.5 kHz is very unfortunate though. That is right in the sibilance band and quite honestly must be annoying. I suspect it is a woofer break up mode after the crossover not properly tamed. The higher peak will not be nearly as damaging.

I would have thought a crossover mod would take care of this. For very little increase in price this could be taken care of I think,hhhhhh and would add a disproportionate increase in listening pleasure for the small added cost. I'm tempted to buy a pair and publish the crossover mod. Those speakers invite a tinker, as the mid band is phenomenal at that price. They seem to me to be ripe for a DIY upgrade.

I think you are probably right about the 4.5 kHz peak being the biggest detractor of thes speakers. However, listening to other speakers anywhere close in price, this is the lesser of evils!
It would be great if you could come up with a mod to resolve this!
I'd be happy to send you one of mine!
At this price, there are a lot out there, and I would think a way to "upgrade" without having to buy substantially more expensive speakers would be welcomed by many enthuiasts.

 

[gene]

That is a really interesting review. It looks as if they just miss being a great speaker. That 5db peak at 4.5 kHz is very unfortunate though. That is right in the sibilance band and quite honestly must be annoying. I suspect it is a woofer break up mode after the crossover not properly tamed. The higher peak will not be nearly as damaging.

I would have thought a crossover mod would take care of this. For very little increase in price this could be taken care of I think,hhhhhh and would add a disproportionate increase in listening pleasure for the small added cost. I'm tempted to buy a pair and publish the crossover mod. Those speakers invite a tinker, as the mid band is phenomenal at that price. They seem to me to be ripe for a DIY upgrade.

What 5dB peak at 4.5kHz? There is a gradual rise in HF around 5kHz peaking 5dB at 14kHz. Padding the tweeter down a couple of dB would probably be the most one would want to do to tame the HF energy a bit. I can understand why AJ chose to voice the tower a bit hot since its so short and the listener will typically have their ear level higher than the speaker. Also in this price point, most people shop for boom and sizzle at department stores.

 

[monkish54]

Would anyone be interested in seeing the T/S of the BS-22 drivers?

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Room correction like Audyssey will also flatten high end response. I'm not saying that have a flat response to begin with isn't best, but there are other items in a typical HT chain which can deal with frequency response. Other things, like distortion-free output, can't be EQ'd in.

 

[TLS Guy]

What 5dB peak at 4.5kHz? There is a gradual rise in HF around 5kHz peaking 5dB at 14kHz. Padding the tweeter down a couple of dB would probably be the most one would want to do to tame the HF energy a bit. I can understand why AJ chose to voice the tower a bit hot since its so short and the listener will typically have their ear level higher than the speaker. Also in this price point, most people shop for boom and sizzle at department stores.

One would have to look into it closely, it seems there are two defined peaks. I'm very suspicious that there is a break up mode peak from the woofers involved in the first peak.

This would explain the reports of not liking them pushed hard. I suspect the tweeter is being cut off early to try and minimize the situation and this is why you have the second output rise. I'm guessing here but these are my suspicions.

If there is indeed a rising response from the woofer and it where dealt with then the tweeter could be crossed lower and padded down correctly and the response would be better over all. The two humped camel type pattern in the response is what makes me suspicious that the root cause here actually lies with the woofer.

Afterlife 2 was having a lot of trouble with disc reproduction with these speakers before he lost them to Hurricane Sandy. He was complaining bitterly of sibilance I thought may be he had a cartridge loading problem. I made him cables of varying capacitance, but it did not help. I now realize the cause of his problem.

I put together a system with JW 4" full range drivers. My final version of the Mark II driver before going on to the Mk 3. These speakers are not sibilant, but do not lack sparkle. He his over the moon with this system. So it really took a change of speakers to solve his problem. This original design is over 50 years old! His speakers are about 40 years old.

So even though these Pioneers are at a very affordable price, I would say they need recommending with caution in their present form. I think I would likely find them very irritating and be happier listening to a old table radio.

 

[HTKamikazee]

What 5dB peak at 4.5kHz? There is a gradual rise in HF around 5kHz peaking 5dB at 14kHz. Padding the tweeter down a couple of dB would probably be the most one would want to do to tame the HF energy a bit. I can understand why AJ chose to voice the tower a bit hot since its so short and the listener will typically have their ear level higher than the speaker. Also in this price point, most people shop for boom and sizzle at department stores.

I got lost for a second there when looking at the graphs searching for that 5dB peak at 4.5Khz.

 

[TLS Guy]

I think you are probably right about the 4.5 kHz peak being the biggest detractor of thes speakers. However, listening to other speakers anywhere close in price, this is the lesser of evils!
It would be great if you could come up with a mod to resolve this!
I'd be happy to send you one of mine!
At this price, there are a lot out there, and I would think a way to "upgrade" without having to buy substantially more expensive speakers would be welcomed by many enthuiasts.

I have about eight weeks hard graft to get through cataract surgery (yes another geriatric problem) and I'll think about it.

 

[TLS Guy]

Room correction like Audyssey will also flatten high end response. I'm not saying that have a flat response to begin with isn't best, but there are other items in a typical HT chain which can deal with frequency response. Other things, like distortion-free output, can't be EQ'd in.

Most loudspeaker ills are not amenable to Eq, as they are associated with retained energy. In fact attempting Eq can lead to poorer overall SQ.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Enough speculation. I have one coming and I'll let you know whether it needs fixing, and if so, whether it's cost-effective to implement.

 

[monkish54]

Enough speculation. I have one coming and I'll let you know whether it needs fixing, and if so, whether it's cost-effective to implement.

Do you want the T/S parameters?

Someone let me use my damn DATS system! xD

 

[TLS Guy]

Enough speculation. I have one coming and I'll let you know whether it needs fixing, and if so, whether it's cost-effective to implement.

Let's hope it does not make the crossover cost as much as the speaker! Hopefully not.

From my experience with Afterlife 2 it will need fixing.

 

[GO-NAD!]

That is a really interesting review. It looks as if they just miss being a great speaker. That 5db peak at 4.5 kHz is very unfortunate though.

What 5dB peak at 4.5kHz? There is a gradual rise in HF around 5kHz peaking 5dB at 14kHz. Padding the tweeter down a couple of dB would probably be the most one would want to do to tame the HF energy a bit. I can understand why AJ chose to voice the tower a bit hot since its so short and the listener will typically have their ear level higher than the speaker. Also in this price point, most people shop for boom and sizzle at department stores.

I have about eight weeks hard graft to get through cataract surgery (yes another geriatric problem) and I'll think about it.

Anyone else see a disconnect here?

Doc, are you referring to the grill/no grill graph? I can see a rise there, although it doesn't look that high to me. Would simply facing the speakers straight ahead, rather than angling towards the listening position help mitigate this?

 

[TLS Guy]

Anyone else see a disconnect here?

Doc, are you referring to the grill/no grill graph? I can see a rise there, although it doesn't look that high to me. Would simply facing the speakers straight ahead, rather than angling towards the listening position help mitigate this?

The sensitivity is quoted as 87 db, which if you reference that spl versus frequency is correct. Grill on it is about 4db up at 4.5 kHz grill on and about 5 db up grill off. Either way, that is enough to produce sibilance.

With grill on it is back to around 87 db at 7 to 8 kHz, and then rises to about +7 db at 12 kHz. However it is the smaller earlier rise that is in the sibilance band.

 

[afterlife2]

TLS I lost the Beatles LP in the storm, but I found a CD copy last night. Will report back If It happens on my precious Jordan Watts Juliet's.

 

[j_garcia]

I didn't get a good listen to the towers in BB, but I don't hear this peak being discussed on the BS22s.

 

[gene]

The sensitivity is quoted as 87 db, which if you reference that spl versus frequency is correct. Grill on it is about 4db up at 4.5 kHz grill on and about 5 db up grill off. Either way, that is enough to produce sibilance.

With grill on it is back to around 87 db at 7 to 8 kHz, and then rises to about +7 db at 12 kHz. However it is the smaller earlier rise that is in the sibilance band.

You are looking at the wrong graph. The Grille on/off measurement was done at 1/2 meter just to more accurately show the losses associated with the grille. At that distance, the speaker doesn't fully integrate into its actual farfield response. If you look at the 1 meter graph, there is no peak at 4.5kHz like you keep suggesting. As I stated earlier in this thread and in the review, it would have been nice to pad the tweeter down 1-2dB but a new crossover design is NOT necessary. I am confident that AJ knows what he is doing with his designs and he has done a commendable job at this price point.

 

[j_garcia]

I would have expected if there was something audible in there, it would have been noted in the review and these things probably wouldn't get quite as much praise as they do. (I'm still curious about Dennis's take on them )

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I'm not seeing the issue at 4.5 kHz either, and I'm not really expecting to find problems serious enough to fix in a budget speaker. I'm mainly interested in seeing how AJ did what he did for about the cost of the crossover components in the woofer circuit of a pair of my speakers.

 

[monkish54]

I'm not seeing the issue at 4.5 kHz either, and I'm not really expecting to find problems serious enough to fix in a budget speaker. I'm mainly interested in seeing how AJ did what he did for about the cost of the crossover components in the woofer circuit of a pair of my speakers.

It's the waveguide.

Haha Just kidding, of course.

I'd like to pick his head about the driver design. These are really cheap drivers but they perform very well. I'd like to hear what compromises he made to reduce driver cost. For one they aren't quite beryllium..

Will you be sharing your finding?