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Discussion in 'Loudspeakers' started by admin, Feb 26, 2013.
Food for thought
NEWS FLASH: Pioneer Downsizing Key Employees?
I tried to email Andrew Jones today for a tech question and received the following auto-reply.
Effective February 13, 2015, Andrew Jones is no longer with Pioneer Electronics, but he is still involved in several current Pioneer projects.
The same announcement for Chris Walker as well.
Looks like the Dolby Atmos speaker didn't save the day
WOW! Just WOW.
I guess that means he's not with TAD any longer either?
I doubt that he will be jobless for very long.
I'm curious if this is the first of the fallout from the Onkyo deal?
A lot of Japan companies seem to have fallen on hard times.
Bluetooth, cellphones and apps, tend to dominate.
Budget AV systems seem to be the public main focus.
Somebody will pick up Andrew
Yen is weak right now AND I'd expect some refocus from the Onkyo deal, but to lose someone who was probably helping that audio brand seems like a mistake. Possible he left for another opportunity as well.
Andrew is a talented guy. He will surely find work.
Yes I think the Onkyo acquisition of Pioneer will not do any favors to the home division of the company. Pioneer seems to be focusing now more on car audio which Bose and Harman already dominates. Sad to see another great audio company going under like this.
Hey now, I think you forgot about the Pio DJ controller division. Unless something has changed recently, they are still a huge player in that market.
Re Post # 140: All soft dome tweeters roll off above 10k? Well, not the ones I've measured. And certainly not the Pioneers. I've measure probably 100 of them from the 22's, 52's, and center channel. They all have a big peak at 15 khz. The 52's peak is around 7 dB. The 22 is a couple of dB lower, and the center's peak is the least pronounced. The Dayton measurement system isn't accurate above 10 kHz. It shows a roll off on every tweeter I've tested, including the Pioneers.
Re Andrew Jones: Ruh Oh--looks like I better find another cheap speaker to mod. Dayton T650 towers anyone?
I may be interested in a modded version.
Did you get them yet Dennis? If yes thoughts so far?
Hmmmm--why can't I find the reply with quote option? Anyhow, I got them, listened, took a measurement of one, and I'll take some more measurements shortly to see whether a mod is practical. They're actually a pretty clever design, although "design" is stretching the point. Like the smaller versions, the "crossover" is a cheap cap on the tweeter. But the octave-to-octave balance is quite good, and the midrange is less colored than on the Pioneer 52. Bass goes down to about 60 Hz, with some obvious cabinet resonance boom. On simple material, and for short duration listening, they can sound quite good. But--the woofers are ringing like bells and are the main treble you hear. That shows up very clearly in the measurements--big resonant peak at 5 kHz surrounded by dips on either side. So you ain't gonna want to listen to an orchestra at high volume for very long. The issue is whether it's possible to trap out the ringing without using crossover parts that are as expensive as the speakers, and whether the little tweeter will have enough output at the bottom end to fill in for the smoothed-out woofers. .
I was quite surprised how good they were myself with Jazz. I'm looking forward to what you come up with the ringing, which I'm not familiar with until you mentioned it to be honest.
I hope someone is still watching this thread,
I bought the Pioneer FS-52s, the SP-C22, and the SW-8MK2. I have yet to buy the SP-BS22-LR, I'm using some no name towers I had as surrounds for now.
My receiver is a Onkyo TX-NR646.
I set up the crossovers to 80Hz for all the Pioneers and 100Hz for the surrounds since the drivers are so small. I'm using the LFE for the SW-8MK2 set at 120Hz (max on my receiver). I've been consuming a mix of streaming video (Netflix, Hulu, etc.), streaming music (Spotify, Apple Music, etc.), and gaming on an XboxOne S. I've been happy with the sound in my semi-open 2600 cu-ft living room.
Recently, I found the AccuEQ mic for my TX-NR646. So I plugged it up to see what results it would produce. It got all my distances spot on. I've measured them myself previously. However, it crossover my towers at 50Hz, center at 70Hz, and surrounds at 90Hz. I immediately thought this was wrong and manually set everything back. Much reading had me convinced that 80Hz was the way to go.
After reading this article it seems that the towers are tuned to 50HZ with the center at 70Hz. So was AccuEQ correct? Should I give it a listen, or stick with 80Hz?
You have to understand that it also plays around with the individual EQ for each speaker too. It sets them maybe lower than you expected and then applies EQ to smooth them out, so yes it is probably correct. Don't look at the settings at first, just listen. If you don't like it, then make adjustments to suit your taste.
Thanks for the speedy reply. I looked at the crossovers and the levels, but I didn't look at the EQ. I automatically assumed it was wrong due to many complaints about AccuEQ vs Audyseey. I'll run AccuEQ again, then give it a listen.
I'll also test with higher quality sources (vinyl, Blu Ray, CD, etc.)
My Pre uses a proprietary EQ and it does some things I don't agree with also, but the end result does seem to be that it does a decent job. So it isn't always perfect in terms of what our preferences might be or what we think we hear, but knowing what the system "thinks" is correct is a good starting point to tweak from.
I got the kids and the wife to be quiet for 10 mins while I ran AccuEQ. I put a camera tripod on my couch in the 'sweet spot' with the mic sitting at about ear level... ish. AccuEQ produced pretty much the same results I discarded previously. I then switched to 2.1 to listen to some music. I grabbed a handful of CDs to listen.
Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze" and "Foxy Lady" had a detail to them that I don't think I've ever noticed before. Sticking with this CD I played Jimi's "National Anthem" and WOW! I never noticed that there's a drummer playing rapid kicks and snare trills in the background.
I wasn't listening at a loud level. Sadly, my receiver only displays relative volume and not dB level. Turned up to about 40, which is where my family normally has it for family TV watching, I was impressed.
I then switched to movies and 5.1. I played the opening scene from "The Lion King" on Blu-Ray (DTS-MA), which was apropos being I just saw the play at the Fox, Atlanta with the misses. There was so much more immersion in sound. Birds flying by head, and elephants making my bookshelf shake. I tested again with "Rio" on Blu-Ray. The opening scene had me forgetting I was at home and not at my local Regal RPX.
There's still more testing to do. All of my TV watching is on streaming services, then there's also video games to test.
So far so good,