Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

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Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Your still pretty smart there ADTG, and last time I looked you had more than a couple little 5" cone drivers in each front tower!! -- you know Sound Quality, ADTG. :D

Heck even my KLIPSCH have a couple 8" Drivers!
You do realize the size of the drivers do not a good speaker make, right? Who am i kidding...you probably actually didnt know that. ;)

I'd still put my dual TC2000's with 2500 each against your quad subs you claim to have. I say claim because I have a pm in which you said you had two subs. Regardless, mine will still win I'd bet. You obviously have no idea who TC is. Actually, there seems to be a lot you dont know, which must be why you throw out useless stats, such as cabinet volume and driver size, as if that makes a good sounding speaker. Is there something wrong with you...you know, in the mind? You've been corrected and proven wrong dozens of times but dont seem to "get it." I'd feel terrible giving someone who is mentally challenged a hard time, even if it is in good fun. I truly apologize if you're handycapped.

P.S. Those 8 inch drivers dont stop your Klipsch's from sounding like crap, so... :)
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
You do realize the size of the drivers do not a good speaker make, right?
Wow.. it surely shows your Small Character and Drivers inclusive. Are you just a "Salk Surfer" - a person who surfs around and audition hundreds of expensive speakers and always claims that his Salk speakers sound better. :)

That says it all -- tell that to Def. Tech./Paradigm/B&W/Focal/ and foremost Klipsch!:D

Your obvisouly the one that never graduated in Engr. and that clearly says it ALL.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Your still pretty smart there ADTG, and last time I looked you had more than a couple little 5" cone drivers in each front tower!! -- you know Sound Quality, ADTG. :D
The only speakers ADTG has that are significantly more dynamic than the Song towers are the very pricy 10k+ Revels. The infinities might be comparable to the song towers though.

Let's start with the orions.

They're an Open Baffle speaker, so efficiency below ~500hz is greatly compromised. There is a single 8" midwoofer running from 120hz to 1.4khz. In free air it is effectively very low Q as it is - qtc < .4 which means it is already 1db down from stated sensitivity at 120hz (the crossover frequency)

The baffle width also creates dipole rolloff of 6db/oct starting somewhere from 300hz to 500hz (i could go and calculate it but no I won't). That means even if the volume displacement (Sd x xmax) of the driver allows for, say, 116db with 1000w input power @ its -6db cutoff point of 120hz, (not that he's feeding it that much power... i think his amp is 60wpc which limits him to 104db), your acoustic SPL will be lower due to the dipole cancellations. Let's say that starts at 400hz. That's an acoustic loss of 10+db so the max SPL near 120hz of the 8" woofer with the 60w amp is a mere 94db! :eek: Add in 6db boost from the crossover at that frequency to the large peerless woofers, and you're still looking at a max SPL of 100db @ 120hz. In comparision, a pair of CA15RLYs (the mids used in Nuance's era of Songtowers, loaded by a transmission line down to the 40hz range, is mechanically capable of 115+db @ 120hz. Even if you factor in a thermal long term power handling of 120w (60w per driver), you're still looking at 109db output @ 1m. subtract about 4db, maybe 6 (outdoors) for the baffle step and you're still looking at 105db. I don't know how much actual BSC is on the Song towers but the point is, they're pretty capable. For short term peaks the rated power handling of two is 500w, so an amp, like an XPA-2, would drive them pretty well too.

Either way, 104db with 120w - that's 5db more output than the Orions at 120hz if the Dipole Rolloff starts at 400hz. If that rolloff starts at 500hz it'd be even worse (~~2db less output). If it starts at 300hz it'd be a bit better (~~2db better) but not enough to even the gap with the Songtowers.

The orions might take an edge lower in frequency but not if subwoofers are crossed over near 80hz like most setups.

Let's also consider how much ADTG likes his KEF 201/2s.. a single 6.5" LF driver.

There's a lot of factors that go into dynamics. Sensitivity, volume displacement, thermal power handling, use of shorting rings, suspension linearity, motor linearity, box tuning and box size (or lackthereof of a box a la Orion), the room size they will be used in, and the content that will be running through them. If dynamics aren't an issue (IE the room, content, and speakers will not be limiting factors) then the rest is just excess.
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Wow.. it surely shows your Small Character and Drivers inclusive. Are you just a "Salk Surfer" - a person who surfs around and audition hundreds of expensive speakers and always claims that his Salk speakers sound better. :)

That says it all -- tell that to Def. Tech./Paradigm/B&W/Focal/ and foremost Klipsch!:D

Your obvisouly the one that never graduated in Engr. and that clearly says it ALL.
Seriously man, read my speaker thread. You should really educate yourself before opening your mouth. With that said, I'll stop giving you such a hard time because of your condition and all. I honestly had no idea you were mentally handicapped; I feel terrible. I'm sorry, DPS.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
The only speakers ADTG has that are significantly more dynamic than the Song towers are the very pricy 10k+ Revels. The infinities might be comparable to the song towers though.

Let's start with the orions.

They're an Open Baffle speaker, so efficiency below ~500hz is greatly compromised. There is a single 8" midwoofer running from 120hz to 1.4khz. In free air it is effectively very low Q as it is - qtc < .4 which means it is already 1db down from stated sensitivity at 120hz (the crossover frequency)

The baffle width also creates dipole rolloff of 6db/oct starting somewhere from 300hz to 500hz (i could go and calculate it but no I won't). That means even if the volume displacement (Sd x xmax) of the driver allows for, say, 116db with 1000w input power @ its -6db cutoff point of 120hz, (not that he's feeding it that much power... i think his amp is 60wpc which limits him to 104db), your acoustic SPL will be lower due to the dipole cancellations. Let's say that starts at 400hz. That's an acoustic loss of 10+db so the max SPL near 120hz of the 8" woofer with the 60w amp is a mere 94db! :eek: Add in 6db boost from the crossover at that frequency to the large peerless woofers, and you're still looking at a max SPL of 100db @ 120hz. In comparision, a pair of CA15RLYs (the mids used in Nuance's era of Songtowers, loaded by a transmission line down to the 40hz range, is mechanically capable of 115+db @ 120hz. Even if you factor in a thermal long term power handling of 120w (60w per driver), you're still looking at 109db output @ 1m. subtract about 4db, maybe 6 (outdoors) for the baffle step and you're still looking at 105db. I don't know how much actual BSC is on the Song towers but the point is, they're pretty capable. For short term peaks the rated power handling of two is 500w, so an amp, like an XPA-2, would drive them pretty well too.

Either way, 104db with 120w - that's 5db more output than the Orions at 120hz if the Dipole Rolloff starts at 400hz. If that rolloff starts at 500hz it'd be even worse (~~2db less output). If it starts at 300hz it'd be a bit better (~~2db better) but not enough to even the gap with the Songtowers.

The orions might take an edge lower in frequency but not if subwoofers are crossed over near 80hz like most setups.

Let's also consider how much ADTG likes his KEF 201/2s.. a single 6.5" LF driver.

There's a lot of factors that go into dynamics. Sensitivity, volume displacement, thermal power handling, use of shorting rings, suspension linearity, motor linearity, box tuning and box size (or lackthereof of a box a la Orion), the room size they will be used in, and the content that will be running through them. If dynamics aren't an issue (IE the room, content, and speakers will not be limiting factors) then the rest is just excess.
That was an excellent post, but don't expect DPS to follow it, what with his handicap and all.:D Okay, I'll stop picking on the slow guy now; I do feel bad because of his condition.

It's a good thing I don't listen at 105dB sustained, eh? I'd probably have significant hearing loss by now. 85dB is my average, with 90 max for music. How about you guys? How loud do you listen sustained?
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
In one of the articles there was a Salk speaker that was talked about that was bottoming out at 75db at 12 feet listening distance because it was tuned to low! :eek: Which model is that?
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
In one of the articles there was a Salk speaker that was talked about that was bottoming out at 75db at 12 feet listening distance because it was tuned to low! :eek: Which model is that?
Likely one that wasn't set up correctly. I dont think I've ever heard any speaker bottom out at 75dB at 12 feet. Someone is fibbing or doesn't know what they're doing, unless the speaker was already damaged, of course.;)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
In one of the articles there was a Salk speaker that was talked about that was bottoming out at 75db at 12 feet listening distance because it was tuned to low! :eek: Which model is that?
I've never heard of that. And wouldn't expect that, unless we are talking about someone trying to drive the woofers too hard @ low frequency.

What kind of article?

Like a magazine article or online article from Audioholic?
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Lol, good one! Sorry, its hard not to call a spade a spade. When someone is trolling there will always be someone to call them out. In this case DPS has done nothing but knock a bunch of speakers he has never heard. That's a troll if I've ever seen one. I can't believe others put up with his crap... Over at AVS forum he goes into manufacturer threads and rips them (some very well known and respected brands) because they don't use 8"+ drivers or huge cabinets. It's pathetic and is most certainly trolling. I really do suspect he has issues, and I'm not trying to be mean. I hope he's able to get help with that, but i wish he'd stop with the ridiculous trolling posts. He has no idea what he's talking about and hasn't heard any of the speakers he bashes (minus the Aperions, which God only knows if he actually ordered or not. I wouldn't be surprised if he made that up).
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Salk doesn't offer a $2000/pair bookshelf speaker. Where did you see it was a Salk speaker?:confused: I should also edit my statement and say I've never heard a tower speaker bottom out at 75dB. Based on the article I'd say there is a chance that the amp was also suspect, perhaps not being able to handle whichever speaker it was. It's not likely but was it ruled out?
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
The Salk MBOW1/CAOW1 bookshelf speakers start at $999.00 a pair. So they go up from there. They could get to 2 grand depending on options chosen.


CAOW1 - home
 
MinusTheBear

MinusTheBear

Audioholic Ninja
As per the amp, the impedance graph shows a nasty dip and sees it as a dangerous load.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Lol, good one! Sorry, its hard not to call a spade a spade. When someone is trolling there will always be someone to call them out. In this case DPS has done nothing but knock a bunch of speakers he has never heard. That's a troll if I've ever seen one. I can't believe others put up with his crap...
I suppose some personalities just don't mix well like some drugs. :eek::D

PENG & I seem to get along fine with DenPureSound.

We may differ in opinions, but we are entitled to them. There are no absolutes in sound quality. The laws of calculus, physics, and engineering may be pretty much set in stones, but our beliefs in SQ are only subjective.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I suppose some personalities just don't mix well like some drugs. :eek::D

PENG & I seem to get along fine with DenPureSound.

We may differ in opinions, but we are entitled to them. There are no absolutes in sound quality. The laws of calculus, physics, and engineering may be pretty much set in stones, but our beliefs in SQ are only subjective.
But he has formed no opinion because he hasn't listened to any of the speakers. So how does subjectivity play a role here?
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
As per the amp, the impedance graph shows a nasty dip and sees it as a dangerous load.
Good catch on the graph - didn't see that on my phone's screen. :D I agree about the impedance; very nasty dip. I am surprised to see that. I wonder if Dennis would weigh in since it supposedly uses his crossover. I imagine something was wrong with that speaker, as that design has been around for a while and I don't recall anyone saying it bottomed out at 75dB. That particular speaker might have been flawed in some way.
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
I guess I missed the point about the bookshelf speakers. I'm just going to sit here quietly...:eek:
 
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