Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well, I can tell you my Orion's woofers bottom out if I expect them to play Pure Direct 2.0 on the movie "Inception".

But they can play music perfectly in 2.0.

 

[GranteedEV]

Well, I can tell you my Orion's woofers bottom out if I expect them to play Pure Direct 2.0 on the movie "Inception".

But they can play music perfectly in 2.0.

I have the soundtrack for that. I'd think Some cuts have 100+db content at under 20hz because I worry about my maelstrom excursion. Hans Zimmer's studio uses four Volt Radial 15" woofers... per speaker O_O

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have the soundtrack for that. I'd think Some cuts have 100+db content at under 20hz because I worry about my maelstrom excursion. Hans Zimmer's studio uses four Volt Radial 15" woofers... per speaker O_O

You should have told me that BEFORE I tried to play my Orions in 2.0 Pure Direct mode!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Good catch on the graph - didn't see that on my phone's screen. I agree about the impedance; very nasty dip. I am surprised to see that. I wonder if Dennis would weigh in since it supposedly uses his crossover. I imagine something was wrong with that speaker, as that design has been around for a while and I don't recall anyone saying it bottomed out at 75dB. That particular speaker might have been flawed in some way.

I can't recall whether the problem shown in the graph was due to damage caused during testing, or a wiring problem in the speaker. But I have attached the actual impedance plot of an 1801.

 

[Nuance AH]

I can't recall whether the problem shown in the graph was due to damage caused during testing, or a wiring problem in the speaker. But I have attached the actual impedance plot of an 1801.

So now the question is, why trash the crossover design in a public article if the speaker was damaged or mis-wired? The questions begs to be answered, did Audioholics contact the manufacturer and confirm or did they just assume the design was poor?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

So now the question is, why trash the crossover design in a public article if the speaker was damaged or mis-wired? The questions begs to be answered, did Audioholics contact the manufacturer and confirm or did they just assume the design was poor?

I think Gene and Jim Salk discussed this. I'm quite confident Gene knew that the 1801 didn't really meaure that way. But I had no part in the build or review process, so I can't really add anything.

 

[GranteedEV]

So now the question is, why trash the crossover design in a public article if the speaker was damaged or mis-wired? The questions begs to be answered, did Audioholics contact the manufacturer and confirm or did they just assume the design was poor?

I don't think the intention was to show that it's a salk speaker. that was just one of those things that squeezed through in the graph. If you read the article it says "this was a high end $2000 speaker" but doesn't point out who made it.

 

[GranteedEV]

You should have told me that BEFORE I tried to play my Orions in 2.0 Pure Direct mode!

ADTG, you're not allowed to listen to Inception on pure direct, unless your speakers look like this:

 

[Nuance AH]

I don't think the intention was to show that it's a salk speaker. that was just one of those things that squeezed through in the graph. If you read the article it says "this was a high end $2000 speaker" but doesn't point out who made it.

Why use a flawed speaker at all to make your point if that's not how they actually measure? Oh well, it was unintentional for Gene to give out the name of said speaker; mistakes happen and he has corrected it. Apparently this was an old model and has since been resolved.

 

[gene]

I think Gene and Jim Salk discussed this. I'm quite confident Gene knew that the 1801 didn't really meaure that way. But I had no part in the build or review process, so I can't really add anything.

I apologize for not seeing "Salk" in the filename of that graph. I thought I deleted all references to brand in that measurement. I have just fixed the graph so it no longer shows a name.

The speaker in question did in fact measure that way. I measured both speakers so it wasn't a simple miswiring. The point in using that graph was that the speakers did NOT perform their best b/c care wasn't taken to ensure the impedance profile didn't exhibit nasty dips in impedance which in this case caused very good quality amplifiers to shut down under just moderately high output levels. The product was discontinued shortly after I sent my review units back so there is no way to confirm if this issue was resolved.

Suffice it to say, this isn't the first speaker I've measured with impedance problems but it was a good example of something I still had in my HD to illustrate since I measured it fairly recently.

Again my apologies to Salk. Jim is a nice guy and I respect what he does.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I apologize for not seeing "Salk" in the filename of that graph. I thought I deleted all references to brand in that measurement. I have just fixed the graph so it no longer shows a name.

The speaker in question did in fact measure that way. I measured both speakers so it wasn't a simple miswiring. The point in using that graph was that the speakers did NOT perform their best b/c care wasn't taken to ensure the impedance profile didn't exhibit nasty dips in impedance which in this case caused very good quality amplifiers to shut down under just moderately high output levels. The product was discontinued shortly after I sent my review units back so there is no way to confirm if this issue was resolved.

Suffice it to say, this isn't the first speaker I've measured with impedance problems but it was a good example of something I still had in my HD to illustrate since I measured it fairly recently.

Again my apologies to Salk. Jim is a nice guy and I respect what he does.

So that one pair of prototype speakers was not built to the usual high standards and thus was discontinued from production altogether?

 

[Nuance AH]

So that one pair of prototype speakers was not built to the usual high standards and thus was discontinued from production altogether?

No. According to what Dennis told me, the crossover guy in the Salk facility wired these speakers incorrectly. Fortunately Gene found the issue through testing, though. I don't know if any production models were accidentally wired backwards as well or if it was just this pair, but the problem has been resolved. And I do believe Salk still offers the Ellis 1801 as a current model (it is still on their website). Of course, I am sure it's a properly wired version.

 

[zieglj01]

It is here - Ellis 1801
Ellis 1801b - home

 

[lsiberian]

Your still pretty smart there ADTG, and last time I looked you had more than a couple little 5" cone drivers in each front tower!! -- you know Sound Quality, ADTG.

Heck even my KLIPSCH have a couple 8" Drivers!

My reference speakers won't have 8" drivers. But I bet they can hit lower than your 8" drivers.

 

[DenPureSound]

My reference speakers won't have 8" drivers. But I bet they can hit lower than your 8" drivers.

Not as LOW as my SuperCubes integrated within, and that is a FACT!

 

[lsiberian]

Not as LOW as my SuperCubes integrated within, and that is a FACT!

I'm actually sealing them, but the Anarchy driver does demonstrate there is more to a driver than it's cone size.

 

[Nuance AH]

I'm actually sealing them, but the Anarchy driver does demonstrate there is more to a driver than it's cone size.

Oh man - nice choice.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not as LOW as my SuperCubes integrated within, and that is a FACT!

In terms of bass output and extension, there is no way any passive woofers will compete with the active subwoofers inside the BP7001SC, BP7000SC, or those RBH T2/P, T3/P, T30/P, especially when you want to crank up the bass levels for some Rock music.

 

[Nuance AH]

In terms of bass output and extension, there is no way any passive woofers will compete with the active subwoofers inside the BP7001SC, BP7000SC, or those RBH T2/P, T3/P, T30/P, especially when you want to crank up the bass levels for some Rock music.

That's like comparing apples to oranges, though.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That's like comparing apples to oranges, though.

Very true. It is apples to oranges and very unfair comparison.

The active subwoofers inside the BP7000SC & BP7001SC & those RBH will outperform any passive woofers.

Just like the big subs from SVS, Rythmik, Epik, HSU, Velodyne, JL, etc will outperform those active subwoofers inside those towers. Apples to oranges. But facts of like.