2010 Audioholics $1k Floorstanding Loudspeaker Faceoff

[admin]

In the time honored tradition since I started Audioholics.com nearly 11 years ago, we have conducted another annual loudspeaker faceoff. The brands in this comparison included: Klipsch, JBL, Axiom Audio and EMP. The results were quite enlightening as we learned about how biases (even those unintentional ones) played a more influential role in loudspeaker preference than the actual audible differences in the loudspeakers themselves. We discovered that each speaker in this comparison had their own individual strengths and weaknesses. It is a combination of how those traits interact in a particular room playing a particular type of music, and how they influence each individual's listening preferences in determining the best-suited speakers for each individuals needs. In the end, all four of these speakers were winners as they managed to provide respectably good audio at such modest price levels in a large and demanding listening space. Good food and drink, good friends, and good sound is an annual recipe for fun we plan on continuing and refining each year.

Discuss "2010 Audioholics $1k Floorstanding Loudspeaker Faceoff" here. Read the article.

 

[AJinFLA]

That's a terrific article. Nailed just about every quibble I would have had about the importance of listener position in a stereophonic soundfield, listening in a real, typically sized untreated reverberant environment (living room), etc, etc.
Bravo.
Maybe listening in a darkened room (late evening/night) with a more transparent (less lossy) curtain rather than resorting to blindfolds

 

[gene]

Crap the "Methods for Improving Speaker Testing" is supposed to be page 8 but when the article posted it somehow placed it as page 3. Sorry guys, trying to fix that.

 

[Seth=L]

It's quite funny to see how people seemed to really like the Klipsch until they could see them. Nearly all the casual listeners made comments about the bass being tight on the Klipsch (seemed like they liked it) and they also liked the open soundstage as well. Switch to sighted test and the highs are unpleasant and the bass is boomy.

 

[gene]

It's quite funny to see how people seemed to really like the Klipsch until they could see them. Nearly all the casual listeners made comments about the bass being tight on the Klipsch (seemed like they liked it) and they also liked the open soundstage as well. Switch to sighted test and the highs are unpleasant and the bass is boomy.

Yes there was a lot of variability in the listening tests. However, again note the losses in the grille cloth which had a huge impact on the tonal balance of the speakers.

 

[AJinFLA]

It's quite funny to see how people seemed to really like the Klipsch until they could see them... Switch to sighted test and the highs are unpleasant

The HF attenuation of the curtain was significant enough to explain that.

and the bass is boomy.

That ones a bit tougher to explain, if the placement of the Klipsch within the room, as well as objects (other speakers, etc.) and listener position, remained constant between sighted/blind.
...Or easy to explain, based on what we know about sighted listening.

 

[AJinFLA]

Gene,

Sorry if if missed this in the article (or a previous one)
Two listeners were listed as "trained".
How was this determined? TIA

cheers,

AJ

 

[gene]

Gene,

Sorry if if missed this in the article (or a previous one)
Two listeners were listed as "trained".
How was this determined? TIA

cheers,

AJ

Well one of them is our Editor in Chief who reviews products for a living. The other is a musician and avid music lover who has spent years hanging out with me listening and critiquing virtually all of the products I have personally tested. Both of them have a good frame of reference for determining accuracy in reproduced music.

 

[randyb]

Well done Gene. I had contemplated doing a blind test of speakes and exchanged a number of email with Dr. Olive. In the end, I didn't think I could do it justice without an enormous amount of time spent by both me and the testers. It is not trivial to do these without a lof of preparation.

 

[Tirade]

Excellent review!

The EMP E55ti's were on my short list so Im glad to see that they stand up well to some of the brand names.

My question is regarding the driver replacement you mentioned. Is the new driver something that will be going into future versions (and is there an eta?) or is this something that can be replaced by an end user when they are released for a minor price?

This would be the only thing that keeps me from buying them today.

 

[gene]

The EMP E55ti's were on my short list so Im glad to see that they stand up well to some of the brand names.

My question is regarding the driver replacement you mentioned. Is the new driver something that will be going into future versions (and is there an eta?) or is this something that can be replaced by an end user when they are released for a minor price?

This would be the only thing that keeps me from buying them today.

I was told their next shipment of product will include the driver upgrade. I should be getting review samples with the upgrades next month.

 

[fredk]

I enjoyed the article. It is interesting how close the scoring was.

I would be curious to know how the speakers scored if you looked at just the trained listeners. From the comments it seems like the Klipsch would rate lower, but it is hard to tells.

In some ways, the comments didn't quite seem to match the ratings at times, but that could be a language/communication thing, or perhaps just the comments selected.

 

[gene]

I would be curious to know how the speakers scored if you looked at just the trained listeners. From the comments it seems like the Klipsch would rate lower, but it is hard to tells.

In some ways, the comments didn't quite seem to match the ratings at times, but that could be a language/communication thing, or perhaps just the comments selected.

The trained listeners seemed to prefer the EMP's followed by the JBLs both for blind and sighted tests. Although during the blind tests, at times the Axioms scored almost on equal footing with the EMPs with one of the trained listeners while they both sometimes liked the Klipsch depending on what they were compared to.

The comments did seem rather overly negative but I think that may be human nature when trying to compare two different sound sources as opposed to judging for an absolute reference of sound.

 

[Seth=L]

I would have liked to have seen how the famous Infinity Primus 362 would have done against those $1K speakers

 

[MidnightSensi]

This is a really fun read, it's taking a bit to digest all the information!

That room is 6,000ft^3? Is that a typo? Do you mean 600ft^3?

It's interesting how negative most of the comments were, either people took the approach of picking speakers apart or non of the speakers were that amazing. Or, more likely, they all were similar enough where the differences were few.

 

[AJinFLA]

Well one of them is our Editor in Chief who reviews products for a living. The other is a musician and avid music lover who has spent years hanging out with me listening and critiquing virtually all of the products I have personally tested.

Thanks. The training must have paid off, as they were fairly consistent in scoring.
Still waiting on Sean's software to be released. Should be interesting.

Both of them have a good frame of reference for determining accuracy in reproduced music.

Then hopefully I'll run into them sometime where I do my training for accuracy .
Can't wait for them to finish the new concert hall, as I'm sure you all are.

That room is 6,000ft^3? Is that a typo? Do you mean 600ft^3?

. ^3 is cubic, not square(d). 600ft^3 would be a walk in closet (say 6'Wx10'Dx10'H).

cheers,

AJ

 

[MidnightSensi]

Haha, whoops. I thought something was fishy. So used to square footage being talked about with rooms.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would have liked to have seen how the famous Infinity Primus 362 would have done against those $1K speakers

I thought exactly the same - The stock p362 and one with light mods as per Chris [WmAx]

 

[billy p]

Well this review gives me some perspective on the Axioms, as I alway thought...what if? Well now I feel somewhat vindicated....since I've heard 2 of those 4 brands...subjectively speaking of course.

Thanks Gene and yes these faceoffs are what drew me to this forum....

Regards, Bill....

 

[just listening]

I would like to applaud Gene and the group responsible for putting together the blind test. I appreciate very much the detailed efforts to show how many variables there are in such testing and the sheer difficulty in finding a level playing field. It is my hope that all who think such testing is easy will gain insight into why very few such events are done in audio circles. Especially, for taking the time to contact Dr. Toole and other experts in the field, and making sure to point out the issue of seating position, and the effects of the fabric blind on the speakers performance.

From several DBT tests done in college from both the admin and subject side, I can testify as to the immense amount of setup work needed to eliminate as many variables as necessary.

I do agree with Gene that bringing in casual listeners can be a bit problematic and that some education ahead time on what to listen for is a reasonable thought.

My question for Gene involves speaker position: You mentioned using the A/B position setup. Being that speakers have specific position sweet spots (distance from walls, etc.) was any thought given to conducting the tests from each speakers optimal position placement in the room? That way allowing the speakers to be judged when they are at their optimal performance level.