Danley DTS-10, or other?

[Warpdrv]

Radio Shack Model 33-2050, model 42-3019, Model 33-4050, Model 33-2055 all have calibration files and work fine up to 3khz. If you have one of those models you're golden.

I'd go with the Behringer EP4000 and do the fan Mod in your place. It's way cheaper than the Yamaha.

+1, or the new Peavey IPR Class D amps are looking pretty good under stress tests... Plus they have a RCA input, which saves the hassle of adding external devices...

 

[jostenmeat]

+1, or the new Peavey IPR Class D amps are looking pretty good under stress tests... Plus they have a RCA input, which saves the hassle of adding external devices...

Oh, cool, thanks for the heads up and idea. Hm, this is a pic of the IPR 3000 I think, and are you still certain they have RCA input?

So, I've had a chance to read up more on that AVS thread. I much better understand why people are running bridged now, and they are the directions as given by Ivan Beaver. Then there is also no need to run two sets of wires to the sub either . . .

There seems to be a lot of confusion about the whole bridging and out of polarity wiring issue.

I will try to keep this as simple as I can.

First a little background on bridging.

When you "properly" bridge an amp you have this happening. The Ch A signal goes to the CH A output as normal. The CH B has a polarity inverter in front of it and then goes to output B as normal.

So now the "hots" are opposite polarity. When you hook your loudspeaker BETWEEN THE TWO HOTS (nothing is hooked to ground or neg) you have twice the voltage swing as a normal channel would provide.

This results is 4 times the power into a particular load. voltage squared/impedance=watts

If you hook the loudspeakers up normally to the outputs (while the bridge switch is engaged) you will get the normal power but one set of terminals is inverted (with regards to polarity) to the other. If you hook up 2 regular subs to the amp when wired this way they will cancel each other out.

On some amps (QSC (and maybe the clones) in particular) the CH2 level HAS to be turned all the way down or you get nasty stuff happening on the output.

Since the DTS10 HAS to have one driver out of polarity with the other, this is just a easy way to do it. Plus since you now have a seperate wire going to each driver you have less loss (more control) over that driver.

If this is confusing to understand then you have 2 options. Simply wire the kit up as described in the wiring. Then run a SINGLE cable (pair of wires) to a single amp channel OR send it to an amp that is wired up "properly" for bridge mode operation.

It is pretty simple when you follow MY instruction as stated. But the confusion starts when you try to follow my instructions AND the amp manufacturers . They are NOT the same thing-and each is intended to do a specific chore.

No you will NOT damage your amp by wiring it up as I have stated. The amp modules are still working as they were intended. Just what is going into them is different.

There are even more ways to wire it up-if that makes people feel better. Hook the loudspeakers up as normal (one to each channel +to +).

Now if your amp has balanced inputs wire them in parallel-except swap pins 2 and 3 on one of the inputs NOT both. You have now wired the inputs out of polarity, which does the same thing as the bridge switch. You will of course need to turn up ch B to get anything going to that loudspeaker.

Or you could put a unity gain polarity inverter in one of the inputs to the amp.

There are still more ways-but those are the most common.

Don't try to make it any harder than it should be.

As far as SQ, a few have noted longer decay and/or peaking at around the high 50hz mark, and according to Ivan, it's centered at 62hz:

The TH50 has a "hump" in the response around 62Hz and fairly wide

Yes the TH50 and all tapped horns have this reflection that comes back into play at higher freq. It varies with the path length of the horn.

It is generally not a problem when used in the intended passband.

Just like everything-use it in a way it wasn't designed to be used, and you won't get the intended results.

If only for fun, I wanted to share a few humorous quotes by impressed consumers:

"The cushions on my couch visibly oscillate."

"Has anyone watched Alians vs preditors with dual dts-10's? OMG i ACTUALLY THOUGHT MY SUBS WERE GOING TO FALL THROUGH THE FLOOR INTO THE GARAGE!"

"My wife saw me measuring and had this genuine look of concern on her face. She said are you sure the foundation can take it."

"I just ran more demos for 2 of the guys and they give the Danley's the win. It was a sure thing during the opening of Transformers 2 and then I threw in WOTW. The Danley's go deeper for sure in my room. You can just feel the pulse waves(slow ones). The eD's do move my hair more(on my head). The eD's move my hair anytime the Tumbler drives by the screen, when the pod puts the foot down, or any big bass scene."

Regarding the aforementioned ringing, I'm not sure of going to lengths like the below (1" acoustical cotton) was in fact aimed at possible ringing(?).

Then with the pic below, I can see why some might choose to run the wire through the horn (if I understood correctly), but I'm not sure if there needs to be mods to do so. I also am curious if the asymmetrical/symmetrical builds of the pair are easily allowable, and how that works out really (probably stupidly simple, but I'm not sure).

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Those are a lot prettier than the F113...

Oh, cool, thanks for the heads up and idea.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Those are bloody big....

Really, the shear size of those might actually limit placement options and that might need to be taken into consideration. If your saying your room has limited space, maybe two or four smaller subwoofers should be considered.

As far as finish, I'd just build them and them take it to the Line-X shop to get sprayed. Or get some AWL-Grip.

 

[jostenmeat]

As far as finish, I'd just build them and them take it to the Line-X shop to get sprayed. Or get some AWL-Grip.

My indecision is just killing me. I think the best place, aesthetically, will have to be on the back wall. It appears people are getting favorable (read: tactile) impressions by pointing the mouth towards the wall, not away. I might leave the unit as unfinished since it's on the back wall, but I dunno. I have a wood expert who has volunteered to help me assemble, carry, and finish (if need be), if I order this monster.

We investigated the idea of making a riser/housing for dual, but it's just too much overall money, work, and LFE overkill I think.

 

[Warpdrv]

Yeah those pics are pretty much the reason I couldn't possibly have something like that in my house...

I really wish I could...

 

[jostenmeat]

I ORDERED ONE! I have a stupid grin on my face as I type this. Because, well, I'm stupid.

I finally realized that I feel that I need a lot more output, and very particularly down low, and that the overall cost for this thing is extremely reasonable, all said and done.

Because of the last minute super mad rush on this item, they do not expect to be able to ship it for 2 weeks, worst case scenario 4 weeks.

I will save exactly $248 by picking this up at the freight center, which is close to a half hour drive or so. You have to choose if it will go there at time of purchase. They/we save money by shipping the unit upright, if I understood correctly, as they can then avoid the oversized rating/pallet/whatever. However, with a high center of gravity like that, I may consider opening it all up at the center itself, for ease of transportation. Really though, I intend to ask my friend, as I prefer to use his much larger truck over my modest truck.

LFE here we come.

 

[MidnightSensi]

I ORDERED ONE! I have a stupid grin on my face as I type this. Because, well, I'm stupid.

I finally realized that I feel that I need a lot more output, and very particularly down low, and that the overall cost for this thing is extremely reasonable, all said and done.

Because of the last minute super mad rush on this item, they do not expect to be able to ship it for 2 weeks, worst case scenario 4 weeks.

I will save exactly $248 by picking this up at the freight center, which is close to a half hour drive or so. You have to choose if it will go there at time of purchase. They/we save money by shipping the unit upright, if I understood correctly, as they can then avoid the oversized rating/pallet/whatever. However, with a high center of gravity like that, I may consider opening it all up at the center itself, for ease of transportation. Really though, I intend to ask my friend, as I prefer to use his much larger truck over my modest truck.

LFE here we come.

COOL!!!!

If I remember correctly Danley will not ship UPS Ground, only UPS Freight. For good reasons.

Do you have a friend with/at a shop that has a forklift? Think engine shops, mechanics, tile stores, petrol sales, and so forth. Not sure if they'll let you unload a pallet in the UPS Freight center.

Just lay some foam down the bed and strap it down with tow straps forward and back.

 

[jostenmeat]

Do you have a friend with/at a shop that has a forklift? Think engine shops, mechanics, tile stores, petrol sales, and so forth. Not sure if they'll let you unload a pallet in the UPS Freight center.

Well, I hope to figure it out! It was actually Danley that told me that some people did in fact unload/unpack at the center. Largest couple of pieces can go into bed, and most everything else is diminutive enough to put inside the cabin. I bet we will most likely just truck the whole thing over, we will see.

So, Midnight, throw me your amp recs! Just one, as bridged, 1KW @ 4ohms, IIRC. Ballpark. Do you think leaving it unfinished is lame?

Cheers.

 

[Matt34]

Congrats! I would love to have a DTS-10 some day!

There is a picture over at AVS of someone that loaded it upright in the back of their Ford Ranger.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Awesome John!

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MidnightSensi]

Well, I hope to figure it out! It was actually Danley that told me that some people did in fact unload/unpack at the center. Largest couple of pieces can go into bed, and most everything else is diminutive enough to put inside the cabin. I bet we will most likely just truck the whole thing over, we will see.

So, Midnight, throw me your amp recs! Just one, as bridged, 1KW @ 4ohms, IIRC. Ballpark. Do you think leaving it unfinished is lame?

Cheers.

If Danley says they'll let you unload there then I'm sure it's fine. Just wanted you to be sure. I once went to pick something up at an airport and they wouldn't let me unload it there, had to come back with a trailer.

If the IEC is 1kW @ 4-ohms, I generally use the rule of thumb of about doubling that to select amplifier power.

Crest, Crown and QSC are my personal favorites, but all the amps from decent companies are good now, there really isn't a lot of junk out there. Some are better at certain things than others. Right now, I'd say the winner for a home is the Crown XTi for bedside manner, DSP, requiring no fan mod (they are nearly silent out of the box), and having awesome support (Crown has fixed and replaced amps for me they probably shouldn't have, and always answers the phone). Also, for this sub, I'm pretty sure there is a channel polarity selection in the DSP....but I gotta check. Crest is the powerhouse, my mobile rack is now all CD amps, which are efficient and absolutely POUND, my home rack has one CD for the subs and the mains run off a CC... but they require a fan mod and are more of a boutique builder...when you need parts or service you have to talk to some guy in "Parts" who calls you back.

Crown XTi2000 is my vote. But my real answer is that, as long as you buy from a good brand, it doesn't matter.

 

[jostenmeat]

Congrats! I would love to have a DTS-10 some day!

There is a picture over at AVS of someone that loaded it upright in the back of their Ford Ranger.

Thanks man! I tried to find the pic, which I've seen before, but can't locate it.

Awesome John!

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Greg!

I'm thinking, that in the same way God gives parents 9 months before a kid is born for a reason, that I am not going to have my DTS10 for a month for good reason. Lots to research! I hope to stop by Home Depot very soon, maybe even tonight, to pick up some 10-24 1-1/4" pan and flat screws, star washers, maybe some PL premium glue. The mouth can easily be on either side, it seems. Ivan recommends boundary reinforcement/placement, but with the mouth away from the wall. It seems that using piece "A" as the jig is the WTG, but that there are glue issues that I don't quite understand yet.

Are there less inherent issues if I use RCA/quarter inch, rather than RCA/XLR? It seems so, but I need to be sure.

I'm seeing that there are a TON of commercial amps out there. The Crest 200 series look very nice, but even the 7200 is mucho moula. Crown, I'm just lost. Haven't even looked at QSC yet. OH, I see that MS has replied, ok, gonna check those out for sure.

I've already been shirking other responsibilities/chores a bit because I've got Danley on the brain! hahaha


Midnight, I'm pretty sure the consensus is that 1KW is just fine. That Crown does look nice! Is there a more modest version of that for perhaps a bit lower in price?

 

[jostenmeat]

Well, Midnight, I ordered it!! LOL. I pulled the trigger fast, because the first time I looked I only saw $700 price tags everywhere, but then there was in red lettering Only 1 left in stock--order soon for $499 at Amazon (thru Abe's). Soon as I hit add to cart, I remembered I had better transfer some more into my account, lol, just in case.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FL3QGY/ref=oss_product

edit: I hit the link now, and it no longer says Abe's, but merchandise, and the shipping is higher too now. I must have got the last one from that store . . .


edit #2: I don't really need to use speakon connections do I? ok, I guess not: bare wire is fine I presume. Or I have an extra pair of locking bananas (if they fit and work).

I'm still curious if I should opt for either quarter inch or XLR. The run is very short (same rack, or at most a few feet).

 

[MidnightSensi]

Well, Midnight, I ordered it!! LOL. I pulled the trigger fast, because the first time I looked I only saw $700 price tags everywhere, but then there was in red lettering Only 1 left in stock--order soon for $499 at Amazon (thru Abe's). Soon as I hit add to cart, I remembered I had better transfer some more into my account, lol, just in case.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FL3QGY/ref=oss_product

edit: I hit the link now, and it no longer says Abe's, but merchandise, and the shipping is higher too now. I must have got the last one from that store . . .


edit #2: I don't really need to use speakon connections do I? ok, I guess not: bare wire is fine I presume. Or I have an extra pair of locking bananas (if they fit and work).

I'm still curious if I should opt for either quarter inch or XLR. The run is very short (same rack, or at most a few feet).

Cool! I think you'll be happy with that.

Is your pre-amp balanced? If so, I'd just use XLR to XLR. If it isn't, then you might consider one of those conversion boxes, that basically boosts the input sensitivity for +4 connections. Otherwise, an RCA to XLR is fine if the pre-amp has enough output to drive the amplifier to full power.

The amp has Speakons and I assume the subwoofer comes with Speakon inputs, as basically any speaker from a prosound company does. By the way, once you use Speakon connections you'll absolutely hate regular terminals. If you don't have any Speakon cables, you can order them online or Guitar Center carries them.

 

[jostenmeat]

Cool! I think you'll be happy with that.

Me too, thanks a lot for the advice. I particularly like the whole CS description, as that in of itself is definitely worth something. As with you, I do have my own reasons in preferring to stay away from Behringer, and even though I pay a bit more for less power, this looks a lot better, and I will be taken care of. And it will be plenty of power for me I bet.

Is your pre-amp balanced? If so, I'd just use XLR to XLR. If it isn't, then you might consider one of those conversion boxes, that basically boosts the input sensitivity for +4 connections. Otherwise, an RCA to XLR is fine if the pre-amp has enough output to drive the amplifier to full power.

No it isn't. In fact, it's just a receiver acting as pre, Onkyo 805. I did post a pic of the Samson in the second post in this thread. You like it? A few think it's worth trying without it first, but I dunno about my receiver TBH. I may just buy it, because I don't want any sort of "aw, hell what did I do wrong?! why does it sound so bad?!".

The amp has Speakons and I assume the subwoofer comes with Speakon inputs, as basically any speaker from a prosound company does. By the way, once you use Speakon connections you'll absolutely hate regular terminals. If you don't have any Speakon cables, you can order them online or Guitar Center carries them.

Thanks! If you have any preference or link, of course I'd appreciate it. So here is a pic from post #1 in the official thread. They are Speakon?

 

[jostenmeat]

Hm, I guess I could have saved $55 on the Crown, thru Ebay instead. Oops. Well, I like Amazon- super easy returns, and CS. anyhoo . . .

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-CROWN-XTi-2000-amplifier-XTi2000-AMP-XTi-2000-DJ-/160419976981?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2559c69715

Darn, another favorite vendor, Monoprice, doesn't carry Speakon.

Ok, I better think about eating soon! Thanks again MS.

 

[MidnightSensi]

Me too, thanks a lot for the advice. I particularly like the whole CS description, as that in of itself is definitely worth something. As with you, I do have my own reasons in preferring to stay away from Behringer, and even though I pay a bit more for less power, this looks a lot better, and I will be taken care of. And it will be plenty of power for me I bet.

No problem man, I think you'll like it.

No it isn't. In fact, it's just a receiver acting as pre, Onkyo 805. I did post a pic of the Samson in the second post in this thread. You like it? A few think it's worth trying without it first, but I dunno about my receiver TBH. I may just buy it, because I don't want any sort of "aw, hell what did I do wrong?! why does it sound so bad?!".

Yeah, that Samson will work good. RCA from the pre-out on the receiver to the Samson RCA in. Then XLR out from the Samson to the XLR input on the Crown.


You can try it without first if you want. All it is doing is converting the signal to balanced (which, for practical purposes, will cancel any induced noise) and boosting the output voltage to pro-level. Amplifiers are fixed gain. The knobs are called gain knobs in vernacular, but they really are just attentuators. There needs to be a certain amount of input voltage in order to drive the amplifier to full power. So, if you run without the box, you will not be able to drive the amp as easily, and so then the input attentuators will have to be raised and you'll have a higher noise floor.

Thanks! If you have any preference or link, of course I'd appreciate it. So here is a pic from post #1 in the official thread. They are Speakon?

Those aren't Speakon.

I Google image searched and saw this:

Which is Speakon.... you may be able to order them either way?

All my speakers are Speakon, but binding posts work too.

This is what a Speakon connector looks like:

To insert, you twist until it clicks. To release, you press the button on top and twist and pull.

For pre-made ones, I typically just buy whatever looks okay at Guitar Center or I get Hosa cables, typically from B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/296902-REG/Hosa_Technology_SKT_225_SKT_200_Series_Speakon_to.html


If your sub comes with binding posts, then there are posts on the back of the Crown and so that route works fine also!

 

[ufokillerz]

i had no issues running the sub preout from my previous onkyo 3007 to amp without a samson or any xlr level matching device

speakon is great, since most pro amps have them! they are impossible to normally tug out

 

[jostenmeat]

You can try it without first if you want. All it is doing is converting the signal to balanced (which, for practical purposes, will cancel any induced noise) and boosting the output voltage to pro-level. Amplifiers are fixed gain. The knobs are called gain knobs in vernacular, but they really are just attentuators. There needs to be a certain amount of input voltage in order to drive the amplifier to full power. So, if you run without the box, you will not be able to drive the amp as easily, and so then the input attentuators will have to be raised and you'll have a higher noise floor.

I'm leaning towards getting it. TBH, I've wondered about my receiver, and receivers in general, having enough output voltage for even non-commercial amps. Of course, being the noob that I am, I haven't tested them. By not having to buy an XLR/RCA adapter, I can pretend that the Samson costs $40.

Which is Speakon.... you may be able to order them either way?

All my speakers are Speakon, but binding posts work too.

To insert, you twist until it clicks. To release, you press the button on top and twist and pull.

For pre-made ones, I typically just buy whatever looks okay at Guitar Center or I get Hosa cables, typically from B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/296902-REG/Hosa_Technology_SKT_225_SKT_200_Series_Speakon_to.html

I think I need to do my own binding posts. I guess I'll try speakons. I'll connect Mono 12 AWG to +1 and -1, and leave 2 /+/- alone. I thought I read of something a person did to help make the seal airtight with the binding posts/panel, but I don't remember it.

The binding post:

Pinout diagrams (I suppose I don't need to care which of the two I use? Oh wait, they must be male/female . . . ?):

i had no issues running the sub preout from my previous onkyo 3007 to amp without a samson or any xlr level matching device

Maybe that's because you are running TWO DTS10s. Maybe you have super amps. So if it is true that you aren't getting the full potential of your amps, perhaps you wouldn't know as your setup does not stop you from achieving all of the output you desire. I'll have "only" one DTS10, and am probably using a weaker amp than many Danley owners. I dunno though.

speakon is great, since most pro amps have them! they are impossible to normally tug out

Thanks.

So I read that people ordering today won't get theirs for a month, because they are out of drivers. 22 hours left on this deal.