Onkyo TX-RZ70 11.2CH AV Receiver - Official Support Thread

[gene]

To be clear, the issue in the review was Dirac DLBC does not working properly when running your speakers full range with subs. So if you are not running your speakers full range Dirac DLBC should work fine. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thanks for updating us.

I asked Mark to clarify but he's traveling in Europe ATM so it may take a few days.

In the meantime, I just posted this article based on the recent FW update for Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer but I'm not sure if the update addresses the issues Mark discovered during his review.

New Firmware Brings Improved Functionality & Dirac Performance to Onkyo, Integra, Pioneer AVRs

Premium Audio Company, parent company of Onkyo, Integra, and Pioneer/Elite, released a firmware update for its AV Receivers which improves audio streaming quality and Dirac functionality and much more.

www.audioholics.com

 

[TheoN]

I think it’s important to keep the focus on the Onkyo AVR not Dirac. There were interoperability issues with the Dirac builds and the Onkyo during the review period that required manual editing of the Dirac preference files just to get it to connect with the unit. NAD, ARCAM and other users have been stuck on older builds for month on end. As Gene alluded, both he and I have both run into a technical limitation with Dirac where it is setting an undefeatable HPF at 20Hz on mains that are capable of LFE and/or bass performance below 20Hz. This produces several problems in our setups including nulls at 18Hz (and other anomalies from 25Hz and below) that are caused by the HPF implementation. In a nutshell, no one is knocking Dirac. On the contrary, Dirac is great and Dirac ART (which I’ve been testing for months) has delivered some of the best bass performance in my theater with my unlocked Focal Astral 16 (Storm Audio). There are known limitations with the current Dirac implementation when you are trying to run ANY speaker capable of true full range down to and below 20Hz. This is a confirmed issue from Dirac and they are working on addressing this in a future build. On to the Onkyo!

 

[TheoN]

Final note to close out the Dirac point so you all have some insider info. I met with the Dirac team a few weeks ago while working on my forthcoming Dirac ART tutorial (see the initial episode here
“How to Do Perfect Mic Measurements for Dirac, Audyssey, and ARC Genesis”

and they are working to address the HPF issue (and a few other items I brought to their attention) in a future build.

 

[tunamark]

Hello all. Gene has asked me to chime in.

DLBC assumes full control of an AVR’s bass management settings and you cannot make any edits in the AVR for bass management. Therefore "full range" isn't really relevant when talking about DLBC.

"You think he trying to run his mains full range and his subs at the same time and that is where he ran into the issue?" - > I was not. Regardless, as noted above, DLBC engagement makes this impossible to execute.

Here at Audioholics we have advocated to all room correction manufacturers that they need to account for full range speakers capable of LFE and true full range support. Gene’s RBH SVTRS and Theo’s Focal 1000 Utopia setups are capable of LFE to the mains and full range performance and run into limitations with Dirac (and other RC solutions too).

As I said in the review, DLBC consistently produced overdone and muddy bass. I was convinced that the sub-optimal result was due to an issue with the Dirac build available during my review period. I communicated with Dirac on this matter throughout. My DLBC note is a statement of my experience with the setup process and calibration results, nothing more.

Importantly, Dirac has issued several software updates since then—most notably there are changes to mic and gain settings in recent builds. I’m optimistic that the newer builds will give the optimal results I’m accustomed to seeing with DLBC. We will continue to test these new builds and will update the review.

As a work around, I turned to the EQ in the SVS's to set-up the subs and present them as one to Dirac w/o bass control, with excellent results. I can A/B these and the differences are astounding. Simply put, I demonstrated how I performed the workaround to conclude my review and listening impressions on this truly stellar AVR.
Thanks all,
Mark

 

[ban25]

While Mark is a new reviewer for Audioholics, his results were fact checked by Onkyo and Dirac and we are awaiting a firmware update from Dirac so he can retest and update his review. Our own Theo Nicolakis was also at Mark's helping him set up Dirac and he's a very seasoned reviewer intimately familiar with Dirac. Next time, try being a little less crass before knowing all of the facts.

Point taken and my apologies for the offense.

I appreciate Theo and Mark's follow up posts clarifying the issues encountered.

 

[Danzilla31]

Hello all. Gene has asked me to chime in.

DLBC assumes full control of an AVR’s bass management settings and you cannot make any edits in the AVR for bass management. Therefore "full range" isn't really relevant when talking about DLBC.

"You think he trying to run his mains full range and his subs at the same time and that is where he ran into the issue?" - > I was not. Regardless, as noted above, DLBC engagement makes this impossible to execute.

Here at Audioholics we have advocated to all room correction manufacturers that they need to account for full range speakers capable of LFE and true full range support. Gene’s RBH SVTRS and Theo’s Focal 1000 Utopia setups are capable of LFE to the mains and full range performance and run into limitations with Dirac (and other RC solutions too).

As I said in the review, DLBC consistently produced overdone and muddy bass. I was convinced that the sub-optimal result was due to an issue with the Dirac build available during my review period. I communicated with Dirac on this matter throughout. My DLBC note is a statement of my experience with the setup process and calibration results, nothing more.

Importantly, Dirac has issued several software updates since then—most notably there are changes to mic and gain settings in recent builds. I’m optimistic that the newer builds will give the optimal results I’m accustomed to seeing with DLBC. We will continue to test these new builds and will update the review.

As a work around, I turned to the EQ in the SVS's to set-up the subs and present them as one to Dirac w/o bass control, with excellent results. I can A/B these and the differences are astounding. Simply put, I demonstrated how I performed the workaround to conclude my review and listening impressions on this truly stellar AVR.
Thanks all,
Mark

For some of us that have Dirac systems this is not a new issue. Dirac can be incredibly up and down depending on the update that you are on.

I am in a home theater club here in Austin and San Antonio Texas where we take turns hosting each other in our home theaters. That was a big concern and a big topic on a couple visits with a lot of Dirac owners expressing their issues depending on which update they are on and sometimes having to go back to a previous build or staying on a previous build to get optimal results.

It can be so glitchy I've held off on implementing Dirac on my HTP-1 and when I do decide to go for it I may just have one of the members who calibrates systems professionally do it so I can be sure I'm getting the best results

So you are not alone in experiencing this issue with Dirac. I know they are working on it and I'm sure they will eventually have a fix.

In the meantime as @TheoN said back to the main topic great job on the article and a great review of a great AVR.

Looks like Onkyo took a positive step towards it's glory days with this lineup!

 

[gene]

Sweetwater has this unit for $800 off for Black Friday, fyi
Deal

Or you can get the same deal from our channel partner Audio Advice using our affiliate link to support our website and efforts bringing these great reviews to everyone:

https://audioadvice.io/4fbRoRs

 

[dlaloum]

I think it’s important to keep the focus on the Onkyo AVR not Dirac. There were interoperability issues with the Dirac builds and the Onkyo during the review period that required manual editing of the Dirac preference files just to get it to connect with the unit. NAD, ARCAM and other users have been stuck on older builds for month on end. As Gene alluded, both he and I have both run into a technical limitation with Dirac where it is setting an undefeatable HPF at 20Hz on mains that are capable of LFE and/or bass performance below 20Hz. This produces several problems in our setups including nulls at 18Hz (and other anomalies from 25Hz and below) that are caused by the HPF implementation. In a nutshell, no one is knocking Dirac. On the contrary, Dirac is great and Dirac ART (which I’ve been testing for months) has delivered some of the best bass performance in my theater with my unlocked Focal Astral 16 (Storm Audio). There are known limitations with the current Dirac implementation when you are trying to run ANY speaker capable of true full range down to and below 20Hz. This is a confirmed issue from Dirac and they are working on addressing this in a future build. On to the Onkyo!

Could I ask you, and Gene, for a comment on the integration in the range between 20Hz and 120Hz....

Many full range speakers provide bass down to 30Hz, few go down to 20Hz and even fewer go below 20Hz.

However, there is the potential for substantial benefits for the much much more important frequency range that most full range speakers do cover!

Are there issues integrating full range speakers with subs within that range? (ie: setting aside the 20Hz filter, and considering the "main" bass zone rather than subsonics) - For DL, DLBC and/or DLART

 

[everettT]

Or you can get the same deal from our channel partner Audio Advice using our affiliate link to support our website and efforts bringing these great reviews to everyone:

https://audioadvice.io/4fbRoRs

I deleted my original post as to not have any conflict.