Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[highfigh]

The concern from some NATO members is an escalation to a wider conflict that includes NATO, especially if NATO weaponry is used inside Russia. Even for use inside Ukraine there has been a significant foot dragging to supply weapons, like moderns tanks and long-range missiles. So far only air planes from the Soviet Union era has been given to Ukraine, and a number of them is not even in the best (i.e. usable) condition.

So here we are, but do recall that more and more advanced weaponry has been given to Ukraine over time, after some procrastination.

I'll look for the name, but I watched a video with the former head of a US military branch who said that the goal for Ukraine isn't to win, it's to prevent them losing. He said that the West is afraid of Putin's threats to use nukes and they're doing only as much as it takes to prevent that.

 

[Trell]

I'll look for the name, but I watched a video with the former head of a US military branch who said that the goal for Ukraine isn't to win, it's to prevent them losing. He said that the West is afraid of Putin's threats to use nukes and they're doing only as much as it takes to prevent that.

I think that Ukraine don't mind not winning if they can regain all their land they lost to the brutal Russian invasion(s), including Crimea.

 

[highfigh]

I think that Ukraine don't mind not winning if they can regain all their land they lost to the brutal Russian invasion(s), including Crimea.

Yeah, I don't think Putin will go for that. OTOH, I'm willing to find out what his replacement will do, ASAP.

Now where did I put my MOAB? BOOM!

 

[Mr._Clark]

Yeah, I don't think Putin will go for that. OTOH, I'm willing to find out what his replacement will do, ASAP.

Now where did I put my MOAB? BOOM!

If you're thinking about hitting his bunkers (first link below), I suggest a GBU-57A/B MOP (second link below).

>>>But, despite all these princely luxuries and castle-like defenses, the palace's builders appear to have neglected one crucial detail. They failed to hide plans showing two elaborate tunnels running beneath the palace complex — plans that any competent state-security apparatus would fight tooth-and-nail to keep secret.<<<

Revealed: Vladimir Putin's secret Black Sea bunker

New diagrams of an underground doomsday complex on the Black Sea expose the Russian leader's obsession with survival.

www.businessinsider.com

>>>The GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator is a precision-guided, 30,000-pound "bunker buster" bomb used by the United States Air Force. <<<

GBU-57A/B MOP - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[highfigh]

If you're thinking about hitting his bunkers (first link below), I suggest a GBU-57A/B MOP (second link below).

>>>But, despite all these princely luxuries and castle-like defenses, the palace's builders appear to have neglected one crucial detail. They failed to hide plans showing two elaborate tunnels running beneath the palace complex — plans that any competent state-security apparatus would fight tooth-and-nail to keep secret.<<<

Revealed: Vladimir Putin's secret Black Sea bunker

New diagrams of an underground doomsday complex on the Black Sea expose the Russian leader's obsession with survival.

www.businessinsider.com

>>>The GBU-57A/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator is a precision-guided, 30,000-pound "bunker buster" bomb used by the United States Air Force. <<<

GBU-57A/B MOP - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Whatever it takes....

 

[Eppie]

It's hard to keep shipments of golden toilets secret.

 

[Trell]

>>>President Joe Biden informed G7 leaders on Friday that the US will support a joint effort with allies and partners to train Ukrainian pilots on fourth generation aircraft, including F-16s, a senior administration official tells CNN.

The training is not expected to happen in the US, the official said, and will likely happen entirely in Europe. But US personnel will participate in the training alongside allies and partners in Europe, the official said. It is expected to take several months to complete and the official said the hope is it will begin “in the coming weeks.”

The decision marks a stark turnaround for Biden, who said earlier this year that he did not believe that Ukraine needed the F-16s. The decision to support the training initiative came together very quickly, officials said, and was made by Biden following meetings with G7 leaders in Hiroshima, Japan, where the topic of F-16s to Ukraine was a key point of discussion. UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has been pushing particularly hard in recent days for countries that have the jets in their stockpile to send them to Ukraine so that the country can better defend itself against Russia’s daily aerial attacks. ...<<<

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/19/politics/biden-g7-f-16-ukraine/index.html

 

[Mr._Clark]

Another Russian who had been critical of the invasion of Ukraine died suddenly.

>>>A senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.<<<

Russian Deputy Minister Dies Suddenly After Slamming ‘Fascist Invasion’ of Ukraine

Russian Ministry of Science and Higher EducationA senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.In a statement, Russia’s Ministry...

news.yahoo.com

"Russian businessperson" appears to be a high risk occupation these days:

Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mtrycrafts]

Another Russian who had been critical of the invasion of Ukraine died suddenly.

>>>A senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.<<<

Russian Deputy Minister Dies Suddenly After Slamming ‘Fascist Invasion’ of Ukraine

Russian Ministry of Science and Higher EducationA senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.In a statement, Russia’s Ministry...

news.yahoo.com

"Russian businessperson" appears to be a high risk occupation these days:

Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's a Russian disease there.

 

[Trell]

Did Russia’s Interior Ministry forget that Lindsey Graham is a Trump lipstickle, and that a new Trump presidency is Russia's best hope to at least keep the Ukrainian areas they’ve brutally invaded?

>>>Russia’s Interior Ministry on Monday issued an arrest warrant for U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham following his comments related to the fighting in Ukraine.

In an edited video of his meeting on Friday with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that was released by Zelenskyy’s office, Graham, a Republican from South Carolina, noted that “the Russians are dying” and described the U.S. military assistance to the country as “the best money we’ve ever spent.”

While Graham appeared to have made the remarks in different parts of the conversation, the short video by Ukraine’s presidential office put them next to each other, causing outrage in Russia.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov commented Sunday by saying: “It’s hard to imagine a greater shame for the country than having such senators.”

The Investigative Committee, the country’s top criminal investigation agency, has moved to open a criminal inquiry against Graham, and the Interior Ministry followed up by issuing a warrant for his arrest as indicated Monday by its official record of wanted criminal suspects.<<<

Russia issues arrest warrant for Lindsey Graham over Ukraine comments

Russia based the charges on an edited video of his meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

www.politico.com

 

[Trell]

Oh my, lots of territorial changes in Europe!

Edit: I've marked the misnamed countries in red. CNN did not do any map-proofing, apparently, and that should be more than a little embarrassing for them.

For reference here is the YouTube clip I took my snapshot from. Here there are two talking heads from CNN "talking" but I very very much doubt CNN contributors with a background as high-level former militaries wouldn't have commented upon that misnaming of countries adjacent to a country in war.

 

[panteragstk]

Oh my, lots of territorial changes in Europe!

View attachment 62175

It'll get worse if Belarus is handed to Russia like the leadership seems to want.

 

[Trell]

It'll get worse if Belarus is handed to Russia like the leadership seems to want.

I was sort of thinking of Hungary and Serbia that I marked in red. CNN has given those countries the wrong name.

This is what CNN used a week ago before the European calamity.

 

[Mr._Clark]

This is not directly on point with regards the Russian invasion of Ukraine, but it's somewhat interesting and I doubt it merits a separate thread.

An AI-enabled military drone apparently went "full Terminator" in a simulated test and "killed" it's own operators to prevent the operators from issuing a no go command (the human go/no-go was designed to maintain human control in the loop). It's interesting that after they trained it not to kill the operator it then destroyed the communication tower so it would no longer transmit the "don't kill that threat" command.

>>>A report from the Royal Aerospace Society following the summit in May provided the following details about Col. Hamilton's remarks on this test:
"He notes that one simulated test saw an AI-enabled drone tasked with a SEAD mission to identify and destroy SAM sites, with the final go/no go given by the human. However, having been ‘reinforced’ in training that destruction of the SAM was the preferred option, the AI then decided that ‘no-go’ decisions from the human were interfering with its higher mission – killing SAMs – and then attacked the operator in the simulation. Said Hamilton: 'We were training it in simulation to identify and target a SAM threat. And then the operator would say yes, kill that threat. The system started realizing that while they did identify the threat at times the human operator would tell it not to kill that threat, but it got its points by killing that threat. So what did it do? It killed the operator. It killed the operator because that person was keeping it from accomplishing its objective.'"
"He went on: 'We trained the system – ‘Hey don’t kill the operator – that’s bad. You’re gonna lose points if you do that’. So what does it start doing? It starts destroying the communication tower that the operator uses to communicate with the drone to stop it from killing the target.'"<<<

Air Force Colonel Now Says Drone That Turned On Its Operator Was A "Thought Experiment"

A U.S. Air Force officer says he misspoke when describing a simulation involving a drone going rogue and attacking its controllers.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

An AI-enabled military drone apparently went "full Terminator" in a simulated test and "killed" it's own operators to prevent the operators from issuing a no go command (the human go/no-go was designed to maintain human control in the loop). It's interesting that after they trained it not to kill the operator it then destroyed the communication tower so it would no longer transmit the "don't kill that threat" command.

Col. Hamilton now says he mis-spoke and an air force spokesperson said he was describing a "hypothetical thought experiment" not a real or simulated test.

>>>Update: The Royal Aerospace Society says that Col. Tucker Hamilton has since reached out to them directly about this and "admits he 'mis-spoke' in his presentation at the Royal Aeronautical Society FCAS Summit and the 'rogue AI drone simulation' was a hypothetical 'thought experiment' from outside the military, based on plausible scenarios and likely outcomes rather than an actual USAF real-world simulation." . . .
"The Department of the Air Force has not conducted any such AI-drone simulations and remains committed to [the] ethical and responsible use of AI technology," Air Force Spokesperson Ann Stefanek has now also told The War Zone in a statement. "This was a hypothetical thought experiment, not a simulation."<<<

Air Force Colonel Now Says Drone That Turned On Its Operator Was A "Thought Experiment"

A U.S. Air Force officer says he misspoke when describing a simulation involving a drone going rogue and attacking its controllers.

www.thedrive.com

At the risk of getting all QAnony, I find myself wondering how an Air Force Colonel could have been so unclear about the situation. On the other hand, others were reportedly skeptical before the Air Force "clarified" the situation.

>>>I spent several hours this morning speaking to experts in both defence and AI, all of whom were very sceptical about Col Hamilton's claims, which were being widely reported before his clarification.

One defence expert told me Col Hamilton's original story seemed to be missing "important context", if nothing else. . . .

Steve Wright, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of the West of England, and an expert in unmanned aerial vehicles, told me jokingly that he had "always been a fan of the Terminator films" when I asked him for his thoughts about the story.

"In aircraft control computers there are two things to worry about: 'do the right thing' and 'don't do the wrong thing', so this is a classic example of the second," he said.

"In reality we address this by always including a second computer that has been programmed using old-style techniques, and this can pull the plug as soon as the first one does something strange."<<<

US Air Force denies AI drone attacked operator in test

A virtual experiment was described by a senior official at a conference, but he now says he "mis-spoke".

www.bbc.com

 

[mtrycrafts]

Oh my, lots of territorial changes in Europe!

Edit: I've marked the misnamed countries in red. CNN did not do any map-proofing, apparently, and that should be more than a little embarrassing for them.

View attachment 62175

For reference here is the YouTube clip I took my snapshot from. Here there are two talking heads from CNN "talking" but I very very much doubt CNN contributors with a background as high-level former militaries wouldn't have commented upon that misnaming of countries adjacent to a country in war.

Yep, hard to keep track of the territorial changes.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Col. Hamilton now says he mis-spoke and an air force spokesperson said he was describing a "hypothetical thought experiment" not a real or simulated test.

>>>Update: The Royal Aerospace Society says that Col. Tucker Hamilton has since reached out to them directly about this and "admits he 'mis-spoke' in his presentation at the Royal Aeronautical Society FCAS Summit and the 'rogue AI drone simulation' was a hypothetical 'thought experiment' from outside the military, based on plausible scenarios and likely outcomes rather than an actual USAF real-world simulation." . . .
"The Department of the Air Force has not conducted any such AI-drone simulations and remains committed to [the] ethical and responsible use of AI technology," Air Force Spokesperson Ann Stefanek has now also told The War Zone in a statement. "This was a hypothetical thought experiment, not a simulation."<<<

Air Force Colonel Now Says Drone That Turned On Its Operator Was A "Thought Experiment"

A U.S. Air Force officer says he misspoke when describing a simulation involving a drone going rogue and attacking its controllers.

www.thedrive.com

At the risk of getting all QAnony, I find myself wondering how an Air Force Colonel could have been so unclear about the situation. On the other hand, others were reportedly skeptical before the Air Force "clarified" the situation.

>>>I spent several hours this morning speaking to experts in both defence and AI, all of whom were very sceptical about Col Hamilton's claims, which were being widely reported before his clarification.

One defence expert told me Col Hamilton's original story seemed to be missing "important context", if nothing else. . . .

Steve Wright, professor of aerospace engineering at the University of the West of England, and an expert in unmanned aerial vehicles, told me jokingly that he had "always been a fan of the Terminator films" when I asked him for his thoughts about the story.

"In aircraft control computers there are two things to worry about: 'do the right thing' and 'don't do the wrong thing', so this is a classic example of the second," he said.

"In reality we address this by always including a second computer that has been programmed using old-style techniques, and this can pull the plug as soon as the first one does something strange."<<<

US Air Force denies AI drone attacked operator in test

A virtual experiment was described by a senior official at a conference, but he now says he "mis-spoke".

www.bbc.com

Right.

 

[highfigh]

Another Russian who had been critical of the invasion of Ukraine died suddenly.

>>>A senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.<<<

Russian Deputy Minister Dies Suddenly After Slamming ‘Fascist Invasion’ of Ukraine

Russian Ministry of Science and Higher EducationA senior Russian lawmaker who was reportedly critical of the invasion of Ukraine died over the weekend, the Russian government confirmed, in the latest unexpected fatality of a prominent figure since the war began.In a statement, Russia’s Ministry...

news.yahoo.com

"Russian businessperson" appears to be a high risk occupation these days:

Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think the talking is more dangerous- plenty of businessmen live longer without being 'suicided'.

 

[Mr._Clark]

It is being reported that the Ukrainian offensive has begun. Ukraine has not provide any specific information, so the reporting right now is largely based on Russian sources. Russian sources are of course not reliable, but the early reports are that Russia purportedly repelled an attack and Ukraine suffered heavy losses.

>>>The offensive around Novodonetsk began Sunday, according to Russian analysts, and the first wave of the attack largely failed.

Russia’s Defense Ministry claimed in a Telegram post that more than 250 Ukrainian service members were killed, while 16 tanks, 26 armored fighting vehicles, and 14 vehicles were destroyed.<<<

Ukraine’s counteroffensive appears to have started: Here’s what to know

Ukraine began launching attacks in the eastern Donetsk region over the weekend in what appears to be the first wave of Kyiv’s long-anticipated counteroffensive. Ukrainian commanders have sent…

thehill.com

I suspect the Ukrainian forces will attempt to use speed to outmaneuver the Russian heavy artillery to reduce the effectiveness of the advantage in numbers that Russia has. I have no inside information whatsoever, of course, so this is just speculation on my part.

 

[Mr._Clark]

The NYT is reporting that a Pro-Ukrainian group is suspected of sabotaging the NordStream pipelines. The article stresses that their sources stated that there is much that is not known.

>>>New intelligence reviewed by U.S. officials suggests that a pro-Ukrainian group carried out the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines last year . . . U.S. officials said that they had no evidence President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine or his top lieutenants were involved in the operation, or that the perpetrators were acting at the direction of any Ukrainian government officials. . . . U.S. officials said there was much they did not know about the perpetrators and their affiliations. . . .Officials said there were still enormous gaps in what U.S. spy agencies and their European partners knew about what transpired. . . .<<< (emphasis added)

Intelligence Suggests Pro-Ukrainian Group Sabotaged Pipelines, U.S. Officials Say (Published 2023)

New intelligence reporting amounts to the first significant known lead about who was responsible for the attack on the Nord Stream pipelines that carried natural gas from Russia to Europe.

www.nytimes.com

WaPo is also reporting that Ukraine apparently planned an attack on the Nord Stream pipeline. Based on this report, it's still not entirely clear Ukraine was behind the attack (some aspects of the attack are not entirely consistent with the reported plan).

>>>Three months before saboteurs bombed the Nord Stream natural gas pipeline, the Biden administration learned from a close ally that the Ukrainian military had planned a covert attack on the undersea network, using a small team of divers who reported directly to the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces.

Details about the plan, which have not been previously reported, were collected by a European intelligence service and shared with the CIA in June 2022. They provide some of the most specific evidence to date linking the government of Ukraine to the eventual attack in the Baltic Sea, which U.S. and Western officials have called a brazen and dangerous act of sabotage on Europe’s energy infrastructure.

The European intelligence reporting was shared on the chat platform Discord, allegedly by Air National Guard member Jack Teixeira. The Washington Post obtained a copy from one of Teixeira’s online friends. . . .

The European intelligence made clear that the would-be attackers were not rogue operatives. All those involved reported directly to Gen. Valerii Zaluzhnyi, the country’s highest-ranking military officer, who was put in charge so that Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelensky, wouldn’t know about the operation, the intelligence report said. <<<

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/