Integra DRX-8.4 11.2CH Flagship AVR Better than Denon?

[ban25]

Will do. Now that you said I am not 100% about smoothing. I might have used one at least for above 200hz))) If your chart is without any smoothing that is actually impressive.

I am migrating from Windows to my M1 MacBook and I started the free 14 days Dirac license. Having some issues with no sound on the Mac when I engage Dirac processor. Spent already 2 days out of 14)))

On the Mac, you need to make sure Dirac has permission to access the microphone and then *restart* Dirac, since it didn't pick this permission up for me the first time through. It will display a message in the top right corner that it is connected to the microphone.

For REW, I had to be careful to make sure it was actually using the HDMI output rather than just casting with AirPlay. Imagine my surprise the first time I unplugged the HDMI cable after an REW session and found the screen was still mirrored on the TV!

 

[Andrein]

On the Mac, you need to make sure Dirac has permission to access the microphone and then *restart* Dirac, since it didn't pick this permission up for me the first time through. It will display a message in the top right corner that it is connected to the microphone.

For REW, I had to be careful to make sure it was actually using the HDMI output rather than just casting with AirPlay. Imagine my surprise the first time I unplugged the HDMI cable after an REW session and found the screen was still mirrored on the TV!

Thank you. I am still preparing my environment and has not even plugged my mic in. I think I was trying to check that I have sound if I put Dirac processor without any filters yet into the chain on my Mac. Tried both standalone version and plugin to JRiver. As soon as I start Dirac processor sound on my Mac stops

 

[PENG]

Will do. Now that you said I am not 100% about smoothing. I might have used one at least for above 200hz))) If your chart is without any smoothing that is actually impressive.

I am migrating from Windows to my M1 MacBook and I started the free 14 days Dirac license. Having some issues with no sound on the Mac when I engage Dirac processor. Spent already 2 days out of 14)))

I would love to see them once you get organized.

A little bragging, if that's okay..., below are for the front left, right and the two subs running. I would think these are hard to beat by anyone, any system. Dirac Live's could not beat it so far in terms of smoothness from 20-200 Hz, but Dirac did better in impulse response and subjectively more transparent sounding to me.

1/12 th smoothing, mmp only:

9 mic positions average:

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't disagree, that's why I only show 20 to 200 or 300 Hz, though I typically show LRS, left, right, Subs just to see how they integrate and the effects of different XO points.

Yeah, I just think the subs sound so much better with EQ.

 

[Andrein]

I would love to see them once you get organized.

A little bragging, if that's okay..., below are for the front left, right and the two subs running. I would think these are hard to beat by anyone, any system. Dirac Live's could not beat it so far in terms of smoothness from 20-200 Hz, but Dirac did better in impulse response and subjectively more transparent sounding to me.

1/12 th smoothing, mmp only:

View attachment 61822

9 mic positions average:

View attachment 61824

My chart was not as good I think. Without smoothing in 20-200hz region the variation was around 6-7db with 15-40hz having the highest output. Smoothing did not make much difference (maybe 1 dB better). Above 200hz without smoothing I had a lot of micro dips which smoothing eliminated leaving the freqs within 5-7db again. So I am hoping to avoid those micro dips. I am happy with my bass even now

 

[ban25]

I have a challenging room (left wall all glass), but I'm thinking I should at least be able to use DLBC to better integrate the sub and eliminate the dips at the crossover frequency...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Any RC can only do so much - they are NOT Magical like some people claim. If the room is really bad, we have to treat it/fix it first before we do the RC.

 

[PENG]

My chart was not as good I think. Without smoothing in 20-200hz region the variation was around 6-7db with 15-40hz having the highest output. Smoothing did not make much difference (maybe 1 dB better). Above 200hz without smoothing I had a lot of micro dips which smoothing eliminated leaving the freqs within 5-7db again. So I am hoping to avoid those micro dips. I am happy with my bass even now

Based on my experience, I would guess that in most typical rectangular shape room like my two rooms, 6-7 dB variation (peak to peak) is easily obtainable it the Editor app is used with Ratbuddyssey or some other paid 3rd UI to reduce the dips and boost minor peaks slightly. The process should take less than an hour, depending on how much trial and error needed, and the time to run REW in between, to see the real efffects.

To achieve 2 dB or less peak to peak, i.e. +/- 1 dB in the 20 to even 150 Hz range, I had to spend many hours over days, not worth it and there is no way I could claim any audible benefits, vs +/- 3 dB peak variation in that range, especially if I put a Harman tilt in the deep bass range.

That's why I believe all those claims about how great RC, whether it's Audyssey, Dirac Live, ARCG or even Trinnov are mainly (say >75%?) based on people's eyes and brains, and/or their measurements such as REW graphs, if the graphs look great, it must sound great!!), not their ears, though I do believe for those who apply RC/EQ full range to 20,000 Hz, audible difference would be real, but in those cases, the users better know what they are doing... On this part (about the >75% brain based, not ears), I bet even @AcuDefTechGuy might agree with me.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Based on my experience, I would guess that in most typical rectangular shape room like my two rooms, 6-7 dB variation (peak to peak) is easily obtainable it the Editor app is used with Ratbuddyssey or some other paid 3rd UI to reduce the dips and boost minor peaks slightly. The process should take less than an hour, depending on how much trial and error needed, and the time to run REW in between, to see the real efffects.

To achieve 2 dB or less peak to peak, i.e. +/- 1 dB in the 20 to even 150 Hz range, I had to spend many hours over days, not worth it and there is no way I could claim any audible benefits, vs +/- 3 dB peak variation in that range, especially if I put a Harman tilt in the deep bass range.

That's why I believe all those claims about how great RC, whether it's Audyssey, Dirac Live, ARCG or even Trinnov are mainly (say >75%?) based on people's eyes and brains, and/or their measurements such as REW graphs, if the graphs look great, it must sound great!!), not their ears, though I do believe for those who apply RC/EQ full range to 20,000 Hz, audible difference would be real, but in those cases, the users better know what they are doing... On this part (about the >75% brain based, not ears), I bet even @AcuDefTechGuy might agree with me.

I think I aways agree with your posts.

The only "disagreement" has been on personal taste/preference, which is expected of EVERYONE.

For Room Correction and EQ, I have experienced much better bass (Day and Night improvement) when the subs are EQ. But for > 400Hz, I have never experienced any significant DAY-and-NIGHT improvement with any RC.

And I definitely ROLL MY EYES when I see people saying things like "this RC" is "MAGICAL" or "this AVP/Preamp" is "MAGICAL".

Like people saying going from the Anthem AVM60 to the AVM90 is "MAGICAL" or Marantz sounding warm and less detail is such a FACE-PALM joke.

 

[ban25]

Ok, I was able to get better results (Slot 3) by increasing the crossover on the subwoofer itself to 140 Hz and measuring all 14 points with Dirac, and setting a 90 Hz crossover.

 

[Andrein]

Ok, I was able to get better results (Slot 3) by increasing the crossover on the subwoofer itself to 140 Hz and measuring all 14 points with Dirac, and setting a 90 Hz crossover.
View attachment 61831

Would you mind share with and without Dirac without any smoothing?

 

[ban25]

Would you mind share with and without Dirac without any smoothing?

Sure:

 

[lovinthehd]

Ok, I was able to get better results (Slot 3) by increasing the crossover on the subwoofer itself to 140 Hz and measuring all 14 points with Dirac, and setting a 90 Hz crossover.
View attachment 61831

You normally use both the sub's low pass filter and the avr's bass management?

 

[ban25]

You normally use both the sub's low pass filter and the avr's bass management?

No, but I did mistakenly have it set to "Manual," which was causing the subwoofer's low pass filter to be activated.

 

[Andrein]

Sure:

View attachment 61833

Thank you! Interesting, Dirac reduced some dips but made some others worse. Did you set all speakers to large before calibration?

@PENG, don't you have similar micro dips even with Dirac activated?

 

[ban25]

Thank you! Interesting, Dirac reduced some dips but made some others worse. Did you set all speakers to large before calibration?

@PENG, don't you have similar micro dips even with Dirac activated?

Full Band / Double Bass is not an option when Dirac is enabled:

 

[Andrein]

Full Band / Double Bass is not an option when Dirac is enabled:

View attachment 61834

Did Dirac suggest crossover freqs or you need to set it manually? Your Dirac is within avr so in theory could find the optimal values given it has access to all avr parameters.

Playing with Dirac processor on my pc and MacBook. Managed to get sound from pc but MacBook still having issues. And even with pc the 2ch signal when getting to avr is not upmixed to 5.1 for some reason. Also sound is still dropping sometimes and the volume is much lower via Dirac virtual device that directly from pc to avr. Started looking at avrs with Dirac already))) Though ideally would like to test it first from computer

 

[ban25]

Did Dirac suggest crossover freqs or you need to set it manually? Your Dirac is within avr so in theory could find the optimal values given it has access to all avr parameters.

Playing with Dirac processor on my pc and MacBook. Managed to get sound from pc but MacBook still having issues. And even with pc the 2ch signal when getting to avr is not upmixed to 5.1 for some reason. Also sound is still dropping sometimes and the volume is much lower via Dirac virtual device that directly from pc to avr. Started looking at avrs with Dirac already))) Though ideally would like to test it first from computer

Yes, it set the crossovers for each speaker and suggested a 70 Hz crossover for the subwoofer in DLBC Complete. which I changed to 90 Hz.

 

[PENG]

Thank you! Interesting, Dirac reduced some dips but made some others worse. Did you set all speakers to large before calibration?

@PENG, don't you have similar micro dips even with Dirac activated?

Yes, but such micro dips don't really do harm to sound quality, according to the experts such as Dr. Toole. In my experience of using Dirac Live PC version, I cannot say conclusively which is better in terms of FR in the 20-200 Hz range. My general impression is that without tweaking with the apps, Audyssey did a little better in handling the major suck outs, but DL seems to do better in terms of overall smoothness, though in the deep bass range, I don't believe anyone can tell a difference even in single blind test.

In the mid and high frequency range, I prefer Dirac as it seems to improve transparency that is easily audible to me, especially on my desktop system.

 

[snakeeyes]

I think the PC version Dirac doesn’t downsample as much as the AVR based room correction. I could be wrong though. Not sure if that is a factor or not.