Integra DRX-8.4 11.2CH Flagship AVR Better than Denon?

[Eppie]

I didn't let the words "house sound" ruin the article for me. It's one small personal comment within what, for the most part, is a well written preview with good information.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd also include a USB audio input, as this could allow many people who use separate DAC's for music listening to dispense with them, assuming the AVR DAC is good enough. I think Monoprice recently released an AVR with a USB audio input.

I like the XLR outputs, as my power amp only has XLR inputs. But the amp has a pretty high input sensitivity of 2.71 Vrms, so I wonder how much output at low distortion these new Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer units can produce.

Made me curious. I have several avrs with usb audio input, but it is a limited input (mass storage device/MTP, with specific formatting and file types), not just a general input from a computer. I just looked at the Monoprice HTP-1 (a pre-pro, don't see an avr) and it indicates:

"Version 1.8 of the HTP-1 software introduces support for a USB audio input. Devices that produce USB
audio can be connected to the (house shaped) type B USB connector on the back panel. HTP-1
advertises itself as capable of accepting 24 or 32 bit audio at 48000Hz."

This Integra model seems to have the more typical avr usb input requirements, tho.

 

[ban25]

Made me curious. I have several avrs with usb audio input, but it is a limited input (mass storage device/MTP, with specific formatting and file types), not just a general input from a computer. I just looked at the Monoprice HTP-1 (a pre-pro, don't see an avr) and it indicates:

"Version 1.8 of the HTP-1 software introduces support for a USB audio input. Devices that produce USB
audio can be connected to the (house shaped) type B USB connector on the back panel. HTP-1
advertises itself as capable of accepting 24 or 32 bit audio at 48000Hz."

This Integra model seems to have the more typical avr usb input requirements, tho.

I have a USB input on my Rotel A14 that supports up to 24/384 and works quite nicely with Roon.

 

[snakeeyes]

House sound. Wonder how that is measured or proven. Sounds like another article that could be written scientifically…

 

[MandM]

Still made in Malaysia I see...I'm assuming this an Onkyo (oops...Audiovoxx) owned factory?

 

[lovinthehd]

Still made in Malaysia I see...I'm assuming this an Onkyo (oops...Audiovoxx) owned factory?

IIRC the Malaysian plants came with the Pioneer acquisition....or is it Pionkyeer or Inteonker or ?

 

[MandM]

My Onkyo was made in Malaysia before the Pioneer acquistion...but who knows?

 

[lovinthehd]

I think I'm maybe thinking of primary area for Yamaha now that I think about it. Not a particularly important point in any case. You can have crappy factories anwhere, even in the US.

 

[PENG]

I think I'm maybe thinking of primary area for Yamaha now that I think about it. Not a particularly important point in any case. You can have crappy factories anwhere, even in the US.

Many years ago it was anything "made in Japan" that made people think of those tiny tin can like Toyotas, in recent years it's "made in China" (might have been Korean/e.g. Hyundai before that...), probably soon enough it might be "made in Vietnam". Talk about misconception! The fact is, nowadays, made in where wouldn't really matter because of technological advance, and quality programs associated with the same. It boils down to the manufacturer's quality policy/system, they can make it just about anywhere and still maintain the same quality standards.

A made in Vietnam or China Marantz could be of the best quality and a made in USA product such as one of those power amps reviewed on Audioholics.com last year (or the year before?) could be bad, or couldn't even meet their own advertised specs (by a wide margin).

 

[PENG]

So it’s “easy” to “beat the system” to get the best SINAD.

But how many more AVR will they sell by getting the best measurements after increasing the cost of production?

I don't know how many, but I think they will sell more. For someone considering a $6,000 flagship AVR (you did it once right??), he/she is not going to be turned away by $200 (if that, more likely just $150) from going from a New japan Radio (currently used by D+M) volume control IC to a flagship Cirrus Logic volume IC and from the ES9018K2M to ES9038Pro (yes the price jump on this one is over $100 but may be less for D+M).

It would be a huge psychological boost for the high end/audiophile oriented groups who would pay more for ownership pride regardless of audibility. I have been paying for the 4 wheel, or all wheel drive features that I never needed or used, and you have been paying a lot more for the Lexus vs Toyota thing too iirc.

Same for the upper middle models, but for those, the cost increase would be just incremental. For example, Yamaha has been using better DAC, volume, and opamp chips for years. They didn't even measure better, but they had the bragging right, even partially contributed to the myth that ESS Sabre DCA chips means better, than Onkyo, Denon, Marantz's that use the AKM, TI chips, when in fact ESS DAC has been making chips that are inferior to AKM and TI's, depending of which models are used.

All D+M has to do is to update their marketing material if and when they upgrade those chips, the professional reviewers, youtubers and many forum regulars will do the rest to spread and create the new hype.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't know how many, but I think they will sell more. For someone considering a $6,000 flagship AVR (you did it once right??), he/she is not going to be turned away by $200 (if that, more likely just $150) from going from a New japan Radio (currently used by D+M) volume control IC to a flagship Cirrus Logic volume IC and from the ES9018K2M to ES9038Pro (yes the price jump on this one is over $100 but may be less for D+M).

It would be a huge psychological boost for the high end/audiophile oriented groups who would pay more for ownership pride regardless of audibility. I have been paying for the 4 wheel, or all wheel drive features that I never needed or used, and you have been paying a lot more for the Lexus vs Toyota thing too iirc.

Same for the upper middle models, but for those, the cost increase would be just incremental. For example, Yamaha has been using better DAC, volume, and opamp chips for years. They didn't even measure better, but they had the bragging right, even partially contributed to the myth that ESS Sabre DCA chips means better, than Onkyo, Denon, Marantz's that use the AKM, TI chips, when in fact ESS DAC has been making chips that are inferior to AKM and TI's, depending of which models are used.

All D+M has to do is to update their marketing material if and when they upgrade those chips, the professional reviewers, youtubers and many forum regulars will do the rest to spread and create the new hype.

Yeah. True. At this level, it’s pretty much about measurements and hype. Get the best parts, get the best measurements, get all the hype, sell more.

 

[MandM]

a made in USA product such as one of those power amps reviewed on Audioholics.com last year (or the year before?) could be bad, or couldn't even meet their own advertised specs (by a wide margin).

Do tell!

 

[gene]

Since Pioneer and Integra are clones of each other, I'm combining both flagship receiver preview articles into the same forum thread. Most of the features of the Integra DRX-8.4 are carried over to Pioneer. Is the new Pioneer VSX-LX805 a poor man's Integra?

Read: Pioneer Elite VSX-LX805 - Poor Man's Integra?

 

[PENG]

Looks (can be deceiving, naturally...) to me they are at least twins, if not identical twins. More so than D+M's, as in this case, neither one has the likes of the silly HDAMs.

 

[jlmoon]

This seems like it may be one of the few options to easily optimize multiple subs (DIRAC multiple subwoofers). Still pretty spendy from my perspective.

 

[dlaloum]

Still made in Malaysia I see...I'm assuming this an Onkyo (oops...Audiovoxx) owned factory?

Sharp owned factory I believe - Sharp is the other partner in PAC with Voxx... 25% Sharp, 75% Voxx

 

[dlaloum]

Some comments posted elsewhere with regards to Dirac ART (from the Dirac ART Webinar with StormAudio)

The Basic StormAudio device is (will be) limited to 10 "helper speakers" per speaker being assisted - the flagship processors will not have this limitation.
So we are starting to see/hear about processing limitations, presumably related to CPU power and possibly available RAM on the devices.

Specific mention that with full range speakers and ART a seperate Subwoofer is not an absolute requirement - which means the LFE channel is definitely mixed in through the other speakers and the bass from the main channels is mixed into the sub channels - they all work cooperatively.

Why mention this on this thread... I have a strong expectation that the flagship Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer models will support ART, either late this year or early next year, although the manufacturer has been silent on this.
However, its limitations will be driven by the power of its onboard processors - which will definitely be able to run DL-ART... but with what limitations, is yet to be seen.
Presumably in a 7.2.4 setup, it would be perfectly reasonable to only use the base layer and subs as "helper speakers"... which on its own, already take us to 9 helpers.... and heights are typically even more frequency range constrained than surrounds (which might even be full range) - and therefore less usefull given the constraint of ART to 150Hz and less.

 

[ban25]

Why mention this on this thread... I have a strong expectation that the flagship Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer models will support ART, either late this year or early next year, although the manufacturer has been silent on this.
However, its limitations will be driven by the power of its onboard processors - which will definitely be able to run DL-ART... but with what limitations, is yet to be seen.
Presumably in a 7.2.4 setup, it would be perfectly reasonable to only use the base layer and subs as "helper speakers"... which on its own, already take us to 9 helpers.... and heights are typically even more frequency range constrained than surrounds (which might even be full range) - and therefore less usefull given the constraint of ART to 150Hz and less.

The base Storm Audio systems run with a pair of Sharc4 DSPs, while the top-end processors have quad-Sharc4s onboard. Do we know what the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra models will have onboard in terms of DSP?

 

[dlaloum]

The base Storm Audio systems run with a pair of Sharc4 DSPs, while the top-end processors have quad-Sharc4s onboard. Do we know what the Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra models will have onboard in terms of DSP?

According to the marketing blurbs - "Quad Core Processor" but what processor? what speed? what power?.... not a lot out there!

 

[ban25]

According to the marketing blurbs - "Quad Core Processor" but what processor? what speed? what power?.... not a lot out there!

Indeed!