Onkyo Tx-Rz50 vs Denon X3800H

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J

jamiesaun85

Audiophyte
Rylan said:
I have this tv in a 85”https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-85-class-q70a-series-qled-4k-uhd-smart-tizen-tv/6452061.p?skuId=6452061#anchor=productVariations

I started off with a sound bar as well. I purchased this one.


As well as 2 rear speakers and a sub. After spending 2K on the sound-bar setup and doing a lot of research, I decided to go down the rabbit hole myself. It’s been a blast, and I’m so happy I did.

As for the Onkyo RZ50, Dirac never did work. I tried many things, called Onkyo and I never could get it working. I was excited to try Dirac, but it wasn’t something that ever worked.

I used the Onkyo for a month. The second month I used the Denon X4700H. I purchased the Secrets of Audyssey ebook for $10 which was very helpful.

Simple Home Cinema - Bringing Your Entertainment to Life

Secrets of Audyssey: The Ultimate Setup Guide for Your Denon and Marantz Receiver
simplehomecinema.com

I also watched weeks worth of Audioholics videos and educated myself as much as I could to get set up with Audyssey. Anything else I needed help with I asked questions here. Everyone here has been great and extremely helpful. I still have so much to learn, but I feel I’m off to a great start. I also watched all of Hometheaterguru videos on his channel on YouTube and learned all about placement of speakers and room treatments. His videos were very detailed. I spent a month just on educating myself on speaker placement. There is a lot to learn with Home Audio, but it‘s been worth it
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Awesome dude. We had very similar paths, for similar reasons, and ended up with similar gear, all in the exact same timeframe. Glad its working out for ya. I'm fairly happy too.

Dirac didn't work for me either for a couple days. The PC just couldn't see it on the network, no matter what I tried. Then all the sudden it just worked.

This Denon sounds crazy good with music. The best music has ever sounded in this room, and I've lived hear for 31 years. Movies, I'm struggling with a little. I'm going to try to roughly curve the speakers natural frequency, see how that goes.
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
Hey guys!


I’ve been working the last 2 weeks removing areas in my sheetrock and installing 12 Guage wire (8 runs) all throughout my home theater room. Been a very detailed process, and not easy at times, but it’s all coming together nicely. I installed a total of 300 ft of wire.

I’m looking for tips to make a cavity of some sort to place above my (4) RSL C34E MK2 Atmos ceiling speakers. I’ve heard to use Denim insulation. I need something that can create a cavity that can dome above my speaker , and also what would be good options for the soundproofing material. I don’t need anything fancy, just something that holds up. I have about 14” of space above my speaker to work with. I appreciate an advice
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
I am in need of some pre amp suggestions. I have my 4 atmos speakers in place. I also have 2 rear surrounds that I purchased and set up, even though I’m not currently able to power them without disabling 2 of my atmos. I believe I have 2 options. Purchase an amp that allows me to power just the rear surrounds, or purchase a more expensive more powerful amp that can power my LCR while using my AVR to power the other channels. The second option obviously would be the better option, but I’m thinking going with the first option is likely the one I can currently afford. I don’t know what brands or which amps would best suit my needs. Can anyone suggest some budget friendly amps that would work for either option and share any links so I can compare pricing and also so I get direction to an amp that would be worth my needs
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Rylan said:
I am in need of some pre amp suggestions. I have my 4 atmos speakers in place. I also have 2 rear surrounds that I purchased and set up, even though I’m not currently able to power them without disabling 2 of my atmos. I believe I have 2 options. Purchase an amp that allows me to power just the rear surrounds, or purchase a more expensive more powerful amp that can power my LCR while using my AVR to power the other channels. The second option obviously would be the better option, but I’m thinking going with the first option is likely the one I can currently afford. I don’t know what brands or which amps would best suit my needs. Can anyone suggest some budget friendly amps that would work for either option and share any links so I can compare pricing and also so I get direction to an amp that would be worth my needs
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I think we can only suggest something that will work well for you if we know your power requirements. You can easily determine that with an online calculator if you know the distances, sensitivities and impedance of those speakers, and of course your desired spl from them will also be a huge factor.
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic Field Marshall
PENG said:
I think we can only suggest something that will work well for you if we know your power requirements. You can easily determine that with an online calculator if you know the distances, sensitivities and impedance of those speakers, and of course your desired spl from them will also be a huge factor.
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We don't need to overthink this as @Rylan said he can only afford a small Amp. It sounds like the need is for an Amp to power a pair of RSL C34E MK2 Atmos speakers (for now). Their Specs say:
  • Sensitivity: 89dB SPL (1W/1M)
  • Recommended Amplifier Power: 25 – 150 watts
I have no good references for Atmos Speaker needs but I'd guess 50 – 75 watts would be sufficient. Perhaps another member can chime in with real data.

I did a little work on an SPL Calculator using the above Data and the previous distance info @Rylan provided. I then arbitrarily plugged in a 50 watt Amplifier Power and the resulting SPL at the listening position is over 108 dB!

SPL for at RSL C34E MK2 Atmos Speakers at 5 feet.jpg


Accepted guidelines for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH-AINSI and CDC, before Hearing Damage occurs for 106 dB is <4 minutes. For 109 dB it's less than 2 so I'd guess at 108 dB it's less than 3 minutes.

So I don't think you'd go anywhere near that loud even if the 34E Mk2's can get there. So I'd be looking for a 50 Watt per channel Amp. I'm wondering if one of those little Class D amps from Fosi (?) would suffice.

I hope this is helpful.
 
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R

Rylan

Audioholic
Thank you. The C34e’s you mentioned are my atmos and I will likely use the AVR for those 4 channels.

My front Left and Right speakers are Heco Aurora 1000’s

HECO Aurora 1000 Floorstanding Speaker

Shop the HECO Aurora 1000 Floorstanding Speaker with Free 2-Day shipping and Price Guarantee at Audio Advice!
www.audioadvice.com

My center speaker is RSL’s CG23M

My 2 rear surrounds are RSL’s CG3M
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
-Jim- said:
We don't need to overthink this as @Rylan said he can only afford a small Amp. It sounds like the need is for an Amp to power a pair of RSL C34E MK2 Atmos speakers (for now). Their Specs say:
  • Sensitivity: 89dB SPL (1W/1M)
  • Recommended Amplifier Power: 25 – 150 watts
I have no good references for Atmos Speaker needs but I'd guess 50 – 75 watts would be sufficient. Perhaps another member can chime in with real data.

I did a little work on an SPL Calculator using the above Data and the previous distance info @Rylan provided. I then arbitrarily plugged in a 50 watt Amplifier Power and the resulting SPL at the listening position is over 108 dB!

View attachment 61079

Accepted guidelines for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH-AINSI and CDC, before Hearing Damage occurs for 106 dB is <4 minutes. For 109 dB it's less than 2 so I'd guess at 108 dB it's less than 3 minutes.

So I don't think you'd go anywhere near that loud even if the 34E Mk2's can get there. So I'd be looking for a 50 Watt per channel Amp. I'm wondering if one of those little Class D amps from Fosi (?) would suffice.

I hope this is helpful.
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I will look into the Fosi class D and check it out. Thank you for that suggestion
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic Field Marshall
Rylan said:
I will look into the Fosi class D and check it out. Thank you for that suggestion
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I don't know why you say: "The C34e’s you mentioned are my atmos and I will likely use the AVR for those 4 channels."

I'm basing this on you having a 7.2.4 system as I can't remember where you are now and I can't find it skimming over the 19 pages in this Thread.

I'd let the Denon 4700 power the LCR and process for the small Amp. I'd be looking into using a secondary small Class D amp for either a pair of Surrounds (probably rear), or Atmos Speakers - and certainly not your LCR.

But that's just my opinion.
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
-Jim- said:
I don't know why you say: "The C34e’s you mentioned are my atmos and I will likely use the AVR for those 4 channels."

I'm basing this on you having a 7.2.4 system as I can't remember where you are now and I can't find it skimming over the 19 pages in this Thread.

I'd let the Denon 4700 power the LCR and process for the small Amp. I'd be looking into using a secondary small Class D amp for either a pair of Surrounds (probably rear), or Atmos Speakers - and certainly not your LCR.

But that's just my opinion.
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I was just indicating that I didn’t plan to use a small class D amp for the atmos, but was thinking like you said, about using it for the the rear surrounds.

I currently have speakers for a 7.1.4
Just need something to power the rear surrounds now.

I do recall someone suggesting to me a couple months ago about getting an Outlaw 5000 amp and using this to power my LCR and then everything else through the AVR. This is why I had that option in my thoughts
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd look at it as two different type of amp purchases. One, just something adequate for 2ch of modest power. Two, a significant amp for the LCR channels, where I'd take the opportunity to get a significantly more powerful amp. The Outlaw 5000 amp is more like what you have in avr now rather than a significant step up for the mains, so might be a middle of the road choice in my view. No real suggestions on a low power class D power amp, not something I've looked for, altho I'd definitely check for bench tests as many of the power claims can be a bit out there on the cheap ones.
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
I appreciate the help.

This might be a dumb question, but I just don’t know enough about amps. I have had this amp laying around in a box that I received a few years back for potential car audio use.

Can this be used for my home theater, or is it strictly for car audio only? I’m guessing
It wouldn’t work, but I needed to ask

Dual Electronics 2ch 640 Watt Amp, New - Walmart.com

Buy Dual Electronics 2ch 640 Watt Amp, New at Walmart.com
www.walmart.com

Specs Below:
Upgrade the quality of your vehicle's stereo system with the Dual XPR520 2-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier. It provides 400W of maximum power and also features an extruded aluminum constructed heatsink to keep the unit running cool. A MOSFET power supply operates efficiently while the variable bass boost give you greater control over audio output and quality. Short circuit and reverse polarity protection add safety and LED indicators show the current status of the amplifier. In addition, the RCA and speaker wire inputs make the xpr520 dual amp watts easier to connect to your system. The controls are side-mounted, making them more conveniently accessible.

Dual XPR520 2-Channel Bridgeable Amplifier:
  • 400W max power
  • 2 channels
  • MOSFET power supply
  • Extruded aluminum heatsink
  • 50 watts x 2 at 4 ohms or 75 watts x 2 at 2 ohms continuous power
  • Variable HP/LP crossovers
  • RCA and speaker wire inputs
  • Add to your vehicle's sound performance with this 2-channel Dual 400W amp
  • Easily accessible side-mounted controls
  • Short circuit and reverse polarity protection
  • LED status indicators
  • Variable bass boost
 
-Jim-

-Jim-

Audioholic Field Marshall
@Rylan While technically possible if you had a solid regulated 12 Volt DC Power Supply with sufficient current capability, the specs shown on your link advise:
  • 50 watts x 2 at 4 ohms or 75 watts x 2 at 2 ohms continuous power
So assuming it can power 8 ohm loads I'd expect the power to drop to less that what you need for your rear speakers.

Amazing for something that claims it's got 400W max power, isn't it?

By the way, I wouldn't expect it to make any of it's output power claims at reasonable (or acceptable) distortion levels for your use.

Sorry, but I'd look for something else.
 
R

Rylan

Audioholic
-Jim- said:
@Rylan While technically possible if you had a solid regulated 12 Volt DC Power Supply with sufficient current capability, the specs shown on your link advise:
  • 50 watts x 2 at 4 ohms or 75 watts x 2 at 2 ohms continuous power
So assuming it can power 8 ohm loads I'd expect the power to drop to less that what you need for your rear speakers.

Amazing for something that claims it's got 400W max power, isn't it?

By the way, I wouldn't expect it to make any of it's output power claims at reasonable (or acceptable) distortion levels for your use.

Sorry, but I'd look for something else.
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I appreciate the help. Thank you for steering me the right direction. I will be on the lookout for something that fits for home theater and will work for my rear sureounds since I’m trying to keep cost down
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Man the brand Dual has devolved so much since the time I had a well respected Dual (vinyl) record player.
 
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