Electric Vehicles?

[mtrycrafts]

Interesting, I wonder what it is with a breaker panel that wears out ?

All the electrons are depleted.
Am surprised it still powers the house.

Nothing but two down legs, wire and circuit breakers. Now I do understand in time breakers themselves do go 'soft', especially GFI breakers but replacing the whole panel ?? There was a brand of panel years ago (forgot the name) that was known to have an issue but my 43 year old Square D is not one of them.

I've two buds that are electricians, I'll have to inquire ............

Agree. My panels are 30 years old and will be in place when I reach expiration date.

 

[mtrycrafts]

My present breaker panel has 30 slots – all are occupied. For a new panel, the next size up is 42 slots. The electrician also told me my panel is 29 years old, going on 30. He claims breaker panels should be kept no longer than 25 years. It's also a long run from my panel, through the basement to the back of the house, to the garage. Romex capable of carrying the current for a wall charger box will also be expensive. All this will cost me. EEEK!

He left me with 3 estimates, from cheap to expensive. All involve a new larger breaker panel. The most expensive involves a sub-panel in the garage allowing me to install one wall charger now, and another one later.

And none of that includes a car wall charger box. I have to supply my own. Lowes & Home Depot sell a large assortment of them. At this point, I'm ignorant of what to choose. Who knows where I can learn some basics of Level 2 chargers that are capable of recharging a Volvo C40 with 75kWh batteries over ~8 hours? @j_garcia ?

One thing to remember is that the electrician could replace some of the breakers with slim line that could give you that slot for 240V breaker.
And, if you have LEDs all over the house, you may be able to double up a line or two.

 

[Swerd]

Interesting, I wonder what it is with a breaker panel that wears out? Nothing but two down legs, wire and circuit breakers. Now I do understand in time breakers themselves do go 'soft', especially GFI breakers but replacing the whole panel ?? There was a brand of panel years ago (forgot the name) that was known to have an issue but my 43 year old Square D is not one of them.

Good question. I've wondered the same thing. Maybe SquareD mounted a well-funded lobbying campaign to change the building code.

But my main question is what kind of on-wall charger box do I get. The choices at Home Depot or Lowes are many and bewildering. Prices range from about $300 to $800. There seems to be choices in amperage, ranging from 32 amps to 50 – maybe higher. I need to find a web page about buying a Level 2 car charger for home use, for the complete dummy who doesn't want to be a dummy, but also doesn't want a Master's degree on the subject.

I thought I was retired and no longer had to deal with this crap. The car has something called HomeLink that I can use to open my garage door instead of a remote control. I actually did find instructions to set that up on my Volvo phone app, so there's hope. But maybe tomorrow.

I've been far busier than I thought I'd be with a new car. It's more like getting a new computer where nothing is set up yet. It requires new usernames/passwords for both me and my wife for Volvo's phone app, Google (Volvo uses a Google operating system), and Chargepoint+ (to use their commercial chargers), and probably more. However, on the up side, we both can drive it.

I've two buds that are electricians, I'll have to inquire ............

Please let me know what you find out.

 

[Swerd]

One thing to remember is that the electrician could replace some of the breakers with slim line that could give you that slot for 240V breaker.
And, if you have LEDs all over the house, you may be able to double up a line or two.

I tried asking those questions. No deal.

I have an 240V electric dryer circuit I don't use because my dryer is gas powered and uses normal 120V to spin the drum. Why not use extend that 240V line into the garage? Again, no deal.

Once you get a licensed electrician to give you an estimate, it involves getting a permit and inspection from the county. I couldn't sell the house with a non-code modification, even if it was done safely. The CODE abides.

 

[Swerd]

All the electrons are depleted.
Am surprised it still powers the house.

Because of all that oxygen-free speaker wire I have in my audio system, it sucked out the oxygen from all my 29-year-old Romex.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Good question. I've wondered the same thing. Maybe SquareD mounted a well-funded lobbying campaign to change the building code.

But my main question is what kind of on-wall charger box do I get. The choices at Home Depot or Lowes are many and bewildering. Prices range from about $300 to $800. There seems to be choices in amperage, ranging from 32 amps to 50 – maybe higher. I need to find a web page about buying a Level 2 car charger for home use, for the complete dummy who doesn't want to be a dummy, but also doesn't want a Master's degree on the subject.

I thought I was retired and no longer had to deal with this crap. The car has something called HomeLink that I can use to open my garage door instead of a remote control. I actually did find instructions to set that up on my Volvo phone app, so there's hope. But maybe tomorrow.

I've been far busier than I thought I'd be with a new car. It's more like getting a new computer where nothing is set up yet. It requires new usernames/passwords for both me and my wife for Volvo's phone app, Google (Volvo uses a Google operating system), and Chargepoint+ (to use their commercial chargers), and probably more. However, on the up side, we both can drive it.
Please let me know what you find out.

I would suggest checking with your Volvo manual what is the max amp rating for charging that car. Don't forget downrating a breaker by 20% to satisfy the need. Don't know what a Level2 charger needs.
If the car takes 40A@240V, a 50A breaker is what you would need.
check and see if any of the breakers can be converted to slim lines.

Do you have electric rates that charges for peak draw at certain times? That is where a programmable charger is great.

 

[Swerd]

I would suggest checking with your Volvo manual what is the max amp rating for charging that car. Don't forget downrating a breaker by 20% to satisfy the need. Don't know what a Level2 charger needs.

If the car takes 40A@240V, a 50A breaker is what you would need. Check and see if any of the breakers can be converted to slim lines.

All are reasonable questions – for tomorrow. I will check on my Volvo phone app to see what it says about amp ratings for chargers.

Do you have electric rates that charges for peak draw at certain times? That is where a programmable charger is great.

Yes, late at night. If I understand things – and I'm not at all sure I do – my car already has that software for programmable charge timing.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I tried asking those questions. No deal.

I have an 240V electric dryer circuit I don't use because my dryer is gas powered and uses normal 120V to spin the drum. Why not use extend that 240V line into the garage? Again, no deal.

Once you get a licensed electrician to give you an estimate, it involves getting a permit and inspection from the county. I couldn't sell the house with a non-code modification, even if it was done safely. The CODE abides.

Did you ask why you cannot replace breakers with slim lines? Or, why the exiting dryer breaker will not work?
Perhaps the panel is only rated for so much current draw in that panel?
Perhaps that Level 2 may need more current than the dryer breaker in which case the wire would have to be replaced with a higher-level breaker.Still cheaper perhaps than replacing the panel and rewiring it all.

Will the car charge on 120V? Yes, takes longer for sure. What else would it do when you are all asleep.

Another thought on that dryer circuit. It usually takes 30A breaker. The wire to the outlet should be enough, 4 wires, to wire a 4-prong outlet. Or a 3-prong outlet, whichever.

 

[Mikado463]

one more question/assumption, is your house 200amp service ?

 

[Swerd]

one more question/assumption, is your house 200amp service ?

Yes, my house has 200 amp service.

Did you ask why you cannot replace breakers with slim lines?

I already have two slim breakers for added lighting circuits. The electrician said they may be OK for lighting circuit, but not for a 240V car charger circuit. He recommended against using slim lines to further extend the breaker panel.

Or, why the exiting dryer breaker will not work? Perhaps that Level 2 may need more current than the dryer breaker in which case the wire would have to be replaced with a higher-level breaker. Still cheaper perhaps than replacing the panel and rewiring it all. Another thought on that dryer circuit. It usually takes 30A breaker. The wire to the outlet should be enough, 4 wires, to wire a 4-prong outlet. Or a 3-prong outlet, whichever.

The dryer line is 240V with a 30A breaker. According to the electrician, code prevents me from selling my house with that 240V dryer outlet disabled.

The charger line will be 240V with 50A or 60A, not sure right now. It will use Romex rated for 60A. The plan is to run the 240V line from the basement to the detached, unheated, 2-car garage. Inside the garage will be a smaller sub-panel capable of supplying two EV chargers. At present, I will get one wall charger with a 23' long cable to reach the car. The sub-panel will make it easy to add a 2nd charger in the future.

Will the car charge on 120V? Yes, takes longer for sure. What else would it do when you are all asleep.

All EVs can recharge with 120V. But they are very slow (days) to fully recharge an EV. My car is said to be capable of a full recharge in ~8 hours, at home with a 240V Level 2 charger.

If anyone else wants to know more about EV wall chargers, I found these links were useful:
https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/

https://www.autoweek.com/gear/g37937256/best-electric-vehicle-charger/

Cheaper chargers, for ~$400, have no software to select different amperage, or to select a time frame to begin & end charging, allowing lower electricity rates.

I chose the ChargePoint charger. Amazon has it for $919. My Volvo dealer gave me a link to order it directly from ChargePoint for $750. It allows the user to select the amperage from 16 to 50A, making that variable easy to deal with. It may be overkill, but at this point, I don't really know what features I'll need, until I've done it a few times. In the long run, extra flexibility never hurts.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Yes, my house has 200 amp service.
I already have two slim breakers for added lighting circuits. The electrician said they may be OK for lighting circuit, but not for a 240V car charger circuit. He recommended against using slim lines to further extend the breaker panel.


The dryer line is 240V with a 30A breaker. According to the electrician, code prevents me from selling my house with that 240V dryer outlet disabled.

The charger line will be 240V with 50A or 60A, not sure right now. It will use Romex rated for 60A. The plan is to run the 240V line from the basement to the detached 2-car garage. Inside the garage will be a smaller sub-panel capable of supplying two EV chargers. At present, I will get one wall charger with a 23' long cable to reach the car. The sub-panel will make it easy to add a 2nd charger in the future.
All EVs can recharge with 120V. But they are very slow (days) to fully recharge an EV. My car is said to be capable of a full recharge in ~8 hours, at home with a 240V Level 2 charger.

If anyone else wants to know more about EV wall chargers, I found these links were useful:
https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a39917614/best-home-ev-chargers-tested/
https://www.autoweek.com/gear/g37937256/best-electric-vehicle-charger/
Cheaper chargers, for ~$400, have no software to select different amperage, or to select a time frame to begin & end charging, allowing lower electricity rates.

I chose the ChargePoint charger. Amazon has it for $919. My Volvo dealer gave me a link to order it directly from ChargePoint for $750. It allows the user to select the amperage from 16 to 50A, making that variable easy to deal with. It may be overkill, but at this point, I don't really know what features I'll need, until I've done it a few times. In the long run, extra flexibility never hurts.

Thanks.
At least you can charge on 120V until you are fully wired for 240.
I really didn't mean slim breaker for the car charger just for other circuits, 15A/20A breakers to make room for your car charging breaker so you don't have to replace the whole panel. But if you are looking and live long enough to need another charger then this is OBE.
Does the electrician saying that each house must have an electric dryer breaker regardless of needing one?
If not, why cannot one be repurposed with correct wire and breaker for something else, I wonder.

ps. while this is theoretical, how often do you expect to run the car to near empty before recharging it unless you are on a trip coming home?

 

[Swerd]

Does the electrician saying that each house must have an electric dryer breaker regardless of needing one? If not, why cannot one be repurposed with correct wire and breaker for something else, I wonder.

If the house was originally built with a 240V dryer line, and inspected as such, it must be sold that way. Buyers & inspectors expect to see that.

While this is theoretical, how often do you expect to run the car to near empty before recharging it unless you are on a trip coming home?

Until I have at least half a year experience with this, that answer will remain theoretical. One response in this long thread described how he owns 2 EVs. He has one 240V Level 2 charger and one 120V Level 1 charger in his garage, and finds that good enough.

As fully rechargeable EV batteries get larger, I believe Level 2 chargers will be the norm for home, if they aren't already. They can do a full charge overnight. Level 1 chargers are too puny to use regularly for EVs, but possibly alright for plug-in hybrids with their smaller batteries. That's easy to accomplish if you own a home with a garage or carport. Not so easy for apartments or condos. I can also see that wiring for car chargers will become standard for new construction.

 

[Mikado463]

Spoke with one of my electrician friends today regarding the panel replacement question and he said so long as it's not one of the recalled Schneider or Square D panels and you have the 200 amp service with available space and no obvious signs of breaker / wire issues then it wouldn't be mandatory.

When I told him your panel was full and you were going to add a circuit for EV charging he said, 'now's the time to change it out' !

 

[Swerd]

Spoke with one of my electrician friends today regarding the panel replacement question and he said so long as it's not one of the recalled Schneider or Square D panels and you have the 200 amp service with available space and no obvious signs of breaker / wire issues then it wouldn't be mandatory.

When I told him your panel was full and you were going to add a circuit for EV charging he said, 'now's the time to change it out' !

Thanks, I appreciate the info. I seem to have no other option but to change it out now. I doubt if it will cost less in the future.

While searching online for any & all info on the subject of installing a home car charger, I did stumble across info about a state tax rebate from Maryland. I didn't read all the details, but I saved the link. And I'll keep records of all my expenses for when I file my 2022 Income taxes.

 

[Swerd]

For all those interested, I found this link that shows the electric utility rebates, and state or federal government tax credits that are available in your state. This includes rebates/credits for EV purchase and for home EV chargers.

Find EV and EV charger rebates, credits, and other incentives | ChargePoint

Save money through EV or EV charger tax credits, rebates, and other incentives for home or commercial & fleets across each state with our search tool.

www.chargepoint.com

 

[GO-NAD!]

All the electrons are depleted.
Am surprised it still powers the house.


Agree. My panels are 30 years old and will be in place when I reach expiration date.

My house is about 60 years old and is still rockin' the original 100-amp fuse panel.

 

[Mikado463]

My house is about 60 years old and is still rockin' the original 100-amp fuse panel.

now that I would change out, wiring too perhaps ?

 

[GO-NAD!]

now that I would change out, wiring too perhaps ?

Eventually. Right now, we have an oil-fired forced hot air furnace for heating. When the furnace requires replacement within the next few years, we will go with a heat pump, which will require an electrical upgrade. I'll ensure that there will be capacity for EV charging, as well.

 

[Mikado463]

Eventually. Right now, we have an oil-fired forced hot air furnace for heating. When the furnace requires replacement within the next few years, we will go with a heat pump, which will require an electrical upgrade. I'll ensure that there will be capacity for EV charging, as well.

curious, are fuses still easy to come by in your neck of the woods ?

I'm pretty sure most houses here in the states were breakers once the standard transitioned from 60 to 100 amp service.

 

[GO-NAD!]

curious, are fuses still easy to come by in your neck of the woods ?

I'm pretty sure most houses here in the states were breakers once the standard transitioned from 60 to 100 amp service.

I haven't had any trouble getting them, although I haven't had to for quite a while. It's very rare for us to blow one. You can even get mini breakers that screw in like fuses.