Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
In the past month or two, I've started to think about getting an electric vehicle (EV). I now own a 2000 Volvo S70, with 140,000 miles. It's aging, but I've kept it in a garage, and the engine and transmission are in excellent condition. It has manual transmission, gets ~26 mpg in local stop & go driving, and ~32 mpg on the highway. That gives it as much as 500+ miles driving range on a tank of gas, if 5th gear is used.

I much prefer manual transmission over automatic. All but one car I've owned has had manual transmission. I really like my Volvo in general; it's front seats are excellent, by far the best I've ever owned. This S70 (4-door sedan) dates from before Ford Motors' purchased Volvo (their cost cutting efforts took a big toll on Volvo's performance and interior comfort). Ford gave up after a few years, selling Volvo to a Chinese holding company who claimed they wanted to manage the money, while they turned engineering back to the Volvo people.

Manual vs. automatic transmission seems to now be a problem. Fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmission. I've seen advertising claiming modern automatic transmissions actually get better mileage than manuals. I doubt that. I also know from years of experience that manual transmission gives me much better speed control of a car, especially when driving in snow or ice. People who only drive automatics don't understand the large effect engine breaking has with standard transmission. Finally, I find driving an automatic is simply boring. A car with manual transmission keeps me much more involved in driving – something I like.

My initial thought about EVs came about because of the transmission thing. Instead of a car with an internal combustion engine, or hybrid, with an automatic transmission, I wondered if an EV might be more acceptable. I figured, why not go all in instead of half-way in? I have not test driven an EV, so, that's a big unanswered question.

The same thinking goes for the lack of a conventional dashboard. The most recent Tesla models seem to have all their instrument panel on a large video screen, off to the driver's right. It will take loosing some old habits and learning new ones to get used to that. Why not jump in all the way, instead of going half-way in?

And, as I get older, seating comfort, and especially ease of getting in & out of a car, become more important. Too many modern cars can be a problem for me, where my Volvo is quite easy to get in & out.

The other VERY BIG issue for any EV, is driving range. I've looked into Tesla Model Y and Model 3. So far, the Model Y looks good, on paper. The dual motor, AWD version of the Model Y is said to have a range of 326 miles. However, the high price, about $60,000, is a potential show-stopper. The smaller Model 3 (also with dual motors) can go as far as 353 miles, and costs ~$50,000. Still very high. I'll have to try both the 3 and the Y before I know which size works best for me. If I go for an EV, I will get a 240 Volt recharger for my garage. So, I have to add that cost to that of the car.

What other EVs are worth looking into? What about plug-in hybrids?

What things decrease EV range?
  • EV energy consumption is highly dependent on speed. For example, the very expensive Tesla Model S requires 10 kW (14 hp) at 70 mph (110 km/h), and 31 kW (42 hp) at 100 mph (160 km/h).

  • Climate control, battery conditioning, etc. may consume 15-25%, depending on outside temperature. EVs can lose ≥40% of their range in cold weather, at ≤20°F (-7°C) when heating the interior cabin. Some EVs use heat pumps (such as the Tesla Model Y and Model 3). That should be more energy efficient in cold weather than other EVs with resistance heaters. What about air conditioning in hot weather? Will a heat pump result in less energy consumption than standard air conditioning compressors? What about power windows, adjustable seats, or heated seats?

  • Tires – EVs are heavy compared to similar sized internal combustion vehicles (ICV). The added weight is due to the batteries. Tires must be larger for that. Low rolling resistance is critical for EVs. In addition, electric motors have more low RPM torque than IC engines. More stress on tires. Finally, because EVs are so quiet compared to ICVs, tire road noise becomes more noticeable. As a result, tires are larger, have low rolling resistance, must run quieter, and are probably more expensive. Will they require more frequent replacement too?
What else should I know about EVs? I have not yet driven any EV, so my opinion about them is not yet formed.
 
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cpp

cpp

Audioholic Samurai
Well the only thing for me that's stopping me from buying a EV again ( Tesla) is the lack of decent charging stations that actually work and the hopes that Telsa has got their motors and batteries issues ironed out. Our ModelS was in the shop more than we drove it. Sold it and the wife got another Lexus. We travel up to NC I-95 to I=26 and up towards western VA. We can get all teh way up into SC, but we get really low on battery reserves and have to find somewhere to charge and there are few Telsa charge stations between I-95/I26 and I-77. ANd finding a place that is compatable and works with the Tesla mobile connector bundle, well its takes a WHILE . Maybe as a secondary vehicle, but never again as my prime and only driver.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Well the only thing for me that's stopping me from buying a EV again ( Tesla) is the lack of decent charging stations that actually work and the hopes that Telsa has got their motors and batteries issues ironed out. Our ModelS was in the shop more than we drove it. Sold it and the wife got another Lexus. We travel up to NC I-95 to I=26 and up towards western VA. We can get all teh way up into SC, but we get really low on battery reserves and have to find somewhere to charge and there are few Telsa charge stations between I-95/I26 and I-77. ANd finding a place that is compatable and works with the Tesla mobile connector bundle, well its takes a WHILE . Maybe as a secondary vehicle, but never again as my prime and only driver.
When did you get that Model S?

Driving range in the real world, including recharging stops on the road, is the big question.
 
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H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
I've been looking at the Ford Mach-E lately. I'm intrigued and I've had it with gas vehicles and oil in general. Environmental yes but more the oil market and companies.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Overlord
@Swerd few more considerations limiting EV car range: a) outside temperature - colder weather is known to reduce mileage on most EV cars and b) towing - this is a big one. See a recent Top Gear UK on EV cars /w caravans. (spoiler - it's drastic difference in range)

I keep eye on EV car development and while Tesla was able to achieve impressive ranges, it's since been beaten to a pulp by Lucid, which does also apply for notoriously crappy Tesla build quality/materials. Lucid was able to bring significant improvements in EV efficiency, not merely sporting a bigger/heavier battery. I hope that some of these innovations will also find the way to more budget-friendly cars, as it stands now Lucid BASE model starts from $70k and they aren't even building these at the moment due to limited production capacity for now.

VW ID series of EV cars is the closest you generally get to a "normal" car for a normal person. ID4 is generally promising, but upcoming ID.6 has a real chance to be my next family SUV (if priced right)
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
MaxInValrico

MaxInValrico

Full Audioholic
In the past month or two, I've started to think about getting an electric vehicle (EV). I now own a 2000 Volvo S70, with 140,000 miles. It's aging, but I've kept it in a garage, and the engine and transmission are in excellent condition. It has manual transmission, gets ~26 mpg in local stop & go driving, and ~32 mpg on the highway. That gives it as much as 500+ miles driving range on a tank of gas, if 5th gear is used.

I much prefer manual transmission over automatic. All but one car I've owned has had manual transmission. I really like my Volvo in general; it's front seats are excellent, by far the best I've ever owned. This S70 (4-door sedan) dates from before Ford Motors' purchased Volvo (their cost cutting efforts took a big toll on Volvo's performance and interior comfort). Ford gave up after a few years, selling Volvo to a Chinese holding company who claimed they wanted to manage the money, while they turned engineering back to the Volvo people.

Manual vs. automatic transmission seems to now be a problem. Fewer and fewer cars come with manual transmission. I've seen advertising claiming modern automatic transmissions actually get better mileage than manuals. I doubt that. I also know from years of experience that manual transmission gives me much better speed control of a car, especially when driving in snow or ice. People who only drive automatics don't understand the large effect engine breaking has with standard transmission. Finally, I find driving an automatic is simply boring. A car with manual transmission keeps me much more involved in driving – something I like.

My initial thought about EVs came about because of the transmission thing. Instead of a car with an internal combustion engine, or hybrid, with an automatic transmission, I wondered if an EV might be more acceptable. I figured, why not go all in instead of half-way in? I have not test driven an EV, so, that's a big unanswered question.

The same thinking goes for the lack of a conventional dashboard. The most recent Tesla models seem to have all their instrument panel on a large video screen, off to the driver's right. It will take loosing some old habits and learning new ones to get used to that. Why not jump in all the way, instead of going half-way in?

And, as I get older, seating comfort, and especially ease of getting in & out of a car, become more important. Too many modern cars can be a problem for me, where my Volvo is quite easy to get in & out.

The other VERY BIG issue for any EV, is driving range. I've looked into Tesla Model Y and Model 3. So far, the Model Y looks good, on paper. The dual motor, AWD version of the Model Y is said to have a range of 326 miles. However, the high price, about $60,000, is a potential show-stopper. The smaller Model 3 (also with dual motors) can go as far as 353 miles, and costs ~$50,000. Still very high. I'll have to try both the 3 and the Y before I know which size works best for me. If I go for an EV, I will get a 240 Volt recharger for my garage. So, I have to add that cost to that of the car.

What other EVs are worth looking into? What about plug-in hybrids?

What things decrease EV range?
  • EV energy consumption is highly dependent on speed. For example, the very expensive Tesla Model S requires 10 kW (14 hp) at 70 mph (110 km/h), and 31 kW (42 hp) at 100 mph (160 km/h).

  • Climate control, battery conditioning, etc. may consume 15-25%, depending on outside temperature. EVs can lose ≥40% of their range in cold weather, at ≤20°F (-7°C) when heating the interior cabin. Some EVs use heat pumps (such as the Tesla Model Y and Model 3). That should be more energy efficient in cold weather than other EVs with resistance heaters. What about air conditioning in hot weather? Will a heat pump result in less energy consumption than standard air conditioning compressors? What about power windows, adjustable seats, or heated seats?

  • Tires – EVs are heavy compared to similar sized internal combustion vehicles (ICV). The added weight is due to the batteries. Tires must be larger for that. In addition, electric motors have more low RPM torque than IC engines. More stress on tires. Finally, because EVs are so quiet compared to ICVs, tire road noise becomes more noticeable. As a result, tires are larger, must run quieter, and are probably more expensive. Will they require more frequent replacement too?
What else should I know about EVs? I have not yet driven any EV, so my opinion about them is not yet formed.
Check it out: https://jalopnik.com/this-tesla-model-x-has-driven-over-400-000-miles-here-1841761190
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
@Swerd few more considerations limiting EV car range: a) outside temperature - colder weather is known to reduce mileage on most EV cars and b) towing - this is a big one. See a recent Top Gear UK on EV cars /w caravans. (spoiler - it's drastic difference in range)
Yes, cold weather has a large negative effect on any battery. I thought I mentioned that in my first post, but it looks like I focused on the battery draw from heating a car's interior.

I don't tow anything with my car, and don't plan to in the future.
I keep eye on EV car development and while Tesla was able to achieve impressive ranges, it's since been beaten to a pulp by Lucid, which does also apply for notoriously crappy Tesla build quality/materials. Lucid was able to bring significant improvements in EV efficiency, not merely sporting a bigger/heavier battery. I hope that some of these innovations will also find the way to more budget-friendly cars, as it stands now Lucid BASE model starts from $70k and they aren't even building these at the moment due to limited production capacity for now.
I've never heard of Lucid, but I'll look into now. Thanks for that tip.
VW ID series of cars is the closest you generally get to a "normal" car for a normal person. ID4 is generally promising, but upcoming ID.6 is a real chance to be my next family SUV (if priced right)
VW has been on my sh!t list ever since they cheated on EPA emissions testing with their USA diesel engines. In my opinion, they still have a lot of explaining and apologizing to do.
 
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Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
I haven't ruled Toyota out. In the past, they were slow at producing a front wheel drive car, but when they did, they got it right.
Toyota is not a 'band wagon jumper', as the article points out
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
If I were to go electric, I would want to go all in (within reason of course - there is the $2.5 million Rimac Nevera...)
Porsche Taycan Turbo S Cross Turismo.JPG
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Samurai
I believe Toyota just announced a slew of electrical vehicles including a Tacoma EV. It's going in this direction and it's kinda going fast now. As much Elon Musk annoys me at times we really have him to thank for this. Tesla has pushed it to this point.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
since 'carbon' is the main objection, here's another possibility down the road ......

 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Ninja
If I were to go electric, I would want to go all in (within reason of course - there is the $2.5 million Rimac Nevera...)
View attachment 52677
That car cracks me up....'Turismo' equates to grand touring, yet that green turd has one of if not the shortest ranges per charge of any EV ! Overpriced Volkswagen .....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Yes, cold weather has a large negative effect on any battery. I thought I mentioned that in my first post, but it looks like I focused on the battery draw from heating a car's interior.

I don't tow anything with my car, and don't plan to in the future.
I'll look into Lucid.
VW has been on my sh!t list ever since they cheated on EPA combustion testing with their USA diesel engines. In my opinion, they still have a lot of explaining and apologizing to do.
So, the financial burden doesn't make a difference to you?

They really were fuel-efficient, though- I know someone who had a Jetta and even when he drove like Parnelli Jones, the calculator showed that he was getting over 50MPG. He made it into the '800 Club', which was Jetta drivers who went over 800 miles on one tank of fuel.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
since 'carbon' is the main objection, here's another possibility down the road ......

Maybe they could install a water tank and use electrolysis to release Hydrogen, to be recovered by a small vacuum system so it can be used for combustion. Might get another foot out of a fuel fill. :)
 
John Parks

John Parks

Audioholic Field Marshall
That car cracks me up....'Turismo' equates to grand touring, yet that green turd has one of if not the shortest ranges per charge of any EV ! Overpriced Volkswagen .....
Yeah, but with 750 hp on tap, it's a fun 200 miles!

*"Overpriced Volkswagen..." As are Audis, Bentlys, Bugattis and Lamborghinis (amongst others) if you want to go down that road. Since Porsche SE is the majority owner of the Volkswagen Group, VWs are, in actuality, underpriced Porsches!
 
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