Home audio, Whats better than naim muso 2 i want to upgrade it? i want reference sound

[elf4o]

Amps with enough power to drive a given speaker adequately will not change the sound of a speaker, that is BS from the ignorant. So an amp of sufficient power to drive the load is what is required. I tend choose amps for their likelihood of a long trouble free life. That is what really separates the men from the boys.

So what amp model you can advice class ab or high end for r3 speakers

 

[TLS Guy]

So what amp model you can advice class ab or high end for r3 speakers

I am not sure what you needs are. There are so many options these days. Do you ever want to have a picture? It is usually a mistake these days to not go the AV route, but there are some that never watch TV. Do you want an integrated amp, or separates? Do you want your preamp or integrated to also be your streamer and contain a DAC? Do you want all these separate? Do you want bass management? With small speakers a sub and bass management are strongly recommended.

I have no idea what it is you want actually, other than I think you are searching for good quality sound, but I need to know the "what else."

 

[elf4o]

I am not sure what you needs are. There are so many options these days. Do you ever want to have a picture? It is usually a mistake these days to not go the AV route, but there are some that never watch TV. Do you want an integrated amp, or separates? Do you want your preamp or integrated to also be your streamer and contain a DAC? Do you want all these separate? Do you want bass management? With small speakers a sub and bass management are strongly recommended.

I have no idea what it is you want actually, other than I think you are searching for good quality sound, but I need to know the "what else."

I have 4k. Oled screen for my home computer and i also have 5.1 home cinema .

for r3 speakers i need amp to power them only i dont care about video i will listen mp3 music sometimes flac. I dont own and want Tv my super computer is fine for movies cconnected either to speakers or home cinema 5.1 .


Whats the difference between integraded or separated amp i want powerfull amp to power the speakers, I will preffer High end amp if possible only class A if not class ab. I dont have headphones i dont need dac or other gimmicks bass manegemt will bbe good since speakers have bass they are three way speakers i dont care about streamer as well. For me most important is the class of the amp it should be class a or maximum class ab, i dont want class d junk i already own class d in my naim

 

[lovinthehd]

So what amp model you can advice class ab or high end for r3 speakers

High end of performance is the purifi or hypex module amps. You can get them from a variety of amp brands....in europe try Nord, Apollon, Boxem off the top of my head. Many amps can work well for your speakers. The sound is in the speakers, not the amp.

 

[elf4o]

High end of performance is the purifi or hypex module amps. You can get them from a variety of amp brands....in europe try Nord, Apollon, Boxem off the top of my head. Many amps can work well for your speakers. The sound is in the speakers, not the amp.

i cant build my own amp with these purifi and hyper modules ,and they are also class d , i need class a accuphase or class ab like hegel.

 

[lovinthehd]

i cant build my own amp with these purifi and hyper modules ,and they are also class d , i need class a accuphase or class ab like hegel.

The brands I mention sell complete amps, they buy and incorporate the modules for you into a box with appropriate power supply and connections. Why the hangup about class of amp? The purifi and hypex modules are the top of the amp heap performance wise. Hegel isn't as good as you think perhaps https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hegel-h95-review-streaming-amplifier.28435/

In any case put more money into the speakers than the amplification....

 

[elf4o]

The brands I mention sell complete amps, they buy and incorporate the modules for you into a box with appropriate power supply and connections. Why the hangup about class of amp? The purifi and hypex modules are the top of the amp heap performance wise. Hegel isn't as good as you think perhaps https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/hegel-h95-review-streaming-amplifier.28435/

In any case put more money into the speakers than the amplification....

i am aware that brands sale complete amps,
but they are quality specially accuphase they are made in japan 100% and class a Amp, i already have class d amp in naim muso 2.
why i should go same route.
what brands produce best class a or class ab amps ??
please advice i am not amp expert.

 

[TLS Guy]

i cant build my own amp with these purifi and hyper modules ,and they are also class d , i need class a accuphase or class ab like hegel.

I did not expect you to build your own amp. I would avoid class A. Class A bias means that the current through the output transistors in constant, and therefore generates a lot of heat, whether there is no signal or max output. That tends to poor long term reliability and a huge waste of energy.

Class AB runs in that bias state only under low signal conditions and then transitions to class B. Over time these designs have improved.

Class D are switching amps, they are the most energy efficient of all. There are now good ones that are very reliable. I have pointed to car audio. Class D amps have been used here for years now, and despite adverse conditions they are ultra reliable.

I do use unusual amps, that were developed by Peter Walker of Quad in the 1970s. The original Quad 405 and then the 405-2 actually had the output stage biased to class C! However they had a small class A amp that fed a feed forward error signal to the output transistors, that Peter called the dumpers. He demonstrated that the performance was dictated by the class A amp. Later the Quad 606 and 909s appeared. The output devices are biased class AB in these later amps, but heavily biased to B. They are also efficient and generate little heat. I use a mix of 10 Quad 909 amps and three Quad 405-2 in my three systems. They all use this patented feed forward signal from a small class A amp.

Quad still make a powerful current dumper, the Artera, but under their new Chinese masters it is very expensive.

If I was starting out now, I am sure I would go class D. I really do think that has the edge over class AB in many ways now. You should not shy away from class D if it fits your requirements in other respects.

Integrated amps are when the control voltage amps and the power amps are in the same box. They tend to be overpriced as a group, and tend to be under powered and lack facilities. Separates have these functions in separate cases, and tend to offer more facilities.

Now we know you don't want video, then we need to know what else you need. Your Naim was not junk because of class D, but because of the speakers.

In your situation though, an integrated amp might very well fit your needs. So do a Google search and come up with ideas. I would make sure you restrict the search to amps with at least 80 watts per channel 8 ohm. When you have a short list, please report back.

 

[lovinthehd]

i am aware that brands sale complete amps,
but they are quality specially accuphase they are made in japan 100% and class a Amp, i already have class d amp in naim muso 2.
why i should go same route.
what brands produce best class a or class ab amps ??
please advice i am not amp expert.

As was mentioned, the amps aren't particularly the problem, it's the speakers. Personally I would never buy anything Naim as it's simply overpriced for what it is. I wouldn't consider a class A amp mostly due to heat/energy consumption issues nor do I follow them, they also tend to be too expensive for what they offer. AB amps are made by many. I use several different class amps myself, no issues in and of themselves. Sound quality is from the speakers themselves, not particularly the amps (unless the speakers have particular demands and the amp cannot provide the capability perhaps). I think you've been reading too many posts from "audiophiles".

 

[elf4o]

I did not expect you to build your own amp. I would avoid class A. Class A bias means that the current through the output transistors in constant, and therefore generates a lot of heat, whether there is no signal or max output. That tends to poor long term reliability and a huge waste of energy.

Class AB runs in that bias state only under low signal conditions and then transitions to class B. Over time these designs have improved.

Class D are switching amps, they are the most energy efficient of all. There are now good ones that are very reliable. I have pointed to car audio. Class D amps have been used here for years now, and despite adverse conditions they are ultra reliable.

I do use unusual amps, that were developed by Peter Walker of Quad in the 1970s. The original Quad 405 and then the 405-2 actually had the output stage biased to class C! However they had a small class A amp that fed a feed forward error signal to the output transistors, that Peter called the dumpers. He demonstrated that the performance was dictated by the class A amp. Later the Quad 606 and 909s appeared. The output devices are biased class AB in these later amps, but heavily biased to B. They are also efficient and generate little heat. I use a mix of 10 Quad 909 amps and three Quad 405-2 in my three systems. They all use this patented feed forward signal from a small class A amp.

Quad still make a powerful current dumper, the Artera, but under their new Chinese masters it is very expensive.

If I was starting out now, I am sure I would go class D. I really do think that has the edge over class AB in many ways now. You should not shy away from class D if it fits your requirements in other respects.

Integrated amps are when the control voltage amps and the power amps are in the same box. They tend to be overpriced as a group, and tend to be under powered and lack facilities. Separates have these functions in separate cases, and tend to offer more facilities.

Now we know you don't want video, then we need to know what else you need. Your Naim was not junk because of class D, but because of the speakers.

In your situation though, an integrated amp might very well fit your needs. So do a Google search and come up with ideas. I would make sure you restrict the search to amps with at least 80 watts per channel 8 ohm. When you have a short list, please report back.

I owned in my car class D amps,
and i upgraded them to class ab and i am much happier i dont want to return to class d again.
Naim uses Class D and in low volume is fine, when i turn volume up its start distoring i dont want and i will never buy class d again, thats my own preference.
Amp is long term investment and i dont care about heat i have air conditioner for summer and winter.
If not pure class a , i will preffer class ab there is a small compromise but still sound good.Again all its up to brand specs build quality invested material r nd etcs... and many other factors.
Also what do you think of class h AMPS like ARcam are they bad?

so i am looking for amp which can go to at least 180w
Amplifier Power
15-180W
Nominal Impedance
8Ohms (min.3.2Ohms)
according to R3 specs.

i have not yet short list,
Do you think i should wait to find deal on reference 1 speakers - used or get used R3?

 

[TLS Guy]

I owned in my car class D amps,
and i upgraded them to class ab and i am much happier i dont want to return to class d again.
Naim uses Class D and in low volume is fine, when i turn volume up its start distoring i dont want and i will never buy class d again, thats my own preference.
Amp is long term investment and i dont care about heat i have air conditioner for summer and winter.
If not pure class a , i will preffer class ab there is a small compromise but still sound good.Again all its up to brand specs build quality invested material r nd etcs... and many other factors.
Also what do you think of class h AMPS like ARcam are they bad?

so i am looking for amp which can go to at least 180w
Amplifier Power
15-180W
Nominal Impedance
8Ohms (min.3.2Ohms)
according to R3 specs.

i have not yet short list,
Do you think i should wait to find deal on reference 1 speakers - used or get used R3?

If you really must have class A performance, then you will have to pay the piper and buy a Quad Artera. This is a current dumper, that basically is the same as the 909, but has balanced inputs. It will give you 140 watts 8 ohm and 250 watts four ohm. They are unconditionally stable. If you buy an amp with output transistors biased to class A it will have a short life, related to power transistor burn out. Quad is the only amp that gives class A performance without running a high current through the output transistors.

Choose a Quad pre amp with the features you desire. Quad gear has "battleship" build quality and are unconditionally stable under all loads.

 

[elf4o]

Can my speakers sound with Quad Artera or i need to buy another thing as well ?
is Quad Artera amp or pre amp or can i have 1 unit to have both functionalities do i need both functionalities.

 

[TLS Guy]

Can my speakers sound with Quad Artera or i need to buy another thing as well ?
is Quad Artera amp or pre amp or can i have 1 unit to have both functionalities do i need both functionalities.

You need a power amp and a preamp. If you go the high power route, you will have to have separates the only high power integrated amps are all class D and there are very few and expensive. You need to pick a Quad preamp from their offerings. I have Quad equipment going back more then half a century still working. People pay very high prices for vintage Quad equipment now.

I knew Peter Walker, well and visited the factory in Huntingdon many times and we would go for a pub lunch at the Angel pub and down a pint of bitter with lunch.
He was in harness to over 90 years old. Sadly, since his death the company now has Chinese masters. But I have fond memories of the Peter Walker years at Quad, and was his Canadian agent for a few years until I moved to the US.

 

[elf4o]

You need a power amp and a preamp. If you go the high power route, you will have to have separates the only high power integrated amps are all class D and there are very few and expensive. You need to pick a Quad preamp from their offerings. I have Quad equipment going back more then half a century still working. People pay very high prices for vintage Quad equipment now.

I knew Peter Walker, well and visited the factory in Huntingdon many times and we would go for a pub lunch at the Angel pub and down a pint of bitter with lunch.
He was in harness to over 90 years old. Sadly, since his death the company now has Chinese masters. But I have fond memories of the Peter Walker years at Quad, and was his Canadian agent for a few years until I moved to the US.

Is there all in one solution from Quad ?
may be something older not sure about their models..
or they doesnt offer such solution based on class a or class ab

 

[TLS Guy]

Is there all in one solution from Quad ?
may be something older not sure about their models..
or they doesnt offer such solution based on class a or class ab

Not at that power. If you want that sort of power you are into class D for a decent integrated. I have sent you a PM and recommended the Yamaha if you want an integrated.

Honestly though, if you did put 180 watts into those small KEF R3 you would quickly have an ash heap. That Yamaha has plenty of power for those speakers.

 

[highfigh]

Class D amps measure as well or better than class AB amps. In the high power class I think it is now fair to say they are superior. I know nothing about Wilkinsons.

Active speakers with DSP are now coming of age, and will overtake passive speakers probably sooner than people realize.

The OP wrote "powers and wilkinson'- do you not see that as a mis-typed 'Bowers & Wilkins'?

Just another reason for people to stop using the full name and go back to 'B&W'.

 

[elf4o]

The OP wrote "powers and wilkinson'- do you not see that as a mis-typed 'Bowers & Wilkins'?

Just another reason for people to stop using the full name and go back to 'B&W'.

'B&W' can you advice on good speakers from them.
Models vintage or non vintage same or simular or better than kef r3 or simular to kef reference 1

 

[highfigh]

'B&W' can you advice on good speakers from them.
Models vintage or non vintage same or simular or better than kef r3 or simular to kef reference 1

I can't because I'm not a fan and I don't know what's available in your location, but I can recommend Dynaudio.

 

[Sigberg Audio]

Mr. Boat has given you the correct information. Most active speakers use either Hypex or Purifi modules. We are not suggesting you DIY unless you want to. The point is that you should not be adverse to class D. It just seems to me that your situation is ripe for an active speaker solution. It is the active solution where the potential of greatly improved performance comes from in addition to reducing clutter.

I'm not sure that's accurate. Most active speakers use class D, but to my knowledge relatively few use Hypex, and Purifi is so new that I think very few if any active speakers use those modules (I don't know about any).

 

[elf4o]

I'm not sure that's accurate. Most active speakers use class D, but to my knowledge relatively few use Hypex, and Purifi is so new that I think very few if any active speakers use those modules (I don't know about any).

the reason they use class d and crappy class d is,
they are cheap,
they doesnt care about quality, they try to save as much money as possible.... class d is energy efficient, and small size and cheap.
When they use even cheaper class d its even cheaper for them. Compared to using some branded class d ..amp.