How much better do better speakers actually sound? Where's the breaking point of value/performance?

[Bucknekked]

I've not found HDTracks to have any multi-ch when I've looked in the past. You looking for download or a disc?

agree. I have only tried a few titles but saw no multi channel

 

[Pogre]

On this hobby...as much as I enjoy talking audio etc, my passion is really the music. Once I got the system completed, I haven't really seriously thought much about upgrading or adding to it. Now I'm re-thinking the digital storage and streaming parts of it...if I do anything in the next 12 mos that will be it.

I'm right there with you. I did have an end goal in mind when I decided to get serious. Now it's all about enjoying it.

So there's hope! You CAN recover from upgrade-itis! My wife didn't think I was ever gonna stop. She's happy with it now tho. In fact I'm pretty sure she'd be sad to see it go.

 

[Bucknekked]

I'm right there with you. I did have an end goal in mind when I decided to get serious. Now it's all about enjoying it.

So there's hope! You CAN recover from upgrade-itis! My wife didn't think I was ever gonna stop. She's happy with it now tho. In fact I'm pretty sure she'd be sad to see it go.

Yes, you can scratch the upgrade itch and make it stop. What it requires though, for most of us, is to not merely upgrade to a slightly better piece of gear, but to hit a truly "end game" piece of gear. Once you nail it down, for that room or system, you can make the itch go away for "a while". Your system qualifies ! You have a killer system.

Having a life is also a wonderful way to get out of the upgrade cycle. Going outside and doing something is a great way to help break the cycle.

 

[Pogre]

Yes, you can scratch the upgrade itch and make it stop. What it requires though, for most of us, is to not merely upgrade to a slightly better piece of gear, but to hit a truly "end game" piece of gear. Once you nail it down, for that room or system, you can make the itch go away for "a while". Your system qualifies ! You have a killer system.

Having a life is also a wonderful way to get out of the upgrade cycle. Going outside and doing something is a great way to help break the cycle.

Yes, well put!

After researching a little I got out and did some listening. I ended up setting my sights a little higher than I intended to (you too, if I remember correctly) , but wanted more than something incremental. I believe I saved myself from 1 or 2 more upgrade cycles with researching, listening, seeking good advice (like from the guys here!) and patience. It took me over a year, but I'm really happy with it.

 

[2channel lover]

If you have everything set to never, and save the power profile, and after a reboot it's still set that way, you should be set. But if you have some other software that dabbles in this it could be resetting your power profile.

Under Power Options, did you go through the "Change advanced power settings" and set things manually?

View attachment 29997
Very best,

Thanks again...I have not gone to that detail...I've figured out how to use it as a source and play a long playlist w/o sleeping, but not as a host. This latest direction would probably solve that, but this laptop has some other issues that make me uncomfortable trusting it with my music, so I have gotten everything over to the external drive with a few exceptions. Laptop as a source/dac, whole house its okay, but not preferred in the loft with the Salks.

These other front interface options I'm looking at are becoming more attractive to me as well. The laptop coupled with my Hifiman cans, with a denon/dac-headphone amp, it's a nice little new music mining vehicle, throw in some web surfing and an occassional XL SS, that's the function I'm most comfortable with.

 

[2channel lover]

Yes, you can scratch the upgrade itch and make it stop. What it requires though, for most of us, is to not merely upgrade to a slightly better piece of gear, but to hit a truly "end game" piece of gear. Once you nail it down, for that room or system, you can make the itch go away for "a while". Your system qualifies ! You have a killer system.

Having a life is also a wonderful way to get out of the upgrade cycle. Going outside and doing something is a great way to help break the cycle.

Very well said and spot on with the end game comment...one of my golf buddies is also a music lover and he has a nice Klipsch speaker based system that he brags about. Wanting confirmation, he asked me what I thought. Searching for the right words, I said I don't know if this is end game for me, but it's good. A couple of weeks ago we had him over and he got a chance to hear my system for the 1st time...now he understands what I meant by end game. Sadly, he's focusing on the wrong things (he's already gone out and bought a Marantz AVR) but I won't digress any further.

I will piggyback on your post with this comment.

Having another vice helps....lol, I'm a weekend hack golfer playing 50+ rounds a yr so that qualifies as my other vice....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Sadly, he's focusing on the wrong things (he's already gone out and bought a Marantz AVR) but I won't digress any further.

Well, now, we insist.

Why is that wrong?

Personally I would choose differently, but everyone has a different preference.

 

[2channel lover]

Well, now, we insist.

Why is that wrong?

Personally I would choose differently, but everyone has a different preference.

Well...he had a Denon AVR (don't recall the model) that imo was fine...the weakest part of his system was the sub. That's really the only part he really needed to upgrade imo. I probably wouldn't have bought the Klipsch floor standers (as you say personal preference) but they are not the weak link.

 

[panteragstk]

Hey HD! Glad to see you're still roaming these here parts!

I might as well let y'all know that my home inspection venture flopped. My partner... well, he didn't get me for too much. I started noticing a lot of inconsistencies and unearthed some flat out lies pretty early in and gtfo. Come to find out he's a raging alcoholic who was very adept at hiding it. If he's still operating, and I'd be shocked if he was, I don't want my name attached to it in any way.

I've just been doing some stuff on the side and getting by alright. We've been in the same house for over 20 years, kid's out on his own now and we don't have a lot of debt, so there's not a lot urgency to get back into my old line of work.

So, we've just been taking things day to day and have been pretty happy. I'm pretty set with the system I have now, so my expensive hobby has been a lot cheaper in the last year or so (my wife thought I was never gonna stop, lol). I'm gonna have some more free time again now tho, so I'll probably be poking my head in here more often.

I haven't booted up REW in a while. I might find an excuse to blow the dust off the ol' mic again too...

Damn dude, that blows.

Any thoughts on doing it on your own?

 

[Pogre]

Damn dude, that blows.

Any thoughts on doing it on your own?

Maybe down the road. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

All is well tho! I consider it more positive than negative. It was a learning experience and I didn't get in too deep. Things always have a way of working out.

 

[KEW]

Maybe down the road. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

All is well tho! I consider it more positive than negative. It was a learning experience and I didn't get in too deep. Things always have a way of working out.

That's the attitude to a happy life!
As a friend of mine says, pain is part of life, suffering (or as I like to say "wallowing in it") is optional!

 

[aarons915]

I don't know where the actual line is for price vs performance but I feel my experience in speakers can maybe help some out. Let me start out by saying that I've enjoyed every speaker on this list and the best advice I can give is to enjoy the speakers you own,

I started with some old Polk Rti100 powered towers, which were actually pretty good, I "upgraded" to the Polk Monitor 60s which were most likely a downgrade but I didn't know it at the time and didn't have the measurement software and expertise to dial in the powered sub.

After that I tried the ARX A1b, now Chane, bookshelf speakers. Very surprising to me, they sounded very neutral and clear compared to my Monitor 60s, they didn't match the bass output but it didn't matter since I didn't listen that loud and now had a subwoofer to handle the bass.

I tried a few speakers in the next few years including the Def Tech SM45 and SVS prime bookshelf, neither made me want to change even though the SM45 were very good.

The Wharfedale Diamond 220 is what finally made me upgrade from the Chane A1 after a few years, they were actually very close in sound quality but the Diamonds were slightly better and looked better in my opinion.

After this I wanted to try something with a RAAL tweeter and since I had dual subs that I could equalize flat with any speaker, I went with the Min Philharmonitor. I wanted to compare the RAAL to a dome tweeter so I also built the Zaph ZA 5.2, which is the same woofer and a Vifa dome tweeter. The RAAL was everything people said but to my surprise, I actually preferred the ZA 5.2 and its wider dispersion.

That didn't last long though and I borrowed a pair of LS50's from my dealer and they blew my mind. The highs were mildly fatiguing so I ended up buying a pair of Q150's and using them for about 3 months but I kept thinking I was missing something compared to the LS50's. I grabbed another pair of LS50 to compare and head to head they easily beat the Q150, mostly due to the highs above 1khz.

I've tried the Polk LsiM 703, Philharmonic BMR and Revel M105 since then, the Polks and BMR are both great speakers that don't really need subwoofers to sound great but the M105 was the closest speaker to the LS50 in my opinion. It's actually the speaker that made me have to perform a blind, level-matched, mono test (Harman style) to pick a winner but I still chose the LS50. The M105 is my 2nd best bookshelf speaker under 2k though.

I've listened to quite a few speakers and have had the LS50 for over a year now but to your original question, I don't know if I have an exact dollar amount of when diminishing returns sets in but I would say in 2019 if you can find the KEF Q150 for $299 you're not really going to beat it until you can find the Polk Lsim 703 for 1/2 price, and that's only if you're not using a sub. For 2 Channel use, the 703's are tough to beat and the build quality is excellent. If you go above the $1k range and have a sub(or preferably 2), I personally haven't found anything that beats the LS50 but I'm sure others may disagree.

 

[panteragstk]

Maybe down the road. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

All is well tho! I consider it more positive than negative. It was a learning experience and I didn't get in too deep. Things always have a way of working out.

Glad you're being positive. I still want to start something on my own. Some day.

Either way, glad to see you back.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Of course, it's 100% personal and subjective.

If I were putting a number to it, bookshelf speakers shouldn't need to be more than $1,200 (street price, not MSRP) and towers shouldn't have to be more than $5,000 (street price, not MSRP).

 

[Mikado463]

Of course, it's 100% personal and subjective.

agreed

If I were putting a number to it, bookshelf speakers shouldn't need to be more than $1,200 and towers shouldn't have to be more than $5,000.

unfortunately the real world speaks differently. While you can get a very nice pair of speakers for 5k there is no way they will compete sonically with those costing many times more. Am I saying every high dollar speaker is worth the $$, no, rather we all have our definition as to where the 'sweet spot' lies.

IMO 15k + or - a couple thousand is the mark.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

While you can get a very nice pair of speakers for 5k there is no way they will compete sonically with those costing many times more.

It depends on our personal experiences.

And when I say "$5K" I mean actual out-the-door $5K, not MSRP.

So in my experience, yes, a $5K pair of towers can sound BETTER to me in EVERY WAY SONICALLY than speakers that cost $30K.

But it goes back to what we agreed on - which is personal subjective opinions.

 

[Mikado463]

I'm curious, what do you consider to be your 'reference' 5k tower speakers ? I'll wager they can be bettered without spending anywhere near 30k. Don't know how we would have a shootout to prove the point if we could I'd take the bet any day !

 

[Bucknekked]

In a forum format, its so easy to get wrapped around the axle and end up sounding like a quarreling old married couple. I will bet if a number of you sat down in a living room or around a bar, this whole idea of where's the sweet spot would have a group all shaking their heads together in no time. I think most people here with more than 200 posts appreciate price performance and the law of diminishing returns. Its why you're hanging out on AH and not on AVS Forum or the "What's Best?" in audio forums. Those guys are nuts for spending money on stuff that just doesn't do much for most of the folks who are AH regulars.

Where's the sweet spot in spending for speakers? If you're in your 20's I would bet its different than when your earning power increases and you've listened to a bunch more speakers and you're in your 40's. The patience to look longer and take your time also increases with experience. (at least it might).

I like the AH point of view. Its danged practical.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm curious, what do you consider to be your 'reference' 5k tower speakers ? I'll wager they can be bettered without spending anywhere near 30k. Don't know how we would have a shootout to prove the point if we could I'd take the bet any day !

If you don't know what they are, then why would you wager that they could be bettered?

That the sound is sweeter or more chocolatey, the bass is faster, the soundstage is wider and deeper, and image is more pin-point or what?

And if you couldn't prove it, then what's the point of the bet?

Well, the point of this thread isn't about speaker shootouts.

Send me a PM if you want to know the name of the speaker I'm talking about.

 

[lovinthehd]

In a forum format, its so easy to get wrapped around the axle and end up sounding like a quarreling old married couple. I will bet if a number of you sat down in a living room or around a bar, this whole idea of where's the sweet spot would have a group all shaking their heads together in no time. I think most people here with more than 200 posts appreciate price performance and the law of diminishing returns. Its why you're hanging out on AH and not on AVS Forum or the "What's Best?" in audio forums. Those guys are nuts for spending money on stuff that just doesn't do much for most of the folks who are AH regulars.

Where's the sweet spot in spending for speakers? If you're in your 20's I would bet its different than when your earning power increases and you've listened to a bunch more speakers and you're in your 40's. The patience to look longer and take your time also increases with experience. (at least it might).

I like the AH point of view. Its danged practical.

Some insist vinyl sounds the best to them, some digital, some concentrate on the piece rather than the medium. So many good speakers out there, at many price points, for various purposes/tastes....