Ascend Acoustic Ribbon Towers

[Pogre]

Very interested to hear which Audyssey settings you end up liking, or if you even end up using Audyssey EQ. I’ve been changing settings for two months, and I’m still tweaking things. None of this is the fault of the Sierras, it’s the ‘fault’ of the new receiver I got at the same time and the associated Audyssey app....endless options now.

Just getting wrapped up for today. There's more work to do with Audyssey above 100 hz but I need to do some homework on ratbuddyssey and figure out how it works. The app by itself did help a little bit, but tight, precise adjustments aren't really possible trying to draw it by hand.

For now I have Audyssey on reference, DEQ on, RLO -10. Direct and bypass seem kinda dull. I'm preferring Audyssey's adjustments so far. This is just the start tho. My main focus today was getting my bass dialed in.

 

[Mpsafranski]

That’s impressive. I have a suck out at 80-90 I haven’t been able to fix, room issue. That’s frickin unreal what you’ve got between 15-100. Are those Hsu 15 inchers?

 

[KEW]

Just getting wrapped up for today. There's more work to do with Audyssey above 100 hz but I need to do some homework on ratbuddyssey and figure out how it works. The app by itself did help a little bit, but tight, precise adjustments aren't really possible trying to draw it by hand.

For now I have Audyssey on reference, DEQ on, RLO -10. Direct and bypass seem kinda dull. I'm preferring Audyssey's adjustments so far. This is just the start tho. My main focus today was getting my bass dialed in.

View attachment 36816View attachment 36817

Seriously, that is impressive. It looks like +1.5/-1dB from 15 to 95Hz.
What does it look like if you get rid of the smoothing? I was thinking at low frequencies smoothing hardly makes a difference!

 

[Pogre]

Seriously, that is impressive. It looks like +1.5/-1dB from 15 to 95Hz.
What does it look like if you get rid of the smoothing? I was thinking at low frequencies smoothing hardly makes a difference!

Yeah, you're right. There isn't a whole lot of difference below 100 hz with no smoothing, lol.

@Mpsafranski yeah, they're HSU VTF-3 MK5s and worth every penny I spent on them. That sweep is the deepest extension mode (1 port plugged, EQ1). That's how HSU recommends setting them when running room correction so I finish dialing them in with the Mini that way also. Then when I'm finished I pull the port plug and switch to EQ2. It's a little less extension but there's a little more mid bass output and headroom.

 

[KEW]

Are you still using the miniDSP in your rig? I'm guessing you must to achieve such perfection (without yet figuring out Ratbuddyssey)!
Peng seems fairly convinced that you can get as good using Ratbuddesey and XT32 app w/o miniDSP. Is that you endgame, here?

 

[Pogre]

It just so happens I saved a couple of EQ1 v EQ2 sweeps because just recently I was trying to explain the benefits of more output mode to a new HSU owner. The first chart is with DEQ off and the 2nd chart is DEQ on, RLO -0. Check it out.

I didn't label the sweeps, but it's pretty obvious which is which. You can see EQ2 rolls off earlier, but there's just a little bit more energy in the audible range. I don't even build a house curve. I just dial it in as flat as I can in deepest extension and let EQ2 and DEQ (usually RLO -10. RLO 0 is a bit much) do the house curve for me.

 

[Pogre]

Are you still using the miniDSP in your rig? I'm guessing you must to achieve such perfection!
Peng seems fairly convinced that you can get as good using Ratbuddesey and XT32 app w/o miniDSP. Is that you endgame, here?

Yes, and yes! You are in my head!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Listening I've determined so far that these are more forward than the Ultras for sure, which I do like. They don't slam with you bass the way the Ultras can, but they don't seem to have any trouble pressurizing the room. Nice n smooth. They sound great with or without the subs and that's something I've had issues with the Ultras since I got them. I really think even tho my room is pretty big there still wasn't quite enough room for the Ultras to really do their best.

Last night I did start feeling a little fatigue set in, but I had them cranked up pretty good a couple times too. I have more time today so I might bust out the gear and do some sweeps. Maybe get my subs all dialed in again. I removed all processing before I reran room correction last night.

Just need to break-in your ears and allow your brain to get acclimated.

 

[Pogre]

Just need to break-in your ears and allow your brain to get acclimated.

I think that's definitely part of it. Along with it was getting late and I'd had it for the day. I'm happy to report no fatigue today and I've been listening for a couple of hours now. Things are sounding very, very good right now!

 

[Beave]

Thanks Bill. Not quite what I thought then.

Here are the charts they sent with the speakers.
View attachment 36782

I'm seeing a tilt to the upper end. That would definitely explain their more forward nature.

The high frequency upward tilt is far too high in frequency (not to mention too small in amplitude) to impart a 'forward nature' to the speakers. The 'forward nature' is more likely to be seen in measurements of the upper midrange both on and off axis.

 

[TLS Guy]

The high frequency upward tilt is far too high in frequency (not to mention too small in amplitude) to impart a 'forward nature' to the speakers. The 'forward nature' is more likely to be seen in measurements of the upper midrange both on and off axis.

The problem is not the hump. If you look, that tweeter has a rising response above 6 KHz it is small but audible. This is similar to what a lot of mc cartridges do. The 'golden ears' call it 'air'. I think all Ribbons have that response. I personally don't like it. I note that when Dennis Murhpy uses that tweeter he shunts it with a small cap to prevent it. It is enough to give a forward sound.

 

[Beave]

I wasn't referring to the hump. If you can hear a 1-2dB gradual rise from 6kHz to 20kHz then you must be have excellent high frequency hearing for your age and/or you're in your teens or twenties.

The 'forward' sound of the towers is not in the highest octave. It's hard for a speaker to be 'forward' in an octave in which no fundamentals occur.

 

[Pogre]

I wasn't referring to the hump. If you can hear a 1-2dB gradual rise from 6kHz to 20kHz then you must be have excellent high frequency hearing for your age and/or you're in your teens or twenties.

The 'forward' sound of the towers is not in the highest octave. It's hard for a speaker to be 'forward' in an octave in which no fundamentals occur.

Maybe I should clear this up. By "more forward" I mean "not as laid back" as the Ultras. I hate to admit it, but they were a bit tame.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You know the ONLY way to truly know for sure if a speaker is more "forward" than another speaker is to do a DBT to remove all bias (like everyone looking at the FR graphs).

When people see those graphs, they will have bias and KNOW which is more "forward".

I have a feeling these Ascend towers sound great.

They just won't have the total dynamics of a tower with dual 12" subwoofers, three 8" midrange, and one 1"x5" tweeter.

But other than that, the Ascend should sound peachy great like all the other good speakers.

 

[Pogre]

You know the ONLY way to truly know for sure if a speaker is more "forward" than another speaker is to do a DBT to remove all bias (like everyone looking at the FR graphs).

When people see those graphs, they will have bias and KNOW which is more "forward".

I 100% agree with you. I'm not going to try and say there isn't some expectation bias going on here! As far as I'm concerned this could very well be a classic case of placebo induced subjective experience as well.

 

[KEW]

I actually need to measure my wife's hatchback and see if they'll fit. I'm super tempted to just go pick em up!

That is what I did when I bought my Phil3's (at least twice as far away)!
I'm retired, so time was not an issue! Of course, I also got to meet Dennis and Swerd and Alex, so it turned out to be a great trip (despite my having a horrible sinus infection)! However, IIRC (?), I had decided to pickup the speakers from Dennis before the speaker swap-a-thon came together!
But between the risk of damage to something that heavy by transit handlers and the money you don't have to pay for shipping them, I would if in your shoes (assuming you are not forfeiting a day or two's pay - think Jim would be willing to set up a weekend pickup with you!

 

[Pogre]

I seriously considered driving to pick mine up. I mapped it and it's not that godawful far for me. About 6 hours. I'm an early riser and could do it easy in a day.

 

[panteragstk]

Wow. You went from great speakers to even better. Congrats.

Now that you showed us a map of where you live I'll come by and grab those Ultras from you.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Wow. You went from great speakers to even better. Congrats.

Now that you showed us a map of where you live I'll come by and grab those Ultras from you.

Lmao!

 

[Pogre]

I'm still adjusting to the new look. The Ultras definitely make a bigger, flashier visual statement and I'd be lying if I said that's not part of their appeal for me (and my wife, believe it or not... she misses the visual impact of the Ultras too!). This is audio tho, and sq ranks above aesthetics in my book and my wife and I both like the sound of the Sierras, even if we're unable to put a finger exactly on it.

As far as dynamic range these new towers seem to have more than enough where it counts. When crossed over to the subs they sound every bit as capable as the Ultras. Even full range they're no joke, but that is where the Ultras pull ahead. The Sierras have no problems filling the room with decent bass, but the Ultras are definitely more capable of rattling the room, push come to shove. I hardly ever got into that tho, because I'm always using my subs so the deeper extension of the Ultras was going to waste anyway.

I've gotten pretty good using REW and the mini to dial my bass in and I feel like I wanna tackle the rest of the FR using the app with ratbuddyssey. If I can get that figured out and get good results I might pull the mini altogether. I shot Peng a pm to see if he's available to help get me started. I managed to get ratbuddyssey downloaded and pulled up my ady file, but that's as far as I got. I have no idea what I'm doing after that!

Oh, imaging. Holy crap do these towers have precise imaging! It's so good I'm thinking about going phantom mode and use my Sierra 2s as surrounds.