JBL Studio 530 and My Grand Atmos Experiment

[Danzilla31]

Hey Bud!
In my room, the distance between TF an TB/RH is about 11'.
If you go back to the Photos, that is the Red to the Blue dots.
And here with some measurements added:
View attachment 55104

Should I perhpas pull TF back to the 45" location?
A little trickier in execution, but I think I can do it.

You could do that keeping it at 35 and keeping them at 45 should work really good either way.

Your at 11 ft but you'll be in the middle I don't think your coverage will be that big of a hole

In my old house I was sitting 13 feet back 17 feet to work with the top Fronts and top backs in the right angles and me in between overhead sounds were perfect I did not need a top middle

Plus how would you mount them in your room?
Thats where thr ceiling and loft are at there highest right? It would be a night mare

 

[ryanosaur]

You could do that keeping it at 35 and keeping them at 45 should work really good either way.

Your at 11 ft but you'll be in the middle I don't think your coverage will be that big of a hole

In my old house I was sitting 13 feet back 17 feet to work with the top Fronts and top backs in the right angles and me in between overhead sounds were perfect I did not need a top middle

Plus how would you mount them in your room?
Thats where thr ceiling and loft are at there highest right? It would be a night mare

Top middle ATmos, not VOG single in the middle for Auro... so they would still be on wall as in that photo with Dots right over the window curtain.

I'm not hung up on it, I just wanns get the best starting point I can, and IF it comes to an upgrade later, where does that go...

I'm not really into wides... don't have a good place for them. Besides, with my mains and surrounds being very wide-dispersion, I get a pretty sick soundfield on the bed layer.

 

[Danzilla31]

Top middle ATmos, not VOG single in the middle for Auro... so they would still be on wall as in that photo with Dots right over the window curtain.

I'm not hung up on it, I just wanns get the best starting point I can, and IF it comes to an upgrade later, where does that go...

I'm not really into wides... don't have a good place for them. Besides, with my mains and surrounds being very wide-dispersion, I get a pretty sick soundfield on the bed layer.

If your not into widespread try top front and top back first. Then go to tip middle only if you think you need it. Don't forget more speakers means a pre pro or avr with extra channels and processing

That's always costing a lot more money

 

[ryanosaur]

That's always costing a lot more money

Yup... that's why it's planning.
The HTP-1 is looking like a dead beast. I heard some rumors that there were some factory problems. Also DTSX Pro and HDMI 2.1 have been promised but not delivered. Monolith has been dead quiet about the HTP while releasing other products. Who knows.
Hoping to see a refresh of the Marantz flagships, and the JBL SDP-58 and the Anthem AVM 90 are tempting AF if I score a winning lottery ticket.

Anyway, as I said, it's all about getting the best bang for the buck now, with an eye on the future as well.

 

[Verdinut]

Yup... that's why it's planning.
The HTP-1 is looking like a dead beast. I heard some rumors that there were some factory problems. Also DTSX Pro and HDMI 2.1 have been promised but not delivered. Monolith has been dead quiet about the HTP while releasing other products. Who knows.
Hoping to see a refresh of the Marantz flagships, and the JBL SDP-58 and the Anthem AVM 90 are tempting AF if I score a winning lottery ticket.

Anyway, as I said, it's all about getting the best bang for the buck now, with an eye on the future as well.

Why not trying to get a Denon AVR-X3700H if you can find one and use it as a pre-pro for a little while? Maybe it doesn't have enough channels?

 

[ryanosaur]

OK...
So one more photo with a different look at the installation range.
Solid Ovals are so far the recommended locations.
Open ovals are possible other locations.
A few measurements @Danzilla31 asked about are included.

Ultimate plan is to bring the Rears down to floor stands on the Bed Layer. This is a future upgrade. I will need to relocate my computer to do that.

@William Lemmerhirt , I know you are a dutiful family man... but I'm missing you, amigo.

 

[ryanosaur]

Why not trying to get a Denon AVR-X3700H if you can find one and use it as a pre-pro for a little while? Maybe it doesn't have enough channels?

Part of my plan is to upgrade my amps to Hypex across the board, and they prefer XLR connections. I can convert, but they lose a little performance that way. My Outlaws can take XLR connections, too.
Also, from my SR 6012, the Denon 3000 and 4000 levels are pretty lateral transitions.
I don't expect the Processor to sound better as is the common belief, rather I am looking for XLR Output and 3-4 Discrete Sub Channels. I would like to try Dirac, also.

My plan is to buy once for the next ten years once my criteria are met.

 

[Verdinut]

Part of my plan is to upgrade my amps to Hypex across the board, and they prefer XLR connections. I can convert, but they lose a little performance that way. My Outlaws can take XLR connections, too.
Also, from my SR 6012, the Denon 3000 and 4000 levels are pretty lateral transitions.
I don't expect the Processor to sound better as is the common belief, rather I am looking for XLR Output and 3-4 Discrete Sub Channels. I would like to try Dirac, also.

My plan is to buy once for the next ten years once my criteria are met.

I use RCA to XLR cables from my 3700H to the QSC DCA 1222s driving the 3 front channels. No background noise whatsoever. I even use Phoenix Euroblock connectors to connect the surround pre-outs to the 4 channel QSC amp without any noise problem.

 

[ryanosaur]

I use RCA to XLR cables from my 3700H to the QSC DCA 1222s driving the 3 front channels. No background noise whatsoever. I even use Phoenix Euroblock connectors to connect the surround pre-outs to the 4 channel QSC amp without any noise problem.

I'm not worried about noise. Peng and I had discussed this before and it is a matter of the incoming voltage fully powering the intake of the Hypex Amps. I know it is a minor detail.
A lot will really ride on how and when the HDMI fiasco gets sorted out. I am a gamer and will not buy until then. But Anthem is saying they are full bore with the AVM 90. There is no reason for any other company to lag behind at this point.
So I'll sit tight until the next round comes out and start laying my plans.

 

[Verdinut]

I'm not worried about noise. Peng and I had discussed this before and it is a matter of the incoming voltage fully powering the intake of the Hypex Amps. I know it is a minor detail.
A lot will really ride on how and when the HDMI fiasco gets sorted out. I am a gamer and will not buy until then. But Anthem is saying they are full bore with the AVM 90. There is no reason for any other company to lag behind at this point.
So I'll sit tight until the next round comes out and start laying my plans.

What is the input voltage sensitivity for the Hypex amps. I think it's just over 2 volts for full output, and the AVR-X3700H will output over 3 volts easily. I just don't understand where is the problem.

 

[ryanosaur]

What is the input voltage sensitivity for the Hypex amps. I think it's just over 2 volts for full output, and the AVR-X3700H will output over 3 volts easily. I just don't understand where is the problem.

It is not that there is a problem. Not being the engineer, all I can do is state what I’ve heard which is that the Hypex (andPurifi) amps are designed with balanced inputs in mind. If I follow correctly, that means through proper XLR they are receiving twice the voltage than an RCA will deliver.
I don’t understand the meaning behind it, Verdi, and I won’t pretend to.
When I get my Hypex chassis from Ghent, I will install the modules and use them with my current AVR. This will require an rca to xlr connection. When I have the chance to upgrade to a newer AVR/AVP, I will make the determination what is worth my investment.
Perhaps in that time as I experiment more with Class D, I will gain a better understanding of this specific point more than I grasp now.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

RynoDino! Hey brother, so sorry for the radio silence. From Friday until about now has been so highly condensed I can’t even see straight! Your thread blew up since I looked away. Wow!!!
I fully intend on sharing anything useful that I can. Gonna try and recap quickly here.

What is the height of the post it notes? I MIGHT use that height as an imaginary ceiling height. Then you can measure the distance from seated ear height to that height. Then go that distance fore and aft or the LP and you’ll have your 45°. I like this side height arrangement, but would move the surrounds forward:

You just have to try and imagine the slanted ceiling.
As for TM… I have to dig deep in my brain cell so bear with me here. Iirc one problem is content. Certain tracks like some from Disney are locked at 7.1.4. In that case, the TM’s won’t get used. In other cases like saving private ryanosaur, and RP-1, they have a 7.1.2 track. In that case the TF and TR won’t get used, only TM. Pretty sure you could use the core track and upmix it with DSU or DTSnx, but that takes the object based mix out of the equation. I’ve seen some guys prefer this method, but it’s bass-ackwards to me. Same with using Auromatic on Atmos tracks.
While I can definitely appreciate the interest in .6, I just don’t see the value when weighed against cost and effectiveness. This however is just MY opinion, so keep that in mind.
As far as for other brother pogey @Pogre, I’m conflicted. My former side surrounds were also huge, and capable. I loved them. But my compromise for installing Atmos was to put my sides IW. So I sold them and paid for my JBL IW’s. Personally I would do it again, and while generally speaking my old surrounds were better, I’m not sad about it anymore. Im reticent to recommend you do the same for a few reasons but just know I’m satisfied. I may start a thread about my sides since they spurred a slightly custom install and a possible new product. Or not…@ryanosaur remember the thread about the guy who wanted to angle his IC speakers? Yep. My adrenaline goes up every time I read a thread like that lol.
Again, sorry for the radio silence. I’ll go recap this thread and check back.
Oh. Daniel San! Also good info!!!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Just for @snakeeyes!

 

[ryanosaur]

@William Lemmerhirt
Welcome back to the world of the living. I figured you all froze to death on a Sunny Minne-sconsin afternoon.

Gimme a moment, I need to call off the Salvage crew I just hired.
BRB

 

[ryanosaur]

RynoDino! Hey brother, so sorry for the radio silence. From Friday until about now has been so highly condensed I can’t even see straight! Your thread blew up since I looked away. Wow!!!
I fully intend on sharing anything useful that I can. Gonna try and recap quickly here.

What is the height of the post it notes? I MIGHT use that height as an imaginary ceiling height. Then you can measure the distance from seated ear height to that height. Then go that distance fore and aft or the LP and you’ll have your 45°. I like this side height arrangement, but would move the surrounds forward:

You just have to try and imagine the slanted ceiling.
As for TM… I have to dig deep in my brain cell so bear with me here. Iirc one problem is content. Certain tracks like some from Disney are locked at 7.1.4. In that case, the TM’s won’t get used. In other cases like saving private ryanosaur, and RP-1, they have a 7.1.2 track. In that case the TF and TR won’t get used, only TM. Pretty sure you could use the core track and upmix it with DSU or DTSnx, but that takes the object based mix out of the equation. I’ve seen some guys prefer this method, but it’s bass-ackwards to me. Same with using Auromatic on Atmos tracks.
While I can definitely appreciate the interest in .6, I just don’t see the value when weighed against cost and effectiveness. This however is just MY opinion, so keep that in mind.
As far as for other brother pogey @Pogre, I’m conflicted. My former side surrounds were also huge, and capable. I loved them. But my compromise for installing Atmos was to put my sides IW. So I sold them and paid for my JBL IW’s. Personally I would do it again, and while generally speaking my old surrounds were better, I’m not sad about it anymore. Im reticent to recommend you do the same for a few reasons but just know I’m satisfied. I may start a thread about my sides since they spurred a slightly custom install and a possible new product. Or not…@ryanosaur remember the thread about the guy who wanted to angle his IC speakers? Yep. My adrenaline goes up every time I read a thread like that lol.
Again, sorry for the radio silence. I’ll go recap this thread and check back.
Oh. Daniel San! Also good info!!!

Post 68, 79, and the photo above on this page all have the most up to date info. Of course, you should still read it all in it's entirety so as not to miss the 'Zilla's advice.

I'm gonna call the center of the Speaker Mount at 86" H with the mid point of the Speaker then being 91" H, aimed at LP.

I may be able to push it a little higher but won't know until I do some exploratory drilling.

So the money question is, if I do expand and add an extra pair of Speakers... would you say FH or TM as the possible best bet?
I get this is speculation.

If you say Top Middle, it makes sense to target the 35º angle (TF) I think and get just a hair more separation between those possible channels.
On the other hand, if you say Front Height, then maybe pushing TF back to 45º makes more sense.

This isn't about jamming Speakers where they don't belong. There are many folk that swear by .6 and even more...
I'm just trying to gauge where the best opportunities may lie. Hence, make that upgrade later this year or next that much easier to integrate.

I want to be the smiling boy in your drawing to Friend @snakeeyes !

 

[ryanosaur]

Setting up to do the Hardware install on the Speakers themselves. Part of me really wants to cover the port and balance the load a little more with the bracket.
Four threaded inserts should hold fine: I had this with the AAs and those are 15#ers. If I were building these from scratch I would rig T-nuts from the inside so they aren't just holding to the little thread-teeth of the insert.

Anyway... Progress will be slow as I layout the drill points on the cabinets and then need to confirm wall placement and make certain there are no surprises waiting for me in the Wall Hardware placement.

Considering a safety cable for these...

 

[snakeeyes]

Just looking at that picture one last time. One thing to consider is moving your listening position forward a couple feet. Not sure it helps though with the window so close to the side speaker. Just wondering if that improves any angles.

 

[ryanosaur]

Just looking at that picture one last time. One thing to consider is moving your listening position forward a couple feet. Not sure it helps though with the window so close to the side speaker. Just wondering if that improves any angles.

Too much forward puts me right in the center of the room and in an equilateral triangle with my mains (which I am not a fan of). I have been very careful about that. I thought about going back to a 7.5' listening distance...
can't say that has made any difference though. The 1 foot I operate in has been pretty good for acoustic performance, though.

Angles... It would change then a little, but what would be best is dropping the floor by a foot or two and tearing out the wall between my room and the next... OH! and adding another two feet or so outwards.
Easy, ya?

 

[snakeeyes]

Too much forward puts me right in the center of the room and in an equilateral triangle with my mains (which I am not a fan of). I have been very careful about that. I thought about going back to a 7.5' listening distance...
can't say that has made any difference though. The 1 foot I operate in has been pretty good for acoustic performance, though.

Angles... It would change then a little, but what would be best is dropping the floor by a foot or two and tearing out the wall between my room and the next... OH! and adding another two feet or so outwards.
Easy, ya?

Sure and surround speakers in your closet after removing the doors. LOL

 

[ryanosaur]

Sure and surround speakers in your closet after removing the doors. LOL

(That's the back wall I want to tear out into the next room. )