In-wall rear surround recommendations

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes, I was suggesting them for in wall use because it seemed that the aesthetics of having them in wall was quite important to mossman.

I didn’t follow your link as I was quite busy, but I’m assuming it was for the c34e’s.
I use them in my ceiling as Top fronts and rears. They are fantastic. The baffle is about 15° and would probably work well as you suggested. They even have aimable tweeters, which I’ve never found useful, but others have. I actually used them as mains in my bedroom 5.1 for a while. They are fantastic speakers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

By higher, you mean 2ft to 3ft above ear level, correct?

I know covered this before but yep. More like 3’. Or about 5’-6’ above the floor.

 

[mossman77]

I didn’t follow your link as I was quite busy, but I’m assuming it was for the c34e’s.
I use them in my ceiling as Top fronts and rears. They are fantastic. The baffle is about 15° and would probably work well as you suggested. They even have aimable tweeters, which I’ve never found useful, but others have. I actually used them as mains in my bedroom 5.1 for a while. They are fantastic speakers.

I think they're a tad too deep for a 2x4 wall though. Could add a 1" spacer ring though.

 

[Gmoney]

Yes, those are along the lines of what I was thinking. They might be a good solution for you.

This is the first thing you see when you walk in my front door, lol.

View attachment 34464

The door is immediately to the right. In fact you can see the knob reflected in the speaker. I'm guessing this type of setup would be a no-go for you.

Tower of power! very nice Pogre!

 

[mossman77]

So I've decided to take the advice and return the XPA-3 amp. The SR5012 internal amp is plenty for my setup. I'll use some of the refund money to get some nice surrounds

 

[DigitalDawn]

@DigitalDawn might have some options for you. I think she specializes in in-ceiling/wall speakers.

Thanks Pogre.

Hey Mossman, what's your surround speaker budget?

 

[mossman77]

Thanks Pogre.

Hey Mossman, what's your surround speaker budget?

I purchased a pair of the DefTech SR9040 surrounds yesterday evening, but they can easily be returned. I'm open for other suggestions if you have something better in mind for my room configuration.

 

[mossman77]

I purchased a pair of the DefTech SR9040 surrounds yesterday evening, but they can easily be returned. I'm open for other suggestions if you have something better in mind for my room configuration.

Just picked up the SR9040s and will install them this evening. As far as placement, it is my understanding that they should ideally be the same distance from the LP as the front speakers are. However, that will not be possible. I can space each one a max of about 6ft from the LP whereas the front speakers are 11 ft. I'm assuming my receivers room correction feature will take care of this by adding some delay to the surrounds? If so, would it be better to move the surrounds in closer to the LP so the speakers are aimed closer to the ear? The farther I space them apart the more they will be aimed towards the center of the room and away from the LP.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’d still go as far as I could. The off axis response shouldn’t suffer much as the angle will still be very close and might help with localization.
And no, you don’t have to make consideration to how far apart the mains are.

 

[mossman77]

I’d still go as far as I could. The off axis response shouldn’t suffer much as the angle will still be very close and might help with localization.
And no, you don’t have to make consideration to how far apart the mains are.

Sorry, I meant distance from fronts to LP, not distance between fronts. Regardless, sounds like I should locate the surrounds as far from the LP as possible, which will be about 6ft from SL to LP and SR to LP.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Sorry, I meant distance from fronts to LP, not distance between fronts. Regardless, sounds like I should locate the surrounds as far from the LP as possible, which will be about 6ft from SL to LP and SR to LP.

Gotcha. YeH, that will be just fine.

 

[mossman77]

Picked up the surrounds last night and hooked them up temporarily. Put them 6 ft off the floor (70" to the tweeter to be exact, which is the same height as my front channel tweeters), and they are spaced 12'-6" apart, which is as far as I could practically space them. I haven't run Audyssey yet, but things are sounding pretty good. Here are a couple pics of my living room. It should become obvious why floor standers just wouldn't work in my space. Added benefit of the bipolar SR9040s is the outward facing speakers face into my dining room and my foyer, which I like. Music while you're eating and in your face when you enter the front door

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Love the driftwood! Is that tank acrylic?

Oh yeah, speakers look good too! Lol

 

[mossman77]

Love the driftwood! Is that tank acrylic?

Oh yeah, speakers look good too! Lol

Yes, it is. Custom 1/2" acrylic corner tank and my daughter found that piece of driftwood while hiking in rural Maryland. Awesome piece.

Thanks! I like them.

 

[mossman77]

Pardon my laziness, but someone made a comment about perhaps needing a second sub to prevent localization. I'm finding the need to turn the gain up on my sub to get the power I want, which is having a localizing effect. Is the purpose of getting a second sub so the pair collectively give me the bass I want but split the bass between the two so neither is localized? If so, makes sense. If I got a second sub, would it need to be placed more or less opposite the existing one?

 

[ryanosaur]

I don’t remember what you are using, but judging by the photos you have some pretty serious open room volume. Multiple subs will make a more even bass response in the space. The size of the sub and it’s output should match the space. (Read the Bassaholics info here at AH as a good primer.)
In short, if your sub is slightly underpowered for the space and you are running it hot to compensate, I would expect you might be able to start noticing it more.
Adding subs: they should ideally be matching subs, and better would be matching subs well suited to the space.
There is a lot of opinion and personal preference for placement. I subscribe to the school of using the sub crawl to find the best acoustic spots in the room, preferably asymmetric placement of multiple subs, then backing those up with measurements.
Others like symmetry and front wall loading, corner loading, 1/4 wall, 1/2 wall... etc. I prefer my subs be away from my mains.
Many ways to go about it. In the end, learning about your rooms acoustics and working with them will get you further.

 

[mossman77]

Audyssey actually attenuates the sub gain a few dB, so apparently it is adequate for the space. I think the primary reason is due to the LP being against a wall and under a flat ceiling. The sounds waves resonate in that area. It isn't nearly as loud if I'm standing in the center of the room where the ceiling is vaulted. The one sub is plenty loud enough, but like I said, I am able to localize it when I want to increase the gain for certain content.
Sounds like a second identical sub is the way to go then. I'll check out that primer.

 

[2channel lover]

I'll contact them to see what they say. I would tuck them up in the corner between the ceiling and wall if I went that route. I guess I'm confused then as to why most diagrams I look at have the surrounds pretty much directly to the left/right of the MLP. The SBL and SBR are behind the MLP. That's why I figured my proposed positioning would be fine. Again, I have no experience in dealing with surround.

Maybe go with in-ceiling surrounds and place them closer to the wall so at least they are at or slightly behind ear position? Except then I'd get reflections off the wall.

Understand with surround, you have some leeway. For the side surrounds, ideally they should be slightly behind the MLP, slightly above ear height. Lately, I'm using my old floorstanding B&W as surrounds. they are to the side and slightly behind the MLP, but they are not high enough. I've thought about building a 12" tall bass to sit them on, but so far the surrounds work fine so I've been that motived to build anything.

I know you didn't want on wall speakers, but a low profile speaker could work.

Something like this...Kef

T101 Ultra Thin Home Theater Surround Sound Speakers | KEF Direct

As one of the world's thinnest speakers, the T101 ultra-thin satellite speaker pair combines several landmark innovative driver technologies incorporated into cabinets only 35mm thin. This speaker is designed to be mounted on the wall (hardware included), on its included desk stands or on T...

us.kef.com

 

[Pogre]

Pardon my laziness, but someone made a comment about perhaps needing a second sub to prevent localization. I'm finding the need to turn the gain up on my sub to get the power I want, which is having a localizing effect. Is the purpose of getting a second sub so the pair collectively give me the bass I want but split the bass between the two so neither is localized? If so, makes sense. If I got a second sub, would it need to be placed more or less opposite the existing one?

I saw your pics an have had some conversations with you about that sub. More than one of us told you it's too small. It is not a big enough sub for your space. Period.

Yes a second one will help, but this.

I'm finding the need to turn the gain up on my sub to get the power I want

Tells me another story.

 

[mossman77]

I saw your pics an have had some conversations with you about that sub. More than one of us told you it's too small. It is not a big enough sub for your space. Period.

Yes a second one will help, but this.

Tells me another story.

Sorry, I misspoke. What I meant to say is sometimes I want more bass during certain programming, and the sub becomes localized when I turn it up past a certain level (understandably). So I was basically asking if getting a second sub would alleviate this problem.